Baine Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Kaladin vs. Wax and Wayne; who would win? Assume that Kaladin has a pouch of infused spheres and has sworn two oaths. Let's say that he only has a regular spear, no Shardblades. Syl is still there, but she can't turn into a Blade. Wax and Wayne have a reasonable, but finite, amount of bullets and metals and Feruchemy stores. The way I see it, Kaladin has more power, but he'll run out of Stormlight before W&W run out of metals if he does anything other than keep it in for strength. Feel free to tweak the rules a bit if you feel like it! I'm most interested in your thoughts and speculation! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Though I prefer Kaladin, I believe Wax and Wayne would win, because in the time bubble, you can't leave, so gravitational lashings would be of less use. Wax would be able to nullify some effect of gravitational lashings by making himself lighter, as well as could just push Kaladin's spear away, giving Kaladin almost nothing to fight with. Of course, Wax and Wayne's guns wouldn't be as useful either because of reverse lashings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Well, if Kaladin only has a regular spear, Wax can pull on it and really get Kaladin at a disadvantage. Now he has to improvise by finding a weapon that doesn't contain metal. Add that to the disadvantage of facing two skilled opponents together, and I'm thinking he's in a bit of trouble. On the other hand, I think his powers are a bit more versatile than W&W. He can heal, and lash things in all different directions, and use stormlight to enhance his battle reflexes. And he's really good at combat, so it's not something that's easy to call either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baine Posted November 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Ooh, I hadn't thought about the spearhead, but a full lashing to the spear might do the trick. Alternatively, Kal could have an obsidian speartip. That's not very likely, though. How much force would it take to break off a metal speartip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneSpren Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wax vs Kaladin makes me unsure, but both Wax and Wayne at once makes me think the duo would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Ooh, I hadn't thought about the spearhead, but a full lashing to the spear might do the trick. Alternatively, Kal could have an obsidian speartip. That's not very likely, though. How much force would it take to break off a metal speartip? Well iirc spear shafts were about 1" in diameter of a hard wood. That's not easy to break but it's wouldn't be that hard either. I use a cane in real life and I have broken one that was wooden by accident and it had a 1" diameter, it took quite a bit of force but that would be fairly common in a fight and easily done purposely by a stormlight fueled Kaladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 As soon as Wayne comes close enough to use a Time Bubble, Wayne dies. Remember that the Bubble collapses if Wayne exits, so all Kaladin would have to do is lash Wayne straight upwards, thereby removing the bubble and sending Wayne up 300ft. Kaladin would then just need to distract Wax long enough for Wayne to impact the ground. (Roughly 15 seconds? Maybe a bit less?) So really, the question is IMO "who would win between Wax and Kaladin"? This one depends a great deal on how much each knows about the other's powers, so I'd be inclined to say Wax would win simply because he would be more likely to study Kaladin's capabilities and limitations, and come up with a way to drain away Kaladin's non-renewable Stormlight using his (somewhat) renewable Feruchemy, then take down a weakened Kaladin using his Allomancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 As soon as Wayne comes close enough to use a Time Bubble, Wayne dies. Remember that the Bubble collapses if Wayne exits, so all Kaladin would have to do is lash Wayne straight upwards, thereby removing the bubble and sending Wayne up 300ft. Kaladin would then just need to distract Wax long enough for Wayne to impact the ground. (Roughly 15 seconds? Maybe a bit less?) So really, the question is IMO "who would win between Wax and Kaladin"? This one depends a great deal on how much each knows about the other's powers, so I'd be inclined to say Wax would win simply because he would be more likely to study Kaladin's capabilities and limitations, and come up with a way to drain away Kaladin's non-renewable Stormlight using his (somewhat) renewable Feruchemy, then take down a weakened Kaladin using his Allomancy. You know, this brings up an interesting thought to this. If a radiant is full of stormlight is their healing as fast as a double gold or slower? If Wax was able to fire an aluminum bullet right into Kaladin's brain, would he die or would he react like Miles. If he reacts like Miles and they're fighting outside Wax and Wayne don't stand a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 You know, this brings up an interesting thought to this. If a radiant is full of stormlight is their healing as fast as a double gold or slower? If Wax was able to fire an aluminum bullet right into Kaladin's brain, would he die or would he react like Miles. If he reacts like Miles and they're fighting outside Wax and Wayne don't stand a chance. I don't know where it is ATM, but I've seen a WoB that says all of the extreme-end healings (Full Stormlight, Max Gold, Returned Miracle) work the same by basically ignoring the normal Physical and putting the Spiritual in direct control of the Physical... but only for so long as the Investiture lasts. It's why Kaladin can heal the unhealable and TLR could survive having his head removed: the Physical didn't matter, so the Spiritual fixed it. As for an Aluminum bullet... Aluminum isn't Investiturically (is that a word?) inert. It's immune to Allomancy, but Feruchemy isn't affected, so I doubt Stormlight would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 There's literally no way for aluminum properties to interrupt feruchemy at all though. Not a very good example. It definitely isn't inert to everything, since it can be burned and stored in, used for spikes too probably. But it does do weird things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 There's literally no way for aluminum properties to interrupt feruchemy at all though. Not a very good example. It definitely isn't inert to everything, since it can be burned and stored in, used for spikes too probably. But it does do weird things. Aluminum can be directly Stored into and Tapped later. If Aluminium messed with Feruchemy, that would be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Wayne would be pretty useless in this fight, his preferred tactic of getting into melee range works mostly because people in AoL times are used to fighting at range with guns, Kal is a master of the spear so as soon as Wayne closed in to try to take him out, Kal would probably stab him a few times, be surprised when he heals, maybe take a couple of hits but ultimately kill Wayne pretty easily.Wax vs. Kal is interesting, I'm kind of inclined to give the win to Wax, he has a gun, and a bullet is in flight for far less time than an arrow is so gravity wouldn't affect it much, particularly a shot at short-mid range, so a Reverse Lashing wouldn't do much. Also, Kal wouldn't know what a gun is and wouldn't recognize the threat it poses so he'd probably take a few shots before he realized to dodge it and Wax is used to fighting thugs whose abilties are pretty similar to a Stormlight-enhanced Radiant other than Radiants rapid-healing.I imagine Wax would just keep it to a fight at range where he has the advantage, if Kal Lashes towards him Wax can Push his way back to keep it that way so I'd say Wax. Aluminum can be directly Stored into and Tapped later. If Aluminium messed with Feruchemy, that would be impossible. It can still be burned too, so that doesn't quite follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 5, 2015 Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 Aluminum can be directly Stored into and Tapped later. If Aluminium messed with Feruchemy, that would be impossible. Thanks for . . . repeating what I said. Consider me somewhat confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I thought aluminum was in fact a nullifier for most forms of Investiture - or at the very least Allomancy and Forgery (under the name of "ralkalest"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdGen Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks for . . . repeating what I said. Consider me somewhat confused. Thanks for . . . repeating what I said. Consider me somewhat confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I thought aluminum was in fact a nullifier for most forms of Investiture - or at the very least Allomancy and Forgery (under the name of "ralkalest"). #6 on this list. http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27aluminum%27 Aluminum has some weirdness attached to it in other Investiture, not necessarily nullification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Assuming Kaladin can dispatch Wayne quickly (stick him to a wall) I think he would beat Wax as well. Being able to pull bullets to a shield of some kind (kind of like a lurcher) would be very useful. The hand to hand combat and warrior experience is what tilts the scales in Kaladins direction for me. While Wax does have great fighting instincts Kaladin can see the battlefield very clearly in all of his fights even when at a huge disadvantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Assuming Kaladin can dispatch Wayne quickly (stick him to a wall) I think he would beat Wax as well. Being able to pull bullets to a shield of some kind (kind of like a lurcher) would be very useful. The hand to hand combat and warrior experience is what tilts the scales in Kaladins direction for me. While Wax does have great fighting instincts Kaladin can see the battlefield very clearly in all of his fights even when at a huge disadvantage. Bullets are in the air for too little time for gravity to affect them much, a Reverse Lashing would be no where near as useful against a bullet as it is against an arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Bullets are in the air for too little time for gravity to affect them much, a Reverse Lashing would be no where near as useful against a bullet as it is against an arrow. An impenetrable Shardshield on the other hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessFox Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Bullets are in the air for too little time for gravity to affect them much, a Reverse Lashing would be no where near as useful against a bullet as it is against an arrow. Why would you say that? In real life bullet drop is an accepted reality for any firearm. See below. Bullet Drop – All objects are subject to gravity. Objects not supported physically will begin to accelerate towards the earth regardless of their velocities in any direction. The second a bullet leaves the barrel gravity grabs at it with its grubby little gravity hands and starts to drag it towards terra firma. Words bolded because... well gravity hands just sounds perfect in this situation =) Taken from https://canadianshooter.wordpress.com/2-sight-alignment-with-pistols/ Gravity 100% affects bullets in real life and a reverse lashing increases gravity so that should not be a problem. If you are arguing the speed of a bullet is too fast for Kaladain I also disagree. If a Lurcher with no additional powers has enough time to pull a bullet toward an object I think Kaladin has enough time to reverse lash it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well time is one factor but I never said it isn't affected by gravity, just that its motion is so fast that it doesn't make all that much of a difference, it's in the air for a far shorter time and so gravity has less time to act upon it and so it travels a shorter distance, the same Reverse Lashing that pulls an arrow straight into a shield would still cause a bullet to veer off-course but not by as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yea. I'm going to give the win to W&W here. Kaladin has no idea what a gun does, so all Wax has to do is send Wayne to distract him and boom boom boom Kaladin is dead. Stormlight might be good at healing but 3 bullets to the head and Kaladin is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Basically, they fight until everyone involved runs out of supplies, then they somehow manage to talk it out, then go beat up Hoid. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Basically, they fight until everyone involved runs out of supplies, then they somehow manage to talk it out, then go beat up Hoid. Why Hoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Why Hoid? Yeah, why would someone beat up their own carriage driver? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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