Aonic Alphabet

[Javapython_]

The aons were based on hangul, the korean writing system. If you don't know about it go check the wikipedia page here:www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

 

I think Aons are an alphabet like hangul, with each symbol representing a collection of letters.

 

Each Aon is di-syllabic and has two short vowels(A,E,I,O but no U) so it shouldn't be to hard to figure out.

 

I'm going to do this with out the chasm line, though that brings up a question for another day: Why is the chasm line part of AonAon and not just some "earth" or "physical"

 

Aon Aon is two lines and a dot this represents A, O and N probably in the order drawn, which is

 

A-top line first,

O-Curved side line drawn second

N-center dot drawn last

 

Thus far I haven't made much progress in finding a pattern, but I believe lines of symmetry are also important.

Hopfully you guys can figure this out better than I have so far.

[Young Bard]

Do we have comfirmation about the Hangul thing? Or is that a guess. I've never heard that before. I know he lived in Korea as a missionary for a while, and it is quite possible he was subconsciously influenced, but I've never read anything that mentioned his source of inspiration.

 

Major Elantris Spoilers:

Also, you do know that Aon Aon is based of the geography of Elantris, don't you? Top line = Coast, Side line = Atad Mountains, and Dot = Lake Alonoe. So the Chasm line, when it appeared, cause the geography to change, which meant the Aon needed to change as well.

 

All other Aon's are just several Aon Aon's arranged in a specific pattern, occasionally with a few extra lines or dots. Aon Edo, for instance, has 2 Aon Aons, one turned 180 degrees, and the two have their corners touching.

 

The only pattern correlation I can see is that they all have three letters (The ones with 'sh' in them have 4, but Brandon has said that Sh is a single letter in Elantrian.)

Edited November 1, 2015 by TheYoungBard

[WeiryWriter]

@TheYoungBard, yes it is confirmed.  Brandon's speech during the Shadows of Self tour (of which there are several videos/recordings of) actually touches on it.
 
Unfortunately Javapython_, the thing is that you've got things a little backwards.  Brandon did base the Aons and the writing system on the relationship between Hangul and Chinese characters, but in this metaphor the Aons are the Chinese characters. 

[Young Bard]

That makes sense, actually. Chinese began as a pictorial language, so it makes sense that the Aon Aon & Rao would be based on the picture of the land. It doesn't really explain any of the other Aon's, though.

[WeiryWriter]

TheYoungBard, this is the Elantris sub-forum, you don't need to be putting things in spoiler tags.

[Landis963]

That makes sense, actually. Chinese began as a pictorial language, so it makes sense that the Aon Aon & Rao would be based on the picture of the land. It doesn't really explain any of the other Aon's, though.

 

As far as I can tell, Aon Rao isn't based on the land, beyond the base Aon Aon that is.  (Remember, Elantris was created in the Aon's image, not the other way around)  Aons that communicate concepts that would appear in nature (wood, water, etc.) would be based on the land, and would have components that are also based on the land (e.g. the squiggle that appears in the aon for Water, the three circles in the bottom half of the aon for Wood, etc.).

[Javapython_]

Do we have comfirmation about the Hangul thing? Or is that a guess. I've never heard that before. I know he lived in Korea as a missionary for a while, and it is quite possible he was subconsciously influenced, but I've never read anything that mentioned his source of inspiration.

 

Major Elantris Spoilers:

Also, you do know that Aon Aon is based of the geography of Elantris, don't you? Top line = Coast, Side line = Atad Mountains, and Dot = Lake Alonoe. So the Chasm line, when it appeared, cause the geography to change, which meant the Aon needed to change as well.

 

All other Aon's are just several Aon Aon's arranged in a specific pattern, occasionally with a few extra lines or dots. Aon Edo, for instance, has 2 Aon Aons, one turned 180 degrees, and the two have their corners touching.

 

The only pattern correlation I can see is that they all have three letters (The ones with 'sh' in them have 4, but Brandon has said that Sh is a single letter in Elantrian.)

Yeah I know, but what was so important about the chasm that it had to be added to AonAon and not just a few? From what I understand of you reasoning, AonAon should be every Aon overlapping each other, rather than the base of each one.

[hypatia]

With the systematic of Hangul the chasm line could be changing the sound of a letter and so the whole word.

Hangul has a form of such a line:

Basically there are two vokals -

| sound "ee" like in "tree"

- sound "oo" like in "brook"

And there is a little line which changes the sound of - as an example - | : with it on the left, "ee" becomes "u" like in "up", on the right we get "a" like in "far".

Adding this line changes most of the basic letters.

Now the Moon Sceptre as a "Rosetta Stone" is starting to make more sense - it looks like the communication with the Dor bases on different writing systems/languages.

[Javapython_]

With the systematic of Hangul the chasm line could be changing the sound of a letter and so the whole word.

Hangul has a form of such a line:

Basically there are two vokals -

| sound "ee" like in "tree"

- sound "oo" like in "brook"

And there is a little line which changes the sound of - as an example - | : with it on the left, "ee" becomes "u" like in "up", on the right we get "a" like in "far".

Adding this line changes most of the basic letters.

Now the Moon Sceptre as a "Rosetta Stone" is starting to make more sense - it looks like the communication with the Dor bases on different writing systems/languages.

Brandon had a guide on how to speak Aonic names 

http://brandonsanderson.com/books/elantris/elantris/elantris-pronunciation-guide/

so would the chasm line effect the ancient pronunciation? Especially since all that seems to matter is the shape .

ChayShan, AonDor, Forgery, and Dakhor all seem to only require shapes, so while I like the idea of the moon scepter as a translating device, it doesn't quite make sense. Especially since Aons are the only language yet known to access a shards power.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Javapython_

[Javapython_]

As far as I can tell, Aon Rao isn't based on the land, beyond the base Aon Aon that is.  (Remember, Elantris was created in the Aon's image, not the other way around)  Aons that communicate concepts that would appear in nature (wood, water, etc.) would be based on the land, and would have components that are also based on the land (e.g. the squiggle that appears in the aon for Water, the three circles in the bottom half of the aon for Wood, etc.).

According to the wiki, Aons weren't created by the people of Sel, but discovered. They and their meanings already existed and all are geographically based.

[hypatia]

I'm not sure, if there ever was a pronunciation - perhaps, but it's not an actual language. Mr Sanderson has spoken of the Rosetta Stone and this was the key to hieroglyphs, not the spoken egyptian language.

Only a writing system with the geography as the writing matrix and with the chasm line the Aons have to be modified to connect again with the new base. In every written language you need the same shape for letters to be able to communicate.

At the end of the book Raoden seems to recognize ancient Fjordell characters in the bones of one of the priests - we don't know this language, but it's although a writing system with access to the Dor.

I have to reread TES, but in Elantris people of all the three magical systems are starting to shine - Raoden - obviously - Shuden and Hrathen's arm, the one with the deformed form.

Personally I don't think it's impossible to "dance" a writing - not in a book from Brandon Sanderson.

[Javapython_]

I'm not sure, if there ever was a pronunciation - perhaps, but it's not an actual language. Mr Sanderson has spoken of the Rosetta Stone and this was the key to hieroglyphs, not the spoken egyptian language.

Only a writing system with the geography as the writing matrix and with the chasm line the Aons have to be modified to connect again with the new base. In every written language you need the same shape for letters to be able to communicate.

At the end of the book Raoden seems to recognize ancient Fjordell characters in the bones of one of the priests - we don't know this language, but it's although a writing system with access to the Dor.

I have to reread TES, but in Elantris people of all the three magical systems are starting to shine - Raoden - obviously - Shuden and Hrathen's arm, the one with the deformed form.

Personally I don't think it's impossible to "dance" a writing - not in a book from Brandon Sanderson.

 

I still don't see why the chasm would effect AonAon, yes it was a HUGE change in the geography, but if ever notable feature were part of AonAon it would be a lot more complicated. I feel like it was an actual language because the book the Raoden learns the most about the AonDor is written in AonDor. 

The magic is form based, the letter shape or in ChayShan body shape determine what form the Dor is channeled into

[Landis963]

Language-wise, the Chasm Line probably wouldn't be implemented, unless Raoden included it in his signature or something.  It's only when one tries to channel the Dor does it become strictly necessary to add the line.  

[ParadoxicalZen]

ChayShan is tricky as we've not seen much of Jindoeese culture, but given their history, they'll have their own ancient language similar to that of MaiPon.

 

And i wouldn't say the Aons + other symbols of Selish/Selian natives are a writing system, its more of symbol/form thing, which given Shuden's ChayShan martial art demonstration, fits quite well with that as each sequence of moves tells a story/command, similar to way the Aons can be programmed.

[Titan Arum]

As far as I can tell, Aon Rao isn't based on the land, beyond the base Aon Aon that is.  (Remember, Elantris was created in the Aon's image, not the other way around)  Aons that communicate concepts that would appear in nature (wood, water, etc.) would be based on the land, and would have components that are also based on the land (e.g. the squiggle that appears in the aon for Water, the three circles in the bottom half of the aon for Wood, etc.).

Actually, Aon Rao IS based on geographic characteristics, but man-made ones:

 

 

 

As you can see from this map of Elantris and Kae, the walls of Elantris mimic the shape of the coastline and mountain range while the temple/university in the middle mimics Lake Alonoe. The circles of Aon Rao are the four gate cities around Elantris: Kae, Toa, Ake, and Ato. The lines connecting the Aon Rao circles to the central shape are the roads from the four gate cities headed towards Elantris. Thus, it is land-based, and as Javapython_ says, the Aons were all discovered, not created by man, so they are location based. WoB has even stated that the magics of Sel are all location based. 

[WeiryWriter]

Actually, Aon Rao IS based on geographic characteristics, but man-made ones:

 

 

 

As you can see from this map of Elantris and Kae, the walls of Elantris mimic the shape of the coastline and mountain range while the temple/university in the middle mimics Lake Alonoe. The circles of Aon Rao are the four gate cities around Elantris: Kae, Toa, Ake, and Ato. The lines connecting the Aon Rao circles to the central shape are the roads from the four gate cities headed towards Elantris. Thus, it is land-based, and as Javapython_ says, the Aons were all discovered, not created by man, so they are location based. WoB has even stated that the magics of Sel are all location based. 

 

I think the point Landis is trying to make is that Elantris was built in the shape of Aon Rao, but that Aon Rao is not based on Elantris.  (We really don't know either way, though I'm inclined to agree).

[Titan Arum]

I think the point Landis is trying to make is that Elantris was built in the shape of Aon Rao, but that Aon Rao is not based on Elantris.  (We really don't know either way, though I'm inclined to agree).

I realize in retrospect that I didn't word what I was saying well. I was making several assumptions that I never stated including that Elantris and the four gate cities were not planned. My main reason to think this is that people should/would know, through historical records or word of mouth, that Elantris was shaped like Aon Rao if it was planned. I assume this because it was a huge surprise to Raoden that it looked like Aon Rao, thus I think it wasn't planned. 

 

However, maybe it was planned by the Elantrians who decided to withhold this information? Even if this is true, then just looking at a map (like the ones in the 10th anniversary) would make it clear that it was all shaped like Aon Rao. 

 

Maybe we're just meant to take this with a leap of faith, that nobody knew it was shaped like Aon Rao before. But I find this hard to do given my nature and the fact that Elantris had only fallen something like a decade before the book took place. 

 

Anyway my initial point isn't very good and poorly worded. I don't actually think Aon Rao was based upon Elantris, but that maybe by pure happenstance, when Elantris and the four gate cities were built, the aggregate took on the shape of Aon Rao. Granted, this is a stretch too, because statistically how could this be possible...unless it was shaped according to the Shards' desires. 

[Landis963]

I realize in retrospect that I didn't word what I was saying well. I was making several assumptions that I never stated including that Elantris and the four gate cities were not planned. My main reason to think this is that people should/would know, through historical records or word of mouth, that Elantris was shaped like Aon Rao if it was planned. I assume this because it was a huge surprise to Raoden that it looked like Aon Rao, thus I think it wasn't planned. 

 

However, maybe it was planned by the Elantrians who decided to withhold this information? Even if this is true, then just looking at a map (like the ones in the 10th anniversary) would make it clear that it was all shaped like Aon Rao. 

 

Maybe we're just meant to take this with a leap of faith, that nobody knew it was shaped like Aon Rao before. But I find this hard to do given my nature and the fact that Elantris had only fallen something like a decade before the book took place. 

 

Anyway my initial point isn't very good and poorly worded. I don't actually think Aon Rao was based upon Elantris, but that maybe by pure happenstance, when Elantris and the four gate cities were built, the aggregate took on the shape of Aon Rao. Granted, this is a stretch too, because statistically how could this be possible...unless it was shaped according to the Shards' desires. 

 

Why would they need to withhold it?  If someone was to take you on a tour of Elantris, back in its heyday, they'd probably proudly proclaim the fact that Elantris was designed like Aon Rao.  They'd probably even give a plausible reason why.  Of course, what they wouldn't proudly proclaim is that the shape of the city is a magic sigil that makes Elantrians the sparkle-gods they were always meant to be, but still.  (Assuming of course that our hypothetical docent would have made the connection in the first place)  Of course, this secret is blown wide open now, with the new chasm line causing the city to glow and its people to return to glittery godhood, but still.  

[Titan Arum]

I have no idea why they'd want to withhold it, other than the fact that scholars historically (in our world) did withhold information from the masses. I just suspect they DID withhold the information since, 10 years after the fall of Elantris, it appears nobody realized that Elantris and the surroundings were shaped like Aon Rao until Raoden saw it from the mountainside. 

[Landis963]

I have no idea why they'd want to withhold it, other than the fact that scholars historically (in our world) did withhold information from the masses. I just suspect they DID withhold the information since, 10 years after the fall of Elantris, it appears nobody realized that Elantris and the surroundings were shaped like Aon Rao until Raoden saw it from the mountainside. 

 

After the Elantrian's fall, the city regressed to just Kae and the central district of Elantris was repurposed as, essentially, a leper colony.  No one cared about the other 3 cities, not since they'd been abandoned.  Maybe it was seen as hubris, so subject to the taboos that stymied Sarene.  There are lots of ways the knowledge could have been disavowed or forgotten, despite the short time frame.  

[Titan Arum]

Landis, I completely disagree with you. People don't just forget something that they revere or is so culturally significant for some period of time. Unless there is a group actively trying to provide misleading information or stoke fear to change a viewpoint. 

 

In our world, the Chernobyl disaster occurred 29 years ago. Chernobyl was completely abandoned by humanity and now is overrun with wildlife. But we as a society have not forgotten, nor will we. We know what happened there and as a result we allow this history to dictate our future use of nuclear power, even though it has been proven to be very clean and generally very safe to use. (Fukushima doesn't count as a counterpoint to this because it was damaged in an earthquake/an outside force. Not by humans.) 

 

Basically, I find it hard to believe that information can be lost in only 10 years, especially something tied to a local religion or local deities. Even if that religion has fallen out of favor. Further, Raoden still knew what Aons look like and I assume other people in society do too, since their names are closely associated with Aons. Someone thus should have remembered, or known through observation, that the area was shaped like an Aon Rao because these symbols are still so relevant to society. 

[Bremen]

In our world, the Chernobyl disaster occurred 29 years ago. Chernobyl was completely abandoned by humanity 

It's funny you bring up Chernobyl.  How much do you really know about it?  For one the city of Chernobyl is not completely abandoned.  You're probably thinking of Pripyat.

 

People don't forget Elantris is there, how could they?  But why would they tell children that it's in the shape of Aon Rao?  What would be the point?  It wasn't until Raoden realized WHY the aons didn't work that it became important.

[Landis963]

It's funny you bring up Chernobyl.  How much do you really know about it?  For one the city of Chernobyl is not completely abandoned.  You're probably thinking of Pripyat.

 

People don't forget Elantris is there, how could they?  But why would they tell children that it's in the shape of Aon Rao?  What would be the point?  It wasn't until Raoden realized WHY the aons didn't work that it became important.

 

Arum still has a point in that it's only been 10 years since the Reod, which is less than a generation in which to forget that the shape of the city is important to the Elantrians' well-being.  

[Titan Arum]

It's funny you bring up Chernobyl.  How much do you really know about it?  For one the city of Chernobyl is not completely abandoned.  You're probably thinking of Pripyat.

 

People don't forget Elantris is there, how could they?  But why would they tell children that it's in the shape of Aon Rao?  What would be the point?  It wasn't until Raoden realized WHY the aons didn't work that it became important.

Fine, yes there are still some people living in Chernobyl and the Exclusion Zone (estimates of less than 300), but relative to the pre-disaster population (estimated to be 120,000) it's basically zero. So, semantics. But you get the point I was making, right?

 

On your second point, are you discounting visual learning in the pursuit of scholarship? If you're teaching kids about Aons and their shapes, wouldn't it make a great "field trip" to hike to the top of the mountains to show this real world equivalent to Aon Rao? Or at the least point it out on a map and then explain its importance? It'd be a great learning tool and one that a child would remember. 

 

My parents and teachers always strove to show us proof of things by giving us examples. It's how learning works. Otherwise we're all just drones who blindly accept things as they are. For example, I took a hydrology class in college where the professor took us on white water rafting trips to show us in nature/real life what we had learned in class. To this day I can still identify eddies, point bars, and other geological aspects of rivers when I'm on one; all because he showed it to me.

 

Also, I'm not saying people forgot Elantris is there. Of course they haven't forgotten about Elantris. I'm talking about Aons and how I find it implausible that nobody knew that Elantris and the area was shaped like Aon Rao. 

 

Ladris basically summed up my point well: 10 years is too short a time to simply forget things that are meaningful culturally.

[Landis963]

Maybe the information was disseminated that non-light Aons don't produce any effect?  Aon Ashe on the coal is just supposed to be a good-luck charm, and the Aon Omi pendants don't really produce any effect beyond the normal ones produced by advertising your faith.  That way, if anyone knew back then that it was shaped like Aon Rao, they would have discounted it because "everyone knows" that only the glowy ones work.  Of course, once the Reod happened, maybe belief in the magic power of Aons was shattered entirely, or relegated to the realm of nostalgia.  That would fit with Sarene's skepticism in the power of Aons, once Hrathen tossed her in there.