Why don't the Idrian Returned perform miracles?

[kroen]

This just occured to me during my second read through: If the Idrian Returned are going to die within a week anyway, why not help someone with a miracle?

[Yata]

Probably because with the Austre Dogma the manipulation of the Breath is a Taboo.
And therefore the Idrians doesn't know the right Command to give away their Breath, but I suppose that also if they know.  Both of Idrian Returned and "Random-Suffering-People" doesn't want the "miracle" because they see it like a Blasphemy.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Yata

[kroen]

But according to Austrism, Austre is the one that sends the Returned back. Why do the Idrians believe he does so if the only point is for them to die in a week? what sort of purpose it that? how does this bode with their religion?

Edited October 31, 2015 by kroen

[Yata]

Probably they see the "Returning" like:

Austre:"Ok fresh Deadman, I have a mission to you, you must X. But hurry you will die again in a week therefore if you finish your mission early you have extra free time before come back here".

[Corax]

I expect that they might, actually. Sure, some might simply die again without bestowing their Breath due to their religious prohibitions against transferring Breaths, but I think it's more likely that they do give up their Divine Breath to perform a miracle, they simply don't draw attention to themselves in doing so. It would be in keeping with Austre's teachings to work even the greatest of miracles with humility, and never draw attention to oneself in doing so.

[Landis963]

Eh, they probably find the nearest person who's at death's door, say the 8 magic words, and pop on back to the Spiritual Realm.  Any long-term accumulation of Breaths would be blasphemous to Austrism, as far as I understand it.  I suspect that they'll be far rarer, though, if only because Idrians given the chance to Return would probably turn down the opportunity.  

 

EDIT: Now that I think of it, they wouldn't know the 8 magic words to begin with, so there's that.  

Edited November 10, 2015 by Landis963

[soulcastJam]

Don't they believe that breath is part of your soul? Even if they returned they wouldn't want to give that up.

[Landis963]

Don't they believe that breath is part of your soul? Even if they returned they wouldn't want to give that up.  

 

That was basically my point.  If an Idrian accepted the opportunity to Return, it would be much, much harder for them to actually do the thing they were tasked to do.  

 

Let's enumerate these difficulties, shall we?  Assuming an Idrian (otherwise in the prime of their life) was killed by, idk, bandits, and Endowment showed them a bad future and gave them the chance to Return, like she did with Lightsong and presumably all the other Returned.  

 

The newly formed Idrian Returned, believing that Austre had sent them back for a reason and so trying to decide how best to use their newfound lease on life would need to:

1) find the scenario that Endowment had shown them,

2) without memories of their previous life to grant context,

3) within a week (because Austrism makes manipulation of Breath verboten, so no extra Breaths for you), and

4) without knowing the Command that would impart their divine Breath.  

 

The first is already needle-in-haystack enough for the Hallandren Returned, and they have people filing past 5 days a week during normal business hours presenting problems that a divine Breath would solve.  The third puts a hard limit on where exactly the scenario where their intervention is required can happen (Radius of just under 8 days travel from where they died, minus sleep time and "tell the relatives what happened to Burnie" time).  The fourth obviates any miraculous healing-type missions (like Lightsong's, and Mercystar's), while the second leaves them without any sort of direction ("You must have Returned so that Austre can make use of your skills at macrame!").  

 

An Idrian who noticed all these obstacles would balk at the sheer difficulty of the task (which is an entirely different breed of difficulty than just "it's boring and long and Idonwanna!", which most Idrians are immune to by default), and an Idrian who didn't might shrink away from becoming one of "those Hallandren monstrosities."  

[+Slowswift]

The Returned Breath isn't enough to give you Instinctive Command, is it?

[Yata]

The Returned Breath isn't enough to give you Instinctive Command, is it?

Nope, the Instinctive Command is an ability of the 6th elevation and the Returned are "only" to the Fifth.

 

Anyway a Returned can be send for purpose different that giving its breath. Maybe He can help someone physicaly or be a cataòyst of event.

[Landis963]

Nope, the Instinctive Command is an ability of the 6th elevation and the Returned are "only" to the Fifth.

 

Anyway a Returned can be send for purpose different that giving its breath. Maybe He can help someone physically or be a cata;yst of event.

 

Case in point; Blushweaver's "mission" was to die in front of Lightsong at the crucial moment.  

 

EDIT: Anyway, if someone is Returned, then they are basically sleeper agents for Endowment, set to "awaken" at the opportune moment to divert history one way or the other at the price of their lives.  In Warbreaker, those agents were Blushweaver ( dying by throat-slit to galvanize Lightsong's heroic sacrifice) and Lightsong (dying by giving up his divine Breath to heal Susebron's tongue).  If an Idrian decided to accept Endowment's offer and Return, that means that trouble is coming to Idris in a way that this person can stop by acting a specific way that will end in their death.  

Edited November 10, 2015 by Landis963

[Stormgate]

Sadly, I think that Idrian Returned are simply hopeful that they will be able to stop whatever it was before their week is up, or that they will somehow be able to get more Breaths.

[Landis963]

Sadly, I think that Idrian Returned are simply hopeful that they will be able to stop whatever it was before their week is up, or that they will somehow be able to get more Breaths.

 

"Getting more Breaths" would be violating the integrity of another person's soul, and you saw how Vivenna reacted to receiving Lemex's hoard, which means that stopping whatever it is before their week is up is the entire impetus for accepting the opportunity in the first place.  An impetus, it bears repeating, that they can't remember once they Return.

[WeiryWriter]

Case in point; Blushweaver's "mission" was to die in front of Lightsong at the crucial moment.  

 

EDIT: Anyway, if someone is Returned, then they are basically sleeper agents for Endowment, set to "awaken" at the opportune moment to divert history one way or the other at the price of their lives.  In Warbreaker, those agents were Blushweaver ( dying by throat-slit to galvanize Lightsong's heroic sacrifice) and Lightsong (dying by giving up his divine Breath to heal Susebron's tongue).  If an Idrian decided to accept Endowment's offer and Return, that means that trouble is coming to Idris in a way that this person can stop by acting a specific way that will end in their death.  

 

Actually no her mission was not to just die in front of Lightsong.  Brandon does comment on this in the annotations:

 

 

What did Blushweaver achieve? In fact, she Returned in the first place to be involved in this ending as well. One thing to note about the Returned coming back is that they do see the future, but when they Return, they aren’t guaranteed to be able to change anything. Before her Return, Blushweaver was a powerful merchant in the city, and very well known. She was assassinated after denouncing a group of dye merchants she’d worked with for their deceptive and criminal practices. Her testimony ended with them in jail, but it got her killed. That’s how she earned the title of Blushweaver the Honest (which, if you’ll remember, she eventually got changed to Blushweaver the Beautiful).

 

She Returned because she didn’t want T’Telir to fall to the invaders she saw taking it after Bluefingers and the others caused their revolt. That was why she gathered the armies. While she didn’t succeed in her quest as well as Lightsong did, she did help out quite a bit. I think she’s pleased, on the other side, with how things turned out.

[Landis963]

Actually no her mission was not to just die in front of Lightsong.  Brandon does comment on this in the annotations:

 

I had completely forgotten that particular tidbit.  Actually, that's very suggestive for how our hypothetical Idrian Returned would behave - They were brought back for a reason, and while they may not be able to tell you what that reason is, their instincts would retain the broad strokes of the solution to the problem they Returned to solve.