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Have Lirin and Hesina even tried to contact Kaladin after he joined the military?

In his own PoV, I think it's implied that neither have for some time, perhaps never in his entire military career, but in his earliest flashbacks, it is obvious that they both loved him very much. In fact, before Kaladin and Tien were recruited, his mother basically told him that he didn't have to follow his father's path and choose another career if that's what made him happy.

 

Sure, Kaladin may have disobeyed his father's wishes and disrupted his plans, but he is still as much their son as Tien is. No parent ever wants to see their kids die before them, not when your last conversation ended with bitter and angry words. So whatever the reason for their silence, Tien's death should be more than the incentive they needed to contact him, even if it's just to mourn his death together through letters. Unless they got real busy and popped out another one in the past five or six years, he is their last son. Plenty of men have joined the army and survived. He's also done very well for himself before the Amaram incident, youngest squadleader and all. There's no reason for them to completely ignore him as they did...

...Unless Tien's and Kaladin's recruitment into the military was not Roshone's final stroke.

As weak as Roshone is, he is still a brightlord, a cousin to a Shardbearer. What little power he has, he can still use to inflict a lot of damage if he wanted to do so. And the loss of his only son could be the last push he needed to dish out the hurt. Kaladin have suffered so much, and it chills my bones just to think of it, but could something have happened to his parents that prevented them from something as simple as responding to their son's letters? And if so, what does this mean for Kaladin as a character?

A part of me thinks that they're both alive and well, that Amaram decided to take it upon himself to protect/provide for them after the way he stabbed their son in the back, but this whole situation at Hearthstone stinks if you ask me.

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I never really thought about this too much. You have some interesting ideas here.

 

It wouldn't be cheap or easy to get letters to someone in the army.

 

 

He'd sent word to them via Amaram's scribes, a terse note that had cost him a week's wages. They knew he had failed, and they knew he didn't intend to return. There had been no reply.

They did have the spheres of course but they may not have at this point in time. Or something else could have happened to them.

 

Kaladin's phrasing suggests that he considered the message to be the last he would send, even when he sent it. So he was essentially cutting off contact at that point regardless of whether they replied. Maybe they knew this. Maybe not.

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I've thought about them a lot.  I doubt Amaram would have gotten in contact with them, but I'm sure they'll pop up eventually.  One theory that's been kicked around (By Gamma Fiend) is that Lirin will find his way to Mr. T's hospital.  I don't subscribe to that tho...  I think there will be a teary reunion that will break Kaladin's heart. 

 

Edit: Accredited Gamma Fiend

Edited by AG Rooster
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I've thought about them a lot.  I doubt Amaram would have gotten in contact with them, but I'm sure they'll pop up eventually.  One theory that's been kicked around is that Lirin will find his way to Mr. T's hospital.  I don't subscribe to that tho...  I think there will be a teary reunion that will break Kaladin's heart. 

 

 I think that Amaram, could use Kaladin parents in some way to blackmail Kal, like: 

 

"Tell someone that silly history of you defeating a Shardbear and whow knows what could happen to your parents".

 

Obvious he would see this as necessary evil and be reassured that this are correct by his stormwarden minion, but after Wok I see Amaram doing anything to achieve his goals.

 

Amaram is set to be one of Kaladin enemies in the last book. (Kaladin supposed must choose between honor and revenge) So putting some spicy in things for sure would help thick the plot. 

Edited by Natans
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Kaladin's phrasing suggests that he considered the message to be the last he would send, even when he sent it. So he was essentially cutting off contact at that point regardless of whether they replied. Maybe they knew this. Maybe not.

 

It was that last line that really stuck me as weird. It implies more that they could reply to him if they wanted to, not that he cut off all contacts. They did it, and we don't know why.

Kaladin likely only have to pay that much because he has to use scribes of a highlord so I don't think spheres is a factor here. His mother can read and write. At the very least, she could entrust her letter to another boy who's headed for Amaram's army and tell him to hand it to him.

 

 I think that Amaram, could use Kaladin parents in some way to blackmail Kal, like: 

 

"Tell someone that silly history of you defeating a Shardbear and whow knows what could happen to your parents".

 

Obvious he would see this as necessary evil and be reassured that this are correct by his stormwarden minion, but after Wok I see Amaram doing anything to achieve his goals.

 

Amaram is set to be one of Kaladin enemies in the last book. (Kaladin supposed must choose between honor and revenge) So putting some spicy in things for sure would help thick the plot. 

 

I hate Amaram so much for what he did to Kaladin, but I honestly don't think he's that bad. In a way, his actions made a twisted kind of sense. Amaram's last conversation with Kaladin seems to say that he was influenced into his decision by Restares. So he could very well be a good man who made the wrong choices for the right reasons. He does have a reputation as a fair and just lighteye that must have some truth to it.

The few must be sacrificed for the grand lie, only he left one loose thread who'll certainly come back to bite him squarely in the rear later. He may be a lighteye, but he stole a shardblade and a shardplate. Even by Alethi standards, that's a big no-no. My guess is that this rivalry between him and Kaladin will be settled by the end of the second book. Maybe third.

 

 

I've thought about them a lot.  I doubt Amaram would have gotten in contact with them, but I'm sure they'll pop up eventually.  One theory that's been kicked around is that Lirin will find his way to Mr. T's hospital.  I don't subscribe to that tho...  I think there will be a teary reunion that will break Kaladin's heart. 

 

Haha, if Kaladin had went to Kharbranth as his father planned, he would most likely have found out what Taravangian is doing with his patients and been killed for it. I think his recruitment into the military saved his life.

 

But I prefer the idea of a teary reunion over the one I have in mind, really.

Edited by mrwerd
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I hate Amaram so much for what he did to Kaladin, but I honestly don't think he's that bad. In a way, his actions made a twisted kind of sense. Amaram's last conversation with Kaladin seems to say that he was influenced into his decision by Restares. So he could very well be a good man who made the wrong choices for the right reasons. He does have a reputation as a fair and just lighteye that must have some truth to it.

The few must be sacrificed for the grand lie, only he left one loose thread who'll certainly come back to bite him squarely in the rear later. He may be a lighteye, but he stole a shardblade and a shardplate. Even by Alethi standards, that's a big no-no. My guess is that this rivalry between him and Kaladin will be settled by the end of the second book. Maybe third.

 

 

 The thing is when you pass the Moral Event Horizon acting in dubious way to get your chull of the line aren't a big deal.  Putting in sclae Kill at cold blood your savior and blackmail someone the first are must worse crime. So Restares could provide the motivation Amaram already showed his true color he culd veru easily blackmail Kaladin he inclusive already have Roshene perfectly poised to do the dirty work to him =)

Edited by Natans
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Based on the following interaction, I feel certain that we will see more of his parents. 
 

1. Are Kaladin's parents still alive, and if so, are they actually mad at him?

1. Yes, they are still alive. RAFO.

There are so many juicy things that Brandon can do...

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I've thought about them a lot.  I doubt Amaram would have gotten in contact with them, but I'm sure they'll pop up eventually.  One theory that's been kicked around is that Lirin will find his way to Mr. T's hospital.  I don't subscribe to that tho...  I think there will be a teary reunion that will break Kaladin's heart. 

ha! Yay, that's my theory! I know it's unlikely. But just imagine how hard that would be for Kaladin to swallow... his dad got all hardened and P-O'd at the world after his son died and his prodigious son left him for war, of all things. Lirin should be very heartbroken, and righteously.

So why would he not leave his town. There's nothing holding him there anymore, just memories and pain. So he goes to Kharbarnth. Goes to go do the good word. But then he notices as certain people are dying they make some weird sort of statements... or Death Chants! (buh buh buh).

Honestly. It's a long stretch. I highly doubt this is what actually happens, but I could totally see how it's possible for Lirin to end up with Mr. T. Just unlikely.

Fun theory, though. :D

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Amaram didn't even remember meeting Kaladin or why Kaladin enlisted in the army when he betrayed him. I doubt he'll be prepared to see Kaladin again or even remember the significance of Roshone's area. It'll be a long time before the idea to take advantage of Kaladin's parents even occurs to anyone.

Edited by Fistsofrage
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I feel Kaladin deciding not to return home to face his parents was his only real moral failing in the story.  Even if he choose not to take up surgeons training he could almost certainly re-enlist.  Granted given the time frame he would never have gotten the chance even if he had chosen to take the news of Tien's death personally instead of by letter.

 

That being said I also feel the Lirin carries a great deal of responsibility in Tien's fate as well as Kaladin's.  Not *fault* but responsibility.  In standing up to Roshone as he did he effectively put the town's welfare over that of his family.  He brought hostages to fortune into danger with him.  As the surgeon who has a responsibility to the town he was doing the right thing.  As a father with a responsibility to his family he failed.  :unsure:

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 I think that Amaram, could use Kaladin parents in some way to blackmail Kal, like: 

 

"Tell someone that silly history of you defeating a Shardbear and whow knows what could happen to your parents".

 

Obvious he would see this as necessary evil and be reassured that this are correct by his stormwarden minion, but after Wok I see Amaram doing anything to achieve his goals.

 

Amaram is set to be one of Kaladin enemies in the last book. (Kaladin supposed must choose between honor and revenge) So putting some spicy in things for sure would help thick the plot. 

 

He doesn't need to use Kaladin's parents, I think threatening the bridgemen's freedom is enough leverage.

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He doesn't need to use Kaladin's parents, I think threatening the bridgemen's freedom is enough leverage.

The bridgemen being under Dalinar's protection means that that would be a very empty threat. Short of assasination or similar, which personally I do not think Amaram would resort to, there isn't really anything he can do to them without some very clever maneuvering.

Edited by lord Claincy Ffnord
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He doesn't need to use Kaladin's parents, I think threatening the bridgemen's freedom is enough leverage.

Also, they've been given their freedom, so whether or not they'll loose Dalinar's protection, turning them back into slaves without a proper reason could prove difficult.

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 The thing is when you pass the Moral Event Horizon acting in dubious way to get your chull of the line aren't a big deal.  Putting in sclae Kill at cold blood your savior and blackmail someone the first are must worse crime. So Restares could provide the motivation Amaram already showed his true color he culd veru easily blackmail Kaladin he inclusive already have Roshene perfectly poised to do the dirty work to him =)

I doubt Amaram will blackmail Kaladin with his parents unless they are in the immediate vicinity, like if they were a part of his entourage or whatever. Even if that happens, I don't think he has it in him to do that either.

Look, I hate him as much as anyone here, but I still think he's a good person with good intentions who made some bad decisions for the greater good. It's too early to tell, but there's a chance that his story could very well turn into one of redemption, that he'll be offered another choice between the moral choice or a logical one but he will stick to his conscience this time. Maybe save Dalinar or Kaladin in the process. But who knows? This is just wistful thinking on my part. Amaram could very well be just another blue-blooded douche who will be painfully killed off when he proves to be just another obstacle for our heroes. Gosh, I want t0 read the second book so much.

 

I feel Kaladin deciding not to return home to face his parents was his only real moral failing in the story.  Even if he choose not to take up surgeons training he could almost certainly re-enlist.  Granted given the time frame he would never have gotten the chance even if he had chosen to take the news of Tien's death personally instead of by letter.

The flashback sequence all happened five years ago. Kaladin was only in the military for four years, and I think recruitment last about four years in Amaram's army. So maybe he didn't planned to avoid his parents forever, just until enough time have passed for him to move on from Tien's death.

 

The bridgemen being under Dalinar's protection means that that would be a very empty threat. Short of assasination or similar, which personally I do not think Amaram would resort to, there isn't really anything he can do to them without some very clever maneuvering.

I also don't think Amaram will use the bridgemen against him, though it would be neat to see the story come a full circle and have Kaladin kill Amaram in defense of his new comrades and vengeance for his old.

 

 

Based on the following interaction, I feel certain that we will see more of his parents. 
 

There are so many juicy things that Brandon can do...

 

I'm partly pleased to find out that his parents are alive, but because of my overactive imagination, I'm also kind of horrified. Unless they are really that bad as parents and Kaladin's flashback was a lie, there are only so many scenarios why they broke off contact with their son(s) the moment they joined the military. Hearthstone still stinks as badly as it ever did.

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The flashback sequence all happened five years ago. Kaladin was only in the military for four years, and I think recruitment last about four years in Amaram's army. So maybe he didn't planned to avoid his parents forever, just until enough time have passed for him to move on from Tien's death.

 

The flashback where he mentions sending a message to his parents only occurred about eight months before the start of the story.  Granted it doesn't mention precisely when he sent the message but bringing it up on the day he saved Amaram's life at least implies that as of that time he still didn't intend to ever return.  Now in the fullness of time he may eventually come to regret that and try to discover what became of his parents but not yet at least.  Especially since his new responsibilities will be taking his attention for the foreseeable future.

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He's been enslaved, sold, escaped, recaptured, bought, transported, sold again, put through hell, changed armies, and now hangs out with high princes. I would not want to be the mailman come looking for him in that situation

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I fear Lirin has done something rash to get back at Roshone for inscripting his sons. Kal's parents could be in prison if things got really out of hand.

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Amaram couldn't remember who Kaladin was; much less his parents.

Lirin mentioned leaving when he and Kaladin are in the carriage on the way to dinner with Roshone. Before dismissing the idea he says they could move to almost any Alethi town, or even Kholinar.

Kharbranth is not mentioned. I get the idea Lirin thinks they have more than enough highly educated surgeons and physicians there.

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Anybody else think kaladin is adopted? :B

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That would be kind of silly. The whole thing on Roshar seems to be (magically) your lineage being less important than your behaviour.

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I can certainly envision Roshone spitefully intercepting any correspondence between Kaladin and his parents. And yes, I hope we'll see them again at some point. I'd love to see how they'd react to Syl and the news that Kaladin is now a Knight Radiant.

 

As for Amaram... I keep wondering what he would have done had Kaladin claimed the Shards for himself. I could certainly be wrong about this, but I always had the feeling that it was only after Kaladin refused the Shards and stated his intent to give them to the best of his remaining men that Amaram decided to steal them for himself, rationalizing his crime with something along the lines of "if the Shards' rightful winner won't claim them for himself, why should they go to a lesser fighter than me, who also has other Very Serious and Important Threats to deal with?"

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I encourage you to reread the scene in question, if you haven't recently. Amaram only asks why Kaladin saved him. Kaladin claims the shards and team Amaram moves into action without discussion. The murder, enslavement and theft were totally premeditated. Amaram even talks about discussing it.

Of course, all that had to have happened was that Koreb picks up the shards immediately, then no problem.

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I encourage you to reread the scene in question, if you haven't recently. Amaram only asks why Kaladin saved him. Kaladin claims the shards and team Amaram moves into action without discussion. The murder, enslavement and theft were totally premeditated. Amaram even talks about discussing it.

Of course, all that had to have happened was that Koreb picks up the shards immediately, then no problem.

 

Yes just reread the book this is true, i thought the same thing.

I think the man he was convinced by was Restares (who Gavilar also mentioned as a possible employer for Szeth, before he found out it was the parshendi)

I Think this guy Restares swayed him like 'evil whispers in the ear'

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