Why are there no more Mistborn?

[navybrandt]

I have not read Shadows of Self yet, so please no spoilers for book 5.

 

Why are there no more mistborn in the Wax and Wayne series? Has it just been bred out? If so, I imagine it would become exceedingly rare but not impossible. Is there a confirmed answer or just speculation?

 

Also, why were there no ferrings or twinborn in the original trilogy?

[Shardbearer]

I believe that the answer to both of these questions is that the genes for alomancy and feruchemy interfere with each other, so the interbreeding between metalborn caused it so mistborn could no longer be born, and neither can full feruchemists.

 

There is speculation that full feruchemists may still exist in the Terris enclave, if their bloodlines are pure or almost pure Terris.

[Jondesu]

I thought that it was confirmed that Sazed/Harmony changed the people so there were no more Mistborn, and made Ferrings possible?

 

jW

[Yata]

There is multiple factors. One and most important it's about the mixing of Allomancy and Feruchemy gene, they don't mix very well together and it's impossible (not improbable, impossible) to someone to born as Mistborn-Feruchemist, also the Mistborn-Ferring or Feruchemist-Misting it's incredible rare also from both incredible pure Heritages.

To this first problem there is another fact. The Allomantic power is fade away from the popolation, it passed 300 years from the Spook time and the Allomantic Strenght in the popolation isn't the same of the Final Empire. Many nobles family was destroyed and probably Spook was the only (or some of the few) to have a significant amount of Allomantic Strenght (thanks to Harmony).

 

Put together this two problems and you got something like "the end of the mistborn".

[Zathoth]

The allomantic genes are thinning out, just like how Vin was weaker than Elend, a Lerasium Mistborn, that and she pretty much killed all the Mistborn, making it so that the allomancy genes disappeared faster. (If those two had children and if Vin didnt kill like all the Mistborn it is possible that there would still be Mistborn)

 

As for Ferrings, like Yata said the allomantic genes and the feruchemical genes are a terrible mix, because of that you end up with ferrings.

 

Of course Harmony could do something about it, if he wanted to...

[Voidus]

A few additional reasons, the interbreeding of skaa and noblemen would have diluted it even further, most of the skaa had no allomancy genes whatsoever so the genes were further bred out through that, plus Mistborn were always pretty rare anyway, there's nothing to say that they're impossible at the moment, just very, very, very rare (One every few generations perhaps)

[natc]

A few additional reasons, the interbreeding of skaa and noblemen would have diluted it even further, most of the skaa had no allomancy genes whatsoever so the genes were further bred out through that, plus Mistborn were always pretty rare anyway, there's nothing to say that they're impossible at the moment, just very, very, very rare (One every few generations perhaps)

Well, they DO have the genes, generally *stares at atium misting army*

They basically have such low potential though, that they need supernatural enhancement to reach the point where their power can be expressed. The mists used to do that, but we haven't seen that going on yet.

Mistborn aren't really a natural part of the system, I think, more of a consequence of how strong of an allomantic potential burning lerasium can give you. That's probably faded a lot more from the nobles by now with all the breeding that probably went down early on. Skaa only developed allomancy in the Final Empire, what, 4 to 5 generations away from a noble ancestor? It must require a lot of keeping all offspring between members of the nobility for allomancy to even continue to exist as it did.

[Oudeis]

It has expressly been stated in the books that there have been no Mistborn since the Lord Mistborn.

[Leviathan]

I thought that it was confirmed that Sazed/Harmony changed the people so there were no more Mistborn, and made Ferrings possible?

 

jW

 

That was my understanding as well. Heck, I thought it was listed in the first book somewhere actually, around the bit where one of them is speculating on how terrifying a Mistborn would be.

 

Basically, Sazed/Harmony went "No more full Metalborn".

[Yata]

That was my understanding as well. Heck, I thought it was listed in the first book somewhere actually, around the bit where one of them is speculating on how terrifying a Mistborn would be.

 

Basically, Sazed/Harmony went "No more full Metalborn".

But there could be probably Feruchemist. If there is closed conclave. If instead you speak about Mistborn+Feruchemist. The only way was through Lerasium and therefore Harmony could simply took away the Lerasium left (if there is any on Scadrial).

[Voidus]

But there could be probably Feruchemist. If there is closed conclave. If instead you speak about Mistborn+Feruchemist. The only way was through Lerasium and therefore Harmony could simply took away the Lerasium left (if there is any on Scadrial).

Well it's not particularly likely but if say Spook and Tindwyl had a child it'd have a small likelihood of being both, which is why TLR's breeding program for the Terrismen was so strict.

[Yata]

Well it's not particularly likely but if say Spook and Tindwyl had a child it'd have a small likelihood of being both, which is why TLR's breeding program for the Terrismen was so strict.

Nope there is a WoB about. In natural way It's impossible to born Mistborn-Feruchemist. There is a tiny possiblity to born Mistborn-Ferring or Misting-Feruchemist but often from double good Heritages the result is a Twinborn.

[Voidus]

Nope there is a WoB about. In natural way It's impossible to born Mistborn-Feruchemist. There is a tiny possiblity to born Mistborn-Ferring or Misting-Feruchemist but often from double good Heritages the result is a Twinborn.

Can you quote it? Other than the most recent interviews I've read most WoB and it doesn't sound even vaguely familiar.

[Yata]

Can you quote it? Other than the most recent interviews I've read most WoB and it doesn't sound even vaguely familiar.

I am searching it but probably I am using wrong the "Search function" because it give me no result also with common words. Anyway It comes from the AMA if I remember right

 

I was horribly wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/crxbdm3?context=10000

Edited October 22, 2015 by Yata

[Voidus]

I am searching it but probably I am using wrong the "Search function" because it give me no result also with common words. Anyway It comes from the AMA if I remember right

 

I was horribly wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/crxbdm3?context=10000

Yeah that's what I thought, massively unlikely but not impossible.

[Yata]

Yeah that's what I thought, massively unlikely but not impossible.

Now I think (AoL era) that it impossible to be a natural Fullborn. The Allomantic heritage is too week probably to give life to a natural Mistborn without breeding programs (I didn't read SoS therefore I don't know if there is something else in the book about).

If you add the "mixing gene" probably only the purest lineages could hope to give birth to a Mistborn one day.

[Voidus]

Now I think (AoL era) that it impossible to be a natural Fullborn. The Allomantic heritage is too week probably to give life to a natural Mistborn without breeding programs (I didn't read SoS therefore I don't know if there is something else in the book about).

If you add the "mixing gene" probably only the purest lineages could hope to give birth to a Mistborn one day.

Yeah, the chances of it happening would be just insanely low, Mistborn or Feruchemists alone seem to be so rare that there's not been any for generations, a combination of the two would need a few billion years of careful breeding programs.

Unless Sazed just decides to release a bunch of Lerasium and turns a bunch of people in feruchemists.

[Shardbearer]

I don't know if it would take billions of years for a breeding program to work. You could start 2 breeding programs at the same time, one that takes mistings with as little feruchemy DNA as possible, and another with ferrings. Once you successfully get these two lines to create full mistborn/feruchemists, you could then work on combining them together again. If you have enough people in the program, it's not inconceivable to have a full twinborn after several generations.

 

Of course such a program would still take a long time, and would probably be prohibitively expensive.

[Voidus]

I don't know if it would take billions of years for a breeding program to work. You could start 2 breeding programs at the same time, one that takes mistings with as little feruchemy DNA as possible, and another with ferrings. Once you successfully get these two lines to create full mistborn/feruchemists, you could then work on combining them together again. If you have enough people in the program, it's not inconceivable to have a full twinborn after several generations.

 

Of course such a program would still take a long time, and would probably be prohibitively expensive.

Well it'd take several generations just to get a mistborn and the children of mistborn aren't always mistborn either, they'd just have the same chance as they used to pre-Ascension. So once you create your first mistborn you'd better make sure he has around 10,000 kids to ensure it keeps going.

You'd need either hundreds of thousands of participants and a few dozen generations or a smaller group and exponentially larger generation numbers.

[natc]

Plus, won't mixing them together at the end just end up with ferrings again?

Though I vaguely recall a WoB on the possibility of creating natural-born Mistborn-ferrings and Feruchemist-mistings. Fullborn would be a real problem when the presence of such powerful allomantic blood will no doubt fracture the feruchemical blood again within a generation or so.

[Christin White]

Wasn't this precisely what Miles was trying to do? At least on the Allomantic side of things? It doesn't seem inconceivable that while losing Miles was a setback to the breeding program its still being carried out by The Set. In the short-term their goal could be to create an army of Mistings or even Mistborn through Hemalurgy but that doesn't preclude a long-term breeding plan to create natural Mistborn.

 

Assuming The Set isn't completely dismantled by the end of the second series it might be how we could have full Mistborn return for the Brandon's second epic Mistborn trilogy. If the conclave does have full Feruchemists we could end up seeing Mistborn Feruchemists in the future.

 

This is purely speculation on my part but I'm skeptical that we won't see the return of Mistborn in the next series. While Twinborn are a lot of fun for these shorter books I feel that they don't lend themselves to the epic drama and world building of the first trilogy.

 

Edit: Autocorrect & spelling

Edited November 1, 2015 by chrisWhite

[Kaymyth]

I would actually argue that Twinborn are more interesting than Mistborn.  The limitations of their powers lead to them being more creative in playing with them and the ways that they combine.  It's that creativity and discovery of new ways to do things that wakes my fascination.

 

Well, that and Wayne antics, but I've come to terms with the fact that those can't last forever.

[Weltall]

Wasn't this precisely what Miles was trying to do? At least on the Allomantic side of things? It doesn't seem inconceivable that while losing Miles was a setback to the breading program is still being carried out by The Set. In the short-term their goal could be to create an army of listings or even Mistborn through Hemalurgy but that doesn't preclude a long-term breeding plan to create natural Mistborn.

While you can approximate the abilities of a Mistborn with enough spikes, what you'd get would really be less a Mistborn and more a very spiky Steel Inquisitor. Kind of a problem if Harmony decides he doesn't want more of those and if the Set knows enough about Hemalurgy to create one, they're probably aware of that little flaw. (SoS spoilers)

Even if they have enough spikes incorporating the mystery metal, the evidence from the latest book pretty strongly suggests that it's the number of spikes that's important, or else Paalm (who definitely had more than one 'godmetal' spike) could have used multiple spikes at a time without worry.

So unless there's another method we're unaware of, a descendant of a Noble hiding out there that doesn't have much/any Terris ancestry in their recent bloodline or more Lerasium, if the Set wants a Mistborn I suspect they'd be going for a long term breeding program. Which of course doesn't prevent them from experimenting with Hemalurgy or using it to create Mistings/Ferrings with desirable abilities.

 

This is purely speculation on my part but I'm skeptical that we won't see the return of Mistborn in the next series.

 

Unless Brandon changes his mind about what he's already told us about plans for the (now) third era, we know we're going to see Mistborn in the next series.

 

I would actually argue that Twinborn are more interesting than Mistborn.  The limitations of their powers lead to them being more creative in playing with them and the ways that they combine.  It's that creativity and discovery of new ways to do things that wakes my fascination.

 

Well, that and Wayne antics, but I've come to terms with the fact that those can't last forever.

 

Well, we haven't seen all the possibilities of a Mistborn yet because of the metals that weren't used during the Final Empire era but yeah, in terms of cool possibilities I agree that Twinborn offer more options for cool and creative effects, especially since the Ars Arcanum posits that each combination results in a unique trait over and above the mere combination of one Allomantic and one Feruchemical ability.

[Cadmium]

Also, why were there no ferrings or twinborn in the original trilogy?

Hero of Ages Spoiler

First, Rashek turned all of the Feruchemists of his time into Mistwraiths. As I understand it, the only Feruchemical genes left were latent recessive carriers in the non Feruchemist Terris peoples.  Remember that Tindwyl entered the breeding program just so they could spread the Feruchemist genes.

There were so very few Keepers and those hidden away.Ferrings were likely bred out.  Twinborn were nigh impossible because The Lord Ruler wasn't going to allow a Noble to breeding with the Terris mothers like Tindwyl.

 

Well, they DO have the genes, generally *stares at atium misting army*

They basically have such low potential though, that they need supernatural enhancement to reach the point where their power can be expressed. The mists used to do that, but we haven't seen that going on yet.

But remember that the mists hit everyone and only 16% were sick and only 16% of those were Atium Mistings. If those ratios held true, only 16% of the population at that time were any kind of Misting, then remember that the general populace didn't know about Duralumin, Aluminum, Bendalloy, Cadmium, at least two other metals, and didn't have access to Atium. Most only thought there were 8 metals. That means that only 8-9% would have had any likelihood of discovering their status as a Misting.

That's going to draw the numbers down even further.

 

Nope there is a WoB about. In natural way It's impossible to born Mistborn-Feruchemist. There is a tiny possiblity to born Mistborn-Ferring or Misting-Feruchemist but often from double good Heritages the result is a Twinborn.

Consider the overall arc that Brandon is taking the novels on. IF he wanted a character with the full set of one of the powers and a single power from the other set, it's far less likely right now that he'd write a natural-born Mistborn-Ferring or Misting-Feruchemist than say...  a Feruchemist or Allomancer with a Hemalurgic spike.

Don't you agree?

[Christin White]

I would actually argue that Twinborn are more interesting than Mistborn.  The limitations of their powers lead to them being more creative in playing with them and the ways that they combine.  It's that creativity and discovery of new ways to do things that wakes my fascination.

 

I agree, the Twinborn are more interesting and more fun due to their limitations. However, they're a bit too limited for the epic moments Brandon loves employing so much, imagine Wax or Wayne trying to take on a steel inquisitor or even multiple inquisitors the way Vin does. Miles probably would have a better chance but I doubt he could beat an inquisitor, at least not in a straight fight.

 

I'm not saying this is bad in any way but I don't think it's as well suited for the high fantasy and heroic romance characterized by the first trilogy. If anything, I think Brandon will have to increase their powers in the second and third epic trilogies to keep up the momentum building to his signature climax.

 

I don't have any WoB on any of this, I just feel like it fits his writing tendencies. When we get long epics like the first Mistborn trilogy and the Stormlight Archive things go really, really big while his shorter books tend toward the more playful and clever limitations like we see in and out of the cosmere (Wax and Wayne series, the cosmere novellas and short stories, Legion, Rithmatist, etc.).