ParadoxicalZen Posted December 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Its a tricky thing, as I recall an old WoB saying we've seen or have influences from all of the Heralds at various points in WoK (depending how you define seen anyway) Pali is speculated to have been in the Palaneum in one of Shallan's PoV's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Maybe far in the future, but not at the current time. He doesn't seem "broken" in the way Shallan or Kaladin are, and even the loss of his favorite sparring partner (Roion) didn't seem to give him more than a moment's pause at the time. Maybe next book or the book after, once he's had time to let it sink in. I personally believe we have been too much emphasis on the "broken" criteria. It is said the sprens need cracks in the soul in order to establish the Nahel bond, however those may not require physical torture to appear. Sebrarial may have lived an "easy" life when compared to Kaladin or Shallan, but it does not mean it was a life without any hardships... After all, the man is unmarried, does not have any heir that we know of, is known for picking up "strays" in the street and has a relationship with his darkeyed mistress he does not bother to hide. To turn out this way in a society which promotes marriage during the late teens for the shake of alliance, especially among the highest rank, anyone falling outside that mold is bond to have an interesting story. We don't know what prompt Sebrarial to diverge so strongly from the establishes standard: it may be a very interesting story or a very boring one. We do not know. I would not, however, rule him out on the basis his life does not appear as tragic as others. This being said, I don't have a precise opinion on Sebrarial and Radiants, but I must admit the conceptual argument does bode bad for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 I personally believe we have been too much emphasis on the "broken" criteria. It is said the sprens need cracks in the soul in order to establish the Nahel bond, however those may not require physical torture to appear. Sebrarial may have lived an "easy" life when compared to Kaladin or Shallan, but it does not mean it was a life without any hardships... After all, the man is unmarried, does not have any heir that we know of, is known for picking up "strays" in the street and has a relationship with his darkeyed mistress he does not bother to hide. To turn out this way in a society which promotes marriage during the late teens for the shake of alliance, especially among the highest rank, anyone falling outside that mold is bond to have an interesting story. We don't know what prompt Sebrarial to diverge so strongly from the establishes standard: it may be a very interesting story or a very boring one. We do not know. I would not, however, rule him out on the basis his life does not appear as tragic as others. This being said, I don't have a precise opinion on Sebrarial and Radiants, but I must admit the conceptual argument does bode bad for him. Perhaps. I will admit that we don't know enough about any spren other than honorspren and liespren to really nail down whether Sebarial would attract any of them or not. (And that's really the major sticking point - you can traumatize yourself to any degree you want, and it won't mean squat without a spren there to take an interest in you). And honestly, I don't see either of those really working out for Sebarial in the slightest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Perhaps. I will admit that we don't know enough about any spren other than honorspren and liespren to really nail down whether Sebarial would attract any of them or not. (And that's really the major sticking point - you can traumatize yourself to any degree you want, and it won't mean squat without a spren there to take an interest in you). And honestly, I don't see either of those really working out for Sebarial in the slightest. While we have only seenSyl and Pattern are work, we do know the attributes other sprens are looking for into their proto-knights. Sebrarial isn't a massively fleshed out character: it is thus not hard to imagine he may fit within the characteristic of a few orders. As I said, I however don't think he is a proto-Radiant, but I can't disapprove it due to lack of arguments. I am just willing to RAFO, but I love to know I can now stop trying to figure out who could be placed into certain orders as it was confirmed: we haven't met everyone yet. We know a future Dustbringer never had a POV which is a massive clue. We also know we may not have met proto-Willshapers and proto-Stonewards and since these orders were those usually used to place-hold characters such as Sebrarial/Eshonai and Lopen, we can do the math. Of course, these are just speculations, but we just haven't met everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quadbox Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 Something else... if brandon is counting the patron herald of each order as a member of the order, and the bondsmiths only ever have three members, doesnt that mean that we're down to two possible human bondsmiths? So presumably just the stormfather's and the nightwatcher's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted July 6, 2017 Report Share Posted July 6, 2017 7 hours ago, quadbox said: Something else... if brandon is counting the patron herald of each order as a member of the order, and the bondsmiths only ever have three members, doesnt that mean that we're down to two possible human bondsmiths? So presumably just the stormfather's and the nightwatcher's? I would say no. The source of "members only three" is an in-world book. To me, that says that there were 3 actual Bondsmiths as any one time, and Ishar is an extra(because while Brandon may not distinguish the Heralds as different, the Vorin Church certainly would.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 @The One Who Connects also as an addition, Ishar wouldn't have been making his presence known in the time between the Last Desolation and the Recreance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) On 7/6/2017 at 10:20 AM, The One Who Connects said: I would say no. The source of "members only three" is an in-world book. To me, that says that there were 3 actual Bondsmiths as any one time, and Ishar is an extra(because while Brandon may not distinguish the Heralds as different, the Vorin Church certainly would.) I don't think you can say that with certainty. Quote But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious. ” —Words of Radiance, chapter 16, page 14[9] “So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy theVoidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address. ” —Words of Radiance, chapter 30, page 18[4] The second quote is clearly just before the Requience. The first quote does not give an indication of time period other than "during the times of Madasa" This could be prior to the Last Desolation. It really doesn't even say that 3 is an upper limit. Just that 3 was a not uncommon number for them. 20% of the time would still be "not uncommon". The phaseing is odd, because of that vs saying it was a common number for them. If it was 2/80% and 3/20%, I would say both are not uncommon. If the statement was a logic puzzle, I would say it was indeterminate. Edited July 12, 2017 by FiveLate Clarification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 That first one sounds an awful lot like the Bondsmiths only have one spren, the Stormfather, and yes that 3 is not a maximum. My head canon forever has been clearly that there are 3 bondsmiths bonding with 3 different spren, and I feel like WoBs have been consistent with that. I don't have time now to search but... Could the Stormfather be the only source of Bondsmith bonds?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, Extesian said: That first one sounds an awful lot like the Bondsmiths only have one spren, the Stormfather, and yes that 3 is not a maximum. My head canon forever has been clearly that there are 3 bondsmiths bonding with 3 different spren, and I feel like WoBs have been consistent with that. I don't have time now to search but... Could the Stormfather be the only source of Bondsmith bonds?? I have been considering that for a while now as one option. The second being stormfather and nightwatcher, with Ishar making the third. Nightwatcher being an option since the majority of the KR spren are a combination or Honor and Cultivation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 12 hours ago, Extesian said: That first one sounds an awful lot like the Bondsmiths only have one spren, the Stormfather, and yes that 3 is not a maximum. My head canon forever has been clearly that there are 3 bondsmiths bonding with 3 different spren, and I feel like WoBs have been consistent with that. I don't have time now to search but... Could the Stormfather be the only source of Bondsmith bonds?? The Stormlight Archive Pocket Companion had new information on the Bondsmiths, namely that the Stormfather was one of three spren that could bond to one. Concerns were raised, and it was confirmed by Brandon that the new information was indeed true, and that he had provided it. There are indeed three Bondsmith spren. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Pagerunner said: The Stormlight Archive Pocket Companion had new information on the Bondsmiths, namely that the Stormfather was one of three spren that could bond to one. Concerns were raised, and it was confirmed by Brandon that the new information was indeed true, and that he had provided it. There are indeed three Bondsmith spren. Thanks Pagerunner, that's what I was looking for! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Extesian said: Thanks Pagerunner, that's what I was looking for! It's one of several entries that I've associated with Yata to find them again because he's the one who posts them on the Shard. Quote Q:The pocket companion states that: There are three spren that can bond a person to make them into a bondsmith, the Stormfather being one of them. As far as I recall the books implied that the number was low, and implied heavily that it was around that number in an epigraph, but didn't actually have a straight confirmation. So, should I take that as canon? A:Yes, you can take that as canon. They came to me for that information. [Source] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Lol I just found this too Quote Q: When it comes to the… epic-level spren on Roshar, like the Nightwatcher and Stormfather - is the number of epic-level spren equal to the number of Bondsmiths that you have on Roshar? A: Hm, is the number of epic-level spren related to the number of Bondsmiths you have? Well, I’ve said there’s a maximum of three. And there are three Shards involved in Roshar. I’m not gonna tell you if that’s a coincidence or not. Sorry. From JordanCon this year. And what is the Stormlight Archive Pocket Companion? I have never heard of it? Edited July 13, 2017 by FiveLate Continuation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 6 hours ago, FiveLate said: And what is the Stormlight Archive Pocket Companion? I have never heard of it? It was a small, pocket-sized book Tor printed in limited supply as a promo for... Edgedancer? It has basic information about things specific to SA, all present in the books already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 hours ago, FiveLate said: And what is the Stormlight Archive Pocket Companion? I have never heard of it? http://www.torforgeblog.com/2016/04/21/announcing-the-stormlight-archive-pocket-companion/ It was a little something Tor threw together for Independent Bookstore Day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Ahh, I guess it makes sense I couldn't get this on my kindle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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