Gaz's death

[Eri]

Mad_Scientist, you're a genius! It makes perfect sense.

How did he escape from the army and get from Plains to civilisation - that's another question. I guess he joined some merchants or something similar.

[happyman]

I don't think he's dead. I think he's a spy for Taravangian, and he left the Shattered Plains to report on the alliance between Dalinar and Sadeas.

Why do I think this? Well, I was struck by something odd when reading Way of Kings again recently. Near the end, Taravangian orders Szeth to kill Dalinar to stop him from uniting the Alethi highprinces. Why? Why does Taravangian think Dalinar is a threat right then, and not before? He mentions "recent events," but what are those events?

It can't have anything to do with Dalinar becomming Highprince of War, that hasn't been announced yet, and so no one but Dalinar and Elhokar should know that. And even if Taravangian did somehow know, would he really consider that a bad thing? Elhokar seems to think this is going to cause all the Highprinces to try to assassinate him and Dalinar, and Dalinar seems to kind of agree with him. It seems like any objective observer would feel there's a very good chance that Dalinar is going to bring about the complete collapse of Alethikar.

But regardless, Taravangian shouldn't know about that yet. So what recent events was he talking about? Sadeas betraying Dalinar and nearly causing a war between the two most powerful Highprinces? Certianly not that. That would be something Taravangian would be happy about. The only "recent events" that make sense would be Dalinar and Sadeas's initial alliance, which seemed to be going well at first.

This implies that Taravangian does not know about the most current events on the Shattered Plains. Either his spies have been lax in reporting to him about something as important as Sadeas and Dalinar's alliance collapsing, or Taravangian doesn't have enough spanreeds in his possession to give them to all his agents, and thus his Shatterd Plains contacts have to send him information the old fashion, and slower, way.

What is the point of all that stuff I just typed? Well, I noticed that Gaz disappeared right after Dalinar and Sadeas formed their alliance. In fact, unless I remember wrong, the first bridge run where they worked together was the last bridge run Gaz ever went on. The timing seems a bit coincidental.

Why would Gaz have disappeard right then? His old blackmailer was dead, he was specifically ordered not to murder Kaladin because it would make him a martryr(and thus Gaz wasn't likely killed by Wit or someone trying to protect Kaladin), and his current Lighteyes would have just made Gaz a bridgeman if Kaladin went too long without dying.

Why would Gaz have disappeared then? Perhaps he had something to report to his master, something so important he needed to deliver the message in person (which of course provided an escape for him).

I don't have too much hard evidence for Gaz working for Taravangian, but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Taravangian wants to collect the visions dying people see. He's not going to be content just using people in his own city. He's going to want to have agents in places of death and bloodshed, to hear what other dying men say. But that presents a problem. A common soldier is going to be busy trying to stay alive and unable to focus on what his dying friends are shouting out, and is also has a high chance of dying himself on any battle. An officer who stays behind the lines in safety won't be near the dying as they gasp their last breaths.

But Gaz? He's never in danger. Safest job in the entire army. And he goes on every run. And he's always around the bridgemen, who always die. Perfect position to hear the visions of dying men.

Also, consider Gaz's eye. He lost an eye, and nearly died. Put another way, if he had not gotten some good medical treatment, he would have died. And who has the best doctors in the world?

I'm not prepared to espouse this yet, but I think you've definitely hit upon an aspect of the truth, which is that Gaz is an agent for somebody else. This could possibly explain the blackmail, definitely explains his disappearance, and probably explains his survival of his wound.

As for Taragavinian's attitude toward Dalinar---I suspect he has the measure of Dalinar better than Dalinar himself does. He may be the target of assassination attempts from the other Highprinces, but there is also no doubt that he is a powerful symbol to the Alethi, the brother of one king and uncle to another king, a powerful warrior in his own right. He may have had some odd ideas recently, but from regular warriors, this may actually command a certain amount of respect as well. He certainly got Kaladin's respect. I think he has a better chance of uniting the Alethi than he gives himself, and Taragavinian knows this. Even if his first attempt fails, he is trying---who knows where it will go from here, especially if the king eventually falls in line behind him? No, I am inclined to believe that Taragavinian is basing his idea off of perfectly good and up-to-date intelligence, and even if it is a little out of date, I believe he is right in the long run. We'll see.

[Cheese Ninja]

MadScientist's theory is interesting, but I think Taragavinian values the accuracy and circumstances of the quotes quite a bit. Gaz isn't writing them down, or even shown to be making any note of them at all, or nothing details about the people who say them. Gaz was "watching from well behind the battle lines" when this happened:

Gadol spit up blood, coughing. “They break the land itself!” he hissed, eyes wild. “They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come!”

I wonder if that one was a reference to the making of the Shattered Plains?

I'm not sure if Gaz is dead, Brandon only stated in the opening quote that he was "planning for you to find out what happened to Gaz." Gaz as someone else's agent works for me too.

[Squallor]

MadScientist's theory is interesting, but I think Taragavinian values the accuracy and circumstances of the quotes quite a bit.

I agree with the Cheese here. Gaz as a spy for someone, I could fall in line with. However, as a spy for Taragavanivigan, the means and motivation don't really match up. I can almost guarantee Tavarganidan would want very meticulous notes taken on all death quotes: he is treating the phenomenon as a scientific study, so he most likely won't care about second hand stuff heard from some grimy soldier. Also, he has a city full of hospitals, so he has no shortage of dying people.

Also, I am sure someone like Garavantigan has the resources to get more efficient spy networks going. Nothing Gaz learned could have been important to call for Gaz to make the trip in person. Also, Taverengavian most likely has resources is more elite circles anyway: someone like a cook would be much more useful as a spy that Gaz. Gaz is too out of the loop.

I currently like to believe Gaz was kidnapped by some baddies and tortured for information about someone who is showing the powers of radiants. IE someone is looking for Kal.

DISCLAIMER: I havent read the book since it came out, so my memory on motivations and the like might be a bit flakey. I also have no evidence of any sort that Gaz was kidnapped. Its just what I would do if I needed Gaz shipped somewhere/had people looking for Kaladin.

[Mad_Scientist]

I can almost guarantee Tavarganidan would want very meticulous notes taken on all death quotes: he is treating the phenomenon as a scientific study, so he most likely won't care about second hand stuff heard from some grimy soldier. Also, he has a city full of hospitals, so he has no shortage of dying people.

Some of the death quotes given before chapters were specifically stated as being second-hand, simply overheard, and/or of questionable veracity. Taravangian clealy still considered them notable, since they were part of the chapter epigraphs.

Also, keep in mind that in the Vorin nations, men don't read, and women don't wage war. So even if Taravangian had a spy other than Gaz, a more learned spy, he still wouldn't be able to take notes, not without raising too many questions: "Hey, why can you, a guy, read and write? And why are you taking notes while your allies lie bleeding and dying around you?"

And of course a woman wouldn't be on the front lines anyways, and thus wouldn't hear the dying men.

As for having enough people... Taravangian specifically told Szeth that he didn't have enough people. That's why instead of just taking the terminally ill, he was also taking and killing people who would normally recover.

[Squallor]

Some of the death quotes given before chapters were specifically stated as being second-hand, simply overheard, and/or of questionable veracity. Taravangian clealy still considered them notable, since they were part of the chapter epigraphs.

Also, keep in mind that in the Vorin nations, men don't read, and women don't wage war. So even if Taravangian had a spy other than Gaz, a more learned spy, he still wouldn't be able to take notes, not without raising too many questions: "Hey, why can you, a guy, read and write? And why are you taking notes while your allies lie bleeding and dying around you?"

And of course a woman wouldn't be on the front lines anyways, and thus wouldn't hear the dying men.

As for having enough people... Taravangian specifically told Szeth that he didn't have enough people. That's why instead of just taking the terminally ill, he was also taking and killing people who would normally recover.

O.o

.....

Touche

[Cheese Ninja]

Some of the death quotes given before chapters were specifically stated as being second-hand, simply overheard, and/or of questionable veracity. Taravangian clealy still considered them notable, since they were part of the chapter epigraphs.

Also, keep in mind that in the Vorin nations, men don't read, and women don't wage war. So even if Taravangian had a spy other than Gaz, a more learned spy, he still wouldn't be able to take notes, not without raising too many questions: "Hey, why can you, a guy, read and write? And why are you taking notes while your allies lie bleeding and dying around you?"

And of course a woman wouldn't be on the front lines anyways, and thus wouldn't hear the dying men.

As for having enough people... Taravangian specifically told Szeth that he didn't have enough people. That's why instead of just taking the terminally ill, he was also taking and killing people who would normally recover.

That's pretty good, but he's still not close enough to the bridgemen as they die in the one instance we saw where he could have gotten a good quote. And by "take note", I meant mentally, it would be way too suspicious for a guy to start writing things down.

[Squallor]

I just don't buy it. It is a huge stretch to link Taravangian to Gaz, and I don't think Gaz is a reliable source for death quotes. If he isn't using Gaz as a quote collector, and just a spy, there are better places for his spy to be.

As for second hand quotes... I don't want to believe he is going with everything and anything. Even a simple word mix up could change the meaning of the quote entirely, so that could be dangerous. I think it might be more of someone didn't die in front of his Ardents, but there were several witnesses who all heard the dying say something very odd with their last breath. This is a reliable way to get second hand quotes, without just having one person who just has to overhear dead people.

[Mad_Scientist]

Well, we don't know how good Gaz's memory is, do we? I can definitely see why he wouldn't strike most people as the type to be a spy/quote collector for Taravangian... which is why he's so perfect for the role.

As for Taravangian not wanting inaccurate quotes, well, that's true but at the same time I'd think he'd rather still hear the death visions with the potential for some of them to be a bit off, then not hear them at all. He'd just be extra cautious about ones from less trusted sources.

It's not ideal for him, but he's gone far beyond doing what is ideal long ago.

We'll see. At least Gaz is one mystery that will probably be answered in book 2.

[CrazyRioter]

It strikes me that if he wanted accurate death quotes he'd slip spies among the surgeons, seems like surgeons have to learn to memorize things pretty well, since they don't read, and they see lots of people dying at close range so they can hear them speaking.

[Eri]

I currently like to believe Gaz was kidnapped by some baddies and tortured for information about someone who is showing the powers of radiants. IE someone is looking for Kal.

I think Gaz would happily give that info to anyone wanting it, especially if money were involved. He could be asked and killed, to get rid of witnesses, but kidnapped? I don't think so.

Also, keep in mind that in the Vorin nations, men don't read, and women don't wage war. So even if Taravangian had a spy other than Gaz, a more learned spy, he still wouldn't be able to take notes, not without raising too many questions: "Hey, why can you, a guy, read and write? And why are you taking notes while your allies lie bleeding and dying around you?"

And of course a woman wouldn't be on the front lines anyways, and thus wouldn't hear the dying men.

Two (or more) spies - Gaz and some woman? He could memorize the quotes and letter tell her, she could write them down.

Edited August 4, 2011 by eri

[Squallor]

I think Gaz would happily give that info to anyone wanting it, especially if money were involved. He could be asked and killed, to get rid of witnesses, but kidnapped? I don't think so.

I will make an addendum to my earlier comment then. "Kidnapped, asked and killed" still feels more likely in my opinion.

[pmj812]

I think we have a strong chance that "paranoid about shady dudes" means Gaz has taken himself to Shadesmar accidentally and is trapped there.

Remember, Gaz takes ridiculous chances to infuse his spheres. There was a sense that "Gaz is giving us dun spheres again" when it was Kaladin who drained them - but notice the "again." Spheres go dun around Gaz too, I'm thinking. But he doesn't understand why.

He and the King both seem to be using stormlight without realizing it, and be paranoid about half-seen shadowy figures.

Soulcasters, both of 'em.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

I doubt that they're Soulcasters, specifically. Surgebinders of some kind, but probably not Soulcasters. I agree that there's more to Gaz's shadows then we're giving credit for, I'm just not sure what.

[Cheese Ninja]

I doubt that they're Soulcasters, specifically. Surgebinders of some kind, but probably not Soulcasters. I agree that there's more to Gaz's shadows then we're giving credit for, I'm just not sure what.

Actually, I think people might be giving Gaz's shadows more credit than they deserve. Unlike Elhokar, there's no evidence of the symbolheaded truthspren. There's a one-eyed man who is being blackmailed and is worried about what he can't see coming.

[CabbageHead]

I think a far more mundane explaination of gaz's absence is likely. He just doesn't seem the type to have any sort of connections to anything big. He's a petty bully in a low ranked position in an army of scumbags. There may however have been some foreshadowing of his fate in his conversation with Lamaril....

“Bridgemen exist for one purpose, Gaz. To protect the lives of more valuable men.”

“Really? And here I thought their purpose was to carry bridges.”

Lamaril gave him a sharp look. He leaned forward. “Don’t try me, Gaz. And don’t forget your place. Would you like to join them?”

Gaz felt a spike of fear.

Now that is something I could see causing all sorts of problems for Kaladin, finding out that the person his men hate most is now one of them.

[Unworldly]

It strikes me that if he wanted accurate death quotes he'd slip spies among the surgeons, seems like surgeons have to learn to memorize things pretty well, since they don't read, and they see lots of people dying at close range so they can hear them speaking.

Actually, if I recall correctly, Kaladin can read (at least, he can read simple glyphs) because surgeons do learn to read. It was a major point of contention between himself and the other young boys of his village - they spent hot days farming while he sat in the shade, memorising stuff out of a book about surgery.

Also, I'd like to bring to everyone's attention - one of Brandon's short stories ("Defending Elysium" I think) features a visually challenged hero, and the descriptions of the 'blackness' of sightlessnes and how disturbing it is remind me strongly of Gaz's experiences with his missing eye.

The point I make here is, from my reading, the blindness was a *major* part of the 'magic'-system in Defending Elysium, and the similar descriptions suggest to me that there's much more to Gaz's blindness than (sorry) meets the eye.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Unworldly

[CrazyRioter]

glyphs aren't normally used to write anything substantial. They're just used for signs and labels and prayers. Kaladin's mom read to him a lot. Stormwardens apparently use them for more extensive purposes but that's considered unusual and slightly disturbing, and I suspect any surgeon taking notes using glyphs would attract attention.

[moochboy]

I though Hoid killed Gaz.

The last time we see the bridgemen talking about him is when they find the Emerald broam, Kaladin said they have to give it to Gaz but keep the rest of the spheres they find. The very next bridge run Gaz is gone, that’s the one where Dalinar saves Sadeas. After the battle and back at Sadeas camp Teft shows Kaladin he can inhale Stomlight, Kaladin thinking he’s cursed goes out near the Plains and sees Hoid’s fire. There Hoid makes the comment about being attached to his Stormlight, and holds up an Emerald broam.

The only why I can think of is that Hoid can see a little into the future, and if Gaz was still alive would have stopped Kaladin from going out onto the peninsula where he was waiting.

[Inkthinker]

oooh... if you're right (about the emerald broam), that's pretty good. That fits better than most theories I've heard.

[Zas678]

That makes sense. Or Gaz happens to see Hoid doing something magical, goes off to squeal, so Hoid either kills him or uses magic so he is far away or so he can't tell anyone.

[LightReader]

I could totally see Hoid having the ability to just shove Gaz into Shadesmar and leave him there until he decides to let him out again. Of course, Gaz would probably come out totally schizophrenic, especially since he was already going a little crazy because of his missing eye. I'm still hoping that Hoid is a good guy and would try to avoid killing people.

[Cheese Ninja]

I don't think Hoid wants to get involved to the degree of killing/spiriting away people. He seems most comfortable simply guiding and informing people. I still don't have any idea what happened to Gaz, but it seems clear that this is what Brandon was referring to when he mentioned an "Asmodean's death"-type mystery. Later when we have all the facts we can look at it and say "Oh, that's reasonable." Note: This doesn't necessarily meant that Gaz is dead.

[Aoibheann]

As I've been puzzling over Gaz's disappearance, I've always been struck by the following quote:

page 473:

Stormfather, Gaz thought, I hate myself for being a part of this. But he'd hated himself for a long time now. It wasn't anything new to him.

It makes me wonder exactly how old Gaz is. This seems to be a really important thing to be said. I'm not sure that I'm ready to say he's immortal, but it sounds like he feels like he's worthless because he gave up on his honor and he doesn't deserve a better life than he has right now.

That could impact the motivations of other characters.

[Aoibheann]

Another thought - Maybe Gaz's past, whatever it is, could have impacted Hoid to give him a way out.