jacksoncoco Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Opening Disclaimer: I'm sorry I'm not going to have the exact references directly in front of me, but my Dad has my copy at this time and is a slow reader. The part of Shadows of Self that really caught my attention, was the fact that MeLaan gave Wax his earring personally, on what I assume were Harmony's orders. It is confirmed as being a Hemalurgic spike, but the ability that is charged with the spike is unknown. My theory/hope is that the earring is the same earring as the one Vin wore during the original trilogy (giving it an allomantic bronze charge). I saw a post on here about the earring before, where the poster theorized that the earring has a pewter charge, as Wax is seen to be strengthened by the mists. Well, during HoA, didn't Vin become the Mists when she took the Shard of Preservation and drew all the mists into herself? Could she be giving him a slight physical boost as she did to Elend at the end of HoA? One of the things that made me think this (I'm really sorry about the reference part here) is the short aside from Wax in SoS where he talks about a form moving with him in the mists sometimes. Furthermore, in several sections of the book he muses about Vin and what she would have been like, but what if she is really the form in the mists that he can sense when he is about? Here is where I think about how Vin was able to sense the Mist spirit using her bronze, and maybe the Bronze allomantic charge of his earring allows Wax to be able to sense Vin in the mists. Partially related to the above theory, but how is an allomantically charged hemalurgic spike used? Did inquisitors have to actually ingest the metals they needed before using the abilities, or did the spikes themselves provide a certain measure of the abilities? If they needed to actually ingest them, I could imagine duralumin steelpushes being very dangerous for inquisitors, as how could they see after doing something like that? (First post, Sorry if not put up in the right way) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 If you're referring to the original earring he got pre AoL then I think that was confirmed to be made from a melted Inquisitor spike so it could still have Bronze but it's not Vins.Vin became the whole Shard of Preservation, part of which is the mists but since Sazed has the Shard now I don't think she's got much to do with them anymore, much though I might wish she did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 In answer to your first point, I believe that Vin is fully gone from the Cosmere. So I doubt that she would be floating about in the mists. As to the second Hemalurgic Spikes give access to an ability but, as far as I know, you can't burn them Allomantically. But I think they can be used to store Feurchemical traits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hemalurgy steals spiritual genes and staples it to someone else, basically. Allomancy spikes only contain the ability to perform allomancy. So you can't really change the charge, especially since what the spike can contain depends on what it is made of. Vin is dead and passed on, unlike Kelsier who is dead and decidedly still around. The mist is formed out of Preservation, who Sazed technically is. Vin also never physically boosted anything directly that I recall, all she did for Elend was fuel his metal reserves, which include pewter. There's also the fact that Wax's replacement earing basically looks more or less exactly like Vin's earing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksoncoco Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hemalurgy steals spiritual genes and staples it to someone else, basically. Allomancy spikes only contain the ability to perform allomancy. So you can't really change the charge, especially since what the spike can contain depends on what it is made of. First of, thanks for all the clarity. Was as much hope as a theory. Second, if Allomantic spikes only contain the ability to perform Allomancy, do inquisitors burn iron or steel at all times in order to be able to see? I wasn't thinking you could change the charge of the spikes, but instead wondering how the powers themselves are accessed. For example, would Wax have to ingest every possible metal in order to test what type of charge his earring has, or would there be some other way to tell what the charge is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Besides asking Harmony, he'd probably have to test himself. It's how mistings figure out what they have anyway. And yeah, they probably burn nonstop. Shouldn't be too difficult since the ministry was probably loaded with cash. Wonder how Marsh gets by now though. Maybe the kandra buy it for him? Apparently you can just burn the spike, but it hurts like hell. Edited October 15, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Besides asking Harmony, he'd probably have to test himself. It's how mistings figure out what they have anyway. And yeah, they probably burn nonstop. Shouldn't be too difficult since the ministry was probably loaded with cash. Wonder how Marsh gets by now though. Maybe the kandra buy it for him? Apparently you can just burn the spike, but it hurts like hell. You can either burn it and it hurts, you can't burn it or you can only burn it if it stole a piece of your spiritweb depending on which WoB you go by But it's iron and steel, if Marsh really needed some he could just take a file to a metal pylon I doubt he'd have much trouble getting by without. They're not exactly expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's always better to wash it down though. It probably tastes terrible. Speaking of, what does Marsh even eat? Compounded nutrition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's always better to wash it down though. It probably tastes terrible. Speaking of, what does Marsh even eat? Compounded nutrition? Harmony probably has some arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well, certain metals are required for certain types of charges. If he finds out what metal it is, and it does grant an allomantic power, he'll have it narrowed down to four at the most. Presumably, considering how many details were in Spook's book, this was in it, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksoncoco Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well, certain metals are required for certain types of charges. If he finds out what metal it is, and it does grant an allomantic power, he'll have it narrowed down to four at the most. Presumably, considering how many details were in Spook's book, this was in it, too. Are we sure that in world the characters know as much about the workings of hemalurgy as we do? How much did Spook know directly from Harmony or other sources, versus having to put together himself from observation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Are we sure that in world the characters know as much about the workings of hemalurgy as we do? How much did Spook know directly from Harmony or other sources, versus having to put together himself from observation? Well he likely knew what metal his own spike was so he might have mentioned at least that much but the odds of him knowing which metal steals temporal or enhancement abilities is pretty low, even TLR didn't really know, he thought Atium was needed for the temporal metals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well, Spook clearly knows some things we don't (about the blood, for example, which I believe was new to us) just as there might be things we've gotten from WoB or the Ars Arcanum or our POV of Marsh that he didn't know. On balance, "different metals do different things" is a simple enough thing that I'm confident Spook was aware, but we don't know for sure. After all, Vin and Elend took an accounting of the spikes that were in the Inquisitors, and knew that when they got new Feruchemical powers, they had more, and different metal, spikes. And that Koloss had iron spikes. The Steel Ministry knew for sure, and if he didn't get the knowledge from them, it would take a lot to convince me he didn't at least suspect. Also, the book (which we learn FRUSTRATINGLY little of) makes it sound like Spook was going to actually use hemalurgy; if he did, surely he learned that spikes must be the right metal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Probably, he'd notice the pattern of what compositions the metal in his spike, kandra blessings, and koloss spikes have pretty quickly, especially being mistborn and knowing feruchemists personally as a precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zea mays Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Could Wax's old ear-ring have granted him some healing power? I seem to recall he had quite a few bullet wounds, and in his mental narration he thinks being shot is no big deal. During the climax of SoS, he is annoyd that the bullet wound in his arm hurts so much, even though he has chewed pain-killers. This seems odd to him. By this point he has taken put his old ear-ring, so it is no longer in effect. Is there a way Harmony could have charged his old ear-ring with healing power? We now know he was always quite keen to protect and preserve Wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Could Wax's old ear-ring have granted him some healing power? I seem to recall he had quite a few bullet wounds, and in his mental narration he thinks being shot is no big deal. During the climax of SoS, he is annoyd that the bullet wound in his arm hurts so much, even though he has chewed pain-killers. This seems odd to him. By this point he has taken put his old ear-ring, so it is no longer in effect. Is there a way Harmony could have charged his old ear-ring with healing power? We now know he was always quite keen to protect and preserve Wax. The thinking was that it was Allomantic pewter, so he'd feel the pain less, heal a bit faster and just be able to power through it a bit easier. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 The thinking was that it was Allomantic pewter, so he'd feel the pain less, heal a bit faster and just be able to power through it a bit easier. Pewter that Harmony was only too happy to provide, I'd wager. (Through the "phantom metals" effect as imparted by Preservation!Vin and as felt by Elend during HoA) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zea mays Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Thank you. I confess that I never really got that much into the original Mistborn trilogy, or its magic system. Loving the Wax andWayne series though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) As far as getting any value out of the earring goes, it really depends on how degraded the Hemalurgic 'charge' can get. Despite not wearing it all the time, Vin's earring held enough of a charge to stay useful for Ruin's purposes (boosting her ability with Bronze and communication) but that was made to be a spike from the start and it wasn't that old by the end of the series. If Pathian earrings are made from melted down Steel Inquisitor spikes, it's possible they've lost enough of their charge through both that process and being 300+ years old to grant any useful ability other than providing a conduit for communicating with Harmony. Edit: Upon further reading of the descriptions, it does seem quite possible that's Vin's original earring he receives in the end. If so, depending on how low that minimum Hemalurgic charge is, it's possible Wax now has access to Bronze. Still don't think the regular Pathian earrings necessarily have enough charge to grant any powers, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Edited October 18, 2015 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikomis Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 If I remember a few various references correctly from both the first trilogy and AoL, Iron and Steel don't burn that quickly. Especially when you're just barely burning them to see the lines, compared to shooting or lurching. So between the low cost of those metals (iron and steel are generally readily available) and the slow burn, it wouldn't take much to fuel inquisitors' sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Iron and Steel don't burn that quickly. Especially when you're just barely burning them to see the lines, compared to shooting or lurching. Do you have a source for this? I ask because, "do you burn through steel faster when you push on something" is a question in my personal list of questions. The answer would fascinate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikomis Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Not off hand, I'll see if I can try to narrow it down in the trilogy after work. (Sometimes forums make me wish I read ebooks, it'd be more convincing!) I will admit though, I helped playtest the Mistborn tabletop. If it turns out I'm wrong about iron and steel, it may be due to rules review. I'd like someone to either help me corroborate or refute me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Actually, by the MAG, there is no difference in burn rate from actual pushing as opposed to simply burning it. Hrm. I wonder if there's a time in the books where someone is trying to detect steellines, and flares to do so better...The end of Final Empire and the end of Well of Ascension are two times when someone might have tried this trick that comes to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Actually, I'm almost positive that Wax did that in Shadows of Self in order to 'see' where Bleeder's spike was. Or maybe it was for those creatures. Either way, pretty certain it was done there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Wax does it to see TenSoon's spike; I do not recall whether or not he flared metal to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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