Thoughts on Sixth of the Dusk

[Blaze1616]

That doesn't mean that characters from First of the Sun haven't Worldhopped previous to Sixth of the Dusk. If Patji's Eye is indeed a splinter pool then it is probably pretty easy to travel to other worlds via the Cognitive Realm (Oh, and Wiery, thanks for the heads-up on the nomenclature. You're right, Shadesmar is the region of the realm for SA). 

 

Warbreaker spoiler (and obviously insane speculation just to make a point):

 

Tonk Fah has a parrot for a short while in Warbreaker. If we didn't know that he actually killed the bird, then we could have speculated that he is a Worldhopper from First of the Sun. If not that, then the bird could be an Aviar that he purchased on some black market, which would imply someone else Worldhopped to/from First to bring the parrot to Nalthis. If this were the case, maybe Tonk Fah doesn't even realize how special his parrot actually was? However, if I had to guess his parrot in Warbreaker is just coincidence.  

 

 

It would depend on just how long ago Aviar were a thing on First of the Sun. The story Sixth of the Dusk takes place during Era 4 Mistborn, according to a WoB I recall having read. There is a lot of time between where we currently are and where that will eventually be. That's what will decide whether we can see First of the Sun worldhoppers in the currently released books or not.

[Titan Arum]

It would depend on just how long ago Aviar were a thing on First of the Sun. The story Sixth of the Dusk takes place during Era 4 Mistborn, according to a WoB I recall having read. There is a lot of time between where we currently are and where that will eventually be. That's what will decide whether we can see First of the Sun worldhoppers in the currently released books or not.

 

We don't really know the history of the Eelkin or First of the Sun, so we have no idea how long the Aviar have been around...but we do know that they are invested (sans a Shard, and we have WoB that investiture effects planets like this by interacting with nature [see question 21]), which implies that this wasn't a new phenomena shortly before or during the setting of Sixth of the Dusk. If I had to guess, the Aviar, in their present state, have probably been around since shortly after the Shattering. (Maybe I'll ask this question at the Philly signing...)

 

Thus, with this, I'd argue it is possible that First of the Sun Worldhoppers could have been around earlier in the timeline, but probably weren't in any earlier works prior to 2013 because he didn't come up with the idea of the Aviar until Writing Excuses 8.16 in April, 2013. (Or so I  assume...if anyone knows otherwise, please correct me.)

[Blaze1616]

We don't really know the history of the Eelkin or First of the Sun, so we have no idea how long the Aviar have been around...but we do know that they are invested (sans a Shard, and we have WoB that investiture effects planets like this by interacting with nature [see question 21]), which implies that this wasn't a new phenomena shortly before or during the setting of Sixth of the Dusk. If I had to guess, the Aviar, in their present state, have probably been around since shortly after the Shattering. (Maybe I'll ask this question at the Philly signing...)

 

Thus, with this, I'd argue it is possible that First of the Sun Worldhoppers could have been around earlier in the timeline, but probably weren't in any earlier works prior to 2013 because he didn't come up with the idea of the Aviar until Writing Excuses 8.16 in April, 2013. (Or so I  assume...if anyone knows otherwise, please correct me.)

 

My only problem with this is that for a planet to have that kind of a tool (the Aviar) for so long, why are they so technologically behind so far in the future? This makes me believe that the Aviar, or at least humanity on First of the Sun, are relatively recent in terms of all of time.

 

However, as you note, information is largely lacking, and so your guess is as good as mine.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Blaze1616

[Turos]

Maybe the advancements in technology elsewhere are boosted by the influence of an actual Shard's presence, like Investiture on steroids, or direct Shard shepherding. If Mistborn Future Trilogy is where spaceships come from, it makes sense as Harmony is a very powerful Shard and still kicking.

[Blaze1616]

Maybe the advancements in technology elsewhere are boosted by the influence of an actual Shard's presence, like Investiture on steroids, or direct Shard shepherding. If Mistborn Future Trilogy is where spaceships come from, it makes sense as Harmony is a very powerful Shard and still kicking.

 

Though a Shard's presence probably helps, a society should still advance naturally. For Scadrial to go from medieval to space, even given an accelerated rate, that should still take thousands of years. If humanity did not have such useful tools as Aviars, maybe, maybe there is a sound argument for First of the Sun not advancing at all. But given Aviar, humanity should have advanced beyond where they seem to be.

 

That being said, we do not get to see actual civilization. The story does comment multiple times on how the world views Dusk's work as almost "barbaric," so it is possible they are more advanced than we are shown.

[Titan Arum]

Though a Shard's presence probably helps, a society should still advance naturally. For Scadrial to go from medieval to space, even given an accelerated rate, that should still take thousands of years. If humanity did not have such useful tools as Aviars, maybe, maybe there is a sound argument for First of the Sun not advancing at all. But given Aviar, humanity should have advanced beyond where they seem to be.

 

That being said, we do not get to see actual civilization. The story does comment multiple times on how the world views Dusk's work as almost "barbaric," so it is possible they are more advanced than we are shown.

Blaze, I don't quite agree with your argument. Humanity on Earlth didn't advance for a long time. For the vast majority of our history we were rather backwards...then the Industrial Revolution happened and our growth in technology was exponential. Further proof of this is that even in today's age on Earth, we have societies that are very primitive: the the San of the Kalahari desert, various "untouched" tribes in the Amazon, tribes in the north polar region, and tribes in Papua New Guinea. These are people who have very little technology in a world awash in high technology. If they haven't figured out how to build higher tech with their given resources, why should we assume that the Eelkin are able to as well?

 

If I had to wager, I'd say First of the Sun simply hasn't had their own version of the Industrial Revolution, and the One's Above are simply trying to ignite this to begin trading ethically. Heck, even Scadrial, which many believe to be the home world of the One's Above, didn't really revolutionize technologically until the fall of TLR. It seems to me that worlds with a Shard present are more likely to have had their version of an Industrial Revolution. The magic system is invested in the humans, which could lead to this advancement, whereas on First of the Sun the magic system simply prevails in nature in general. 

 

[Edited for grammatical clarity]

Edited January 23, 2015 by Titan Arum

[Blaze1616]

Blaze, I don't quite agree with your argument. Humanity on Earlth didn't advance for a long time. For the vast majority of our history we were rather backwards...then the Industrial Revolution happened and our growth in technology was exponential. Further proof of this is that even in today's age on Earth, we have societies that are very primitive: the the San of the Kalahari desert, various "untouched" tribes in the Amazon, tribes in the north polar region, and tribes in Papua New Guinea. These are people who have very little technology in a world awash in high technology. If they haven't figured out how to build higher tech with their given resources, why should we assume that the Eelkin are able to as well?

 

If I had to wager, I'd say First of the Sun simply hasn't had their own version of the Industrial Revolution, and the One's Above are simply trying to ignite this to begin trading ethically. Heck, even Scadrial, which many believe to be the home world of the One's Above, didn't really revolutionize technologically until the fall of TLR. It seems to me that worlds with a Shard present are more likely to have had their version of an Industrial Revolution. The magic system is invested in the humans, which could lead to this advancement, whereas on First of the Sun the magic system simply prevails in nature in general. 

 

I agree with you, which is why I have the small little paragraph at the end of my last post saying so. However, a few isolated examples is a lot different than an entire planet's population. Also, it is the presence of the Aviar specifically that makes it hard for me to find it believable that they haven't advanced. Again, it is entirely possible that First of the Sun has advanced, and Dusk's people are one of these isolated peoples.

[Turos]

Maybe the Aviars' abilities just don't correlate with industry like Allomancy does. Being dependant on birds can make things much more difficult, even if they seem to be more sentient. In my opinion, the magic with the best chance at FTL is fabrials from Roshar. They are more machine-like and, when understood, capable of performing the right way everytime.

[Blaze1616]

Maybe the Aviars' abilities just don't correlate with industry like Allomancy does. Being dependant on birds can make things much more difficult, even if they seem to be more sentient. In my opinion, the magic with the best chance at FTL is fabrials from Roshar. They are more machine-like and, when understood, capable of performing the right way everytime.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do not necessarily expect them to advance in a similar way to us. Not at all. But there still should have been some kind of advancement.

[Tyson]

Read this today and enjoyed it. I felt the Ones Above were slightly forced into the story, but I think it is a huge foreshadowing of future Cosmere books.

We know that there will be a Mistborn series that is in the future. I think Brandon's own words were "huge space opera" if I recall correctly. So it is safe to assume that the Ones Above are based on Scadrial as currently they are the only race that we know for sure will "sail the stars".

My theory is that Stormlight Archive will focus on defeating Odium. The future Mistborn series will focus on the reassembly of Aldonasium (pardon spelling).

Maybe the protagonist will travel between Cosmere planets collecting shards, splinters and other forms of investiture. I guess this is the story in which the 17th shard will feature more heavily either as protagonists or antagonists.

Sounds like something Brandon would have planned.

[Titan Arum]

Read this today and enjoyed it. I felt the Ones Above were slightly forced into the story, but I think it is a huge foreshadowing of future Cosmere books.

We know that there will be a Mistborn series that is in the future. I think Brandon's own words were "huge space opera" if I recall correctly. So it is safe to assume that the Ones Above are based on Scadrial as currently they are the only race that we know for sure will "sail the stars".

My theory is that Stormlight Archive will focus on defeating Odium. The future Mistborn series will focus on the reassembly of Aldonasium (pardon spelling).

Maybe the protagonist will travel between Cosmere planets collecting shards, splinters and other forms of investiture. I guess this is the story in which the 17th shard will feature more heavily either as protagonists or antagonists.

Sounds like something Brandon would have planned.

Tyson, you're making a lot of assumptions in your post. You best be careful, what with Brandon not always playing by the rules that we want to write for him!

 

For example, the best evidence we have points to the OA being from Scadrial; however we could be completely wrong since we don't know exactly where in the timeline Sixth of the Dusk is in the Cosmere. Other world's may have FTL travel at this point OR maybe some secret group that spans the Cosmere, like the 17th Shard, are the OA with FTL. 

[Tyson]

Yes it's a wild theory and I agree that there isn't enough information. But I'll happily place a wager that the Ones Above are heavily involved in a future Cosmere story arc. The way that they were crammed into a story where they were so out of place, it was like he had to get them in somewhere.

Regardless of our love for the Cosmere, we must remember that Brandon is a man, with a life beyond writing. The Cosmere isn't going to last forever, the flood of books (because he does publish them fast by anyones standards) will eventually slow to a trickle. It's a larger assumption to say that this wonderful multiverse he has created will last long enough for us to see any of the other shard worlds develop technology level to that of FTL.

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

I feel like the reassembly of Adonalsium will be a big enough event that it would be more likely to be in the Cosmere finale series, which I think I currently understand to be Dragonsteel.

[WeiryWriter]

I feel like the reassembly of Adonalsium will be a big enough event that it would be more likely to be in the Cosmere finale series, which I think I currently understand to be Dragonsteel.

 

Actually Dragonsteel is located near the beginning, space Mistborn is one of the (if not the) final sequences.

[LtGrimes618]

I absolutely loved the concept and the world building of this novella. I am dying to know if Brandon will expand it in the future into a series. Do you guys think he would and if so would the series belong to a preexisting world/series Brandon has already announced?

[LtGrimes618]

Do you think Brandon will expand on the story then?

[Titan Arum]

LtGrimes618, on 04 Feb 2015 - 6:05 PM, said:

I absolutely loved the concept and the world building of this novella. I am dying to know if Brandon will expand it in the future into a series. Do you guys think he would and if so would the series belong to a preexisting world/series Brandon has already announced?

We know that Brandon probably won't set another book on First of the Sun; however it doesn't mean this will be the last that we'll see of the Aviar and people from First of the Sun. My guess is that whoever the Ones Above are, we'll probably see their story associated with their visits to First of the Sun. Especially if they're from Scadrial, given that the Era-4 books will be set in the FTL time period.

Around Aug 13th, 2014, Brandon Sanderson said:

Question

"Sixth of the Dusk" doesn't have much that directly ties it to the Cosmere. Is this a world we'll see later?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not hugely important to the cosmere. We will see signs and hints of it, but don't expect a book set there.

(source

[Edit: A friendly forum etiquette reminder: if you want to add directly to something you've just written, try not to do a double post. Instead edit your original post. Cheers!]

Edited February 5, 2015 by Titan Arum

[Farnsworth]

Brandon plans his books ahead really well though - I think they are all going to mostly tie together, or at least he will make it seem like they should tie together, and it was his intention all along.