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2 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

=== OATHBRINGER SPOILERS START HERE. THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN MOVED ===

Where there is great theory, there must also be great bragging and therefore please allow me to say:

I FREAKING CALLED IT!

From what I see, this theory is case closed as of Oathbringer and is proven right. Now, as for the specifics for what is actually happening with Renarin as of the end of OB, I am going to type up my thoughts on that subject in another thread, since this theory is done with! But yes, for the mean time, consider this my warning that I will be utterly insufferable about calling this reveal for at least the next...

...forever.

Did anyone else see it coming as you were going through Oathbringer, or did Sanderson manage to convince you otherwise?

I think you were mostly right, not completely right. It might not be a surge and require Stormlight, but I don't think that you can rule out that Truthwatchers have more to the surge of Illumination than the Lightweavers have. They might normally have visions of what currently happen, like Shallan got when randomly sketching. But since Glys is corrupted (or "Elevated") by Sja-anat, they manifest as uncontrollable visions of the future rather than manageable ones. I don't think we'll know more about Truthwatchers until we more of Stump or other members of the others.

As for seeing it coming, it's strongly hinted at during Jasnah's spanreed with her colleagues. I just put it aside because I didn't want to believe it. Two answered things that I see is why Renarin is outside of the Diagram's and Odium's vision, and why he saw incorrect visions at the end of the book.

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5 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

=== OATHBRINGER SPOILERS START HERE. THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN MOVED ===

Where there is great theory, there must also be great bragging and therefore please allow me to say:

I FREAKING CALLED IT!

From what I see, this theory is case closed as of Oathbringer and is proven right. Now, as for the specifics for what is actually happening with Renarin as of the end of OB, I am going to type up my thoughts on that subject in another thread, since this theory is done with! But yes, for the mean time, consider this my warning that I will be utterly insufferable about calling this reveal for at least the next...

...forever.

Did anyone else see it coming as you were going through Oathbringer, or did Sanderson manage to convince you otherwise?

One little wrinkle here is the epigraph to chapter 85 of Oathbringer which I'll put in spoilers 

Spoiler

'Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this.' - From drawer 30-20, a particularly small emerald

We know that the gemstone used for recording corresponds to the order which makes this a Truthwatcher quote. That could mean one of two things. Either Truthwatchers could also see the future but it was still considered highly taboo to speak about, this would mean Renarin followed a different route to the same destination or that Renarin was not the first to bond a corrupted Truthwatcher spren to gain this ability (I do feel that the pre-recreance Radiants would definitely have spotted this though).

Edit: I suppose he could also mean he was just very farsighted in a conventional way but that doesn't fit with the context to me

 

 

Edited by Dlyol
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10 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

Did anyone else see it coming as you were going through Oathbringer, or did Sanderson manage to convince you otherwise?

I saw it kind of coming when Sja-anat refered to her son. He would have had to be one of the Radiantspren Shallan knows. Jasnah not being able to spot the correct Truthwatcher spren around Renarin hightened my suspicions and in the end I feared for Renarins life. I was positively surprised that Jasnah thought better than killing him. The most intriguing implication about that is that the visions of the future can be wrong, even if they come from Odium.

On a larger scale, also Odium has the same problem. He did not see Dalinar resisting him. For Dalinar, it could be explained by Cultivations interference. Renarin also is a wildcard for Odium, Odium cannot foresee his actions into the future, as is shown with the explanding diagram. Taravangian's genius self seems insignificant compared with Odiums future sight, but: The display shows to Taravangian that Renarin Kholin is a wildcard to Odium and therefore a danger to Odiums plans. Renarin should quickly learn to defend himself.

The reason for Renarin's status as wildcard is perhaps the "corrupted" nature of Glys. Glys now is a mixture of Cultivation/Odium, Honor/Odium or Honor/Cultivation/Odium. This mixing of Investitures could also be what makes his visions of the future imperfect.

Glys hides inside Renarin. Makes me wonder if Renarin is forming a gemheart (perhaps as a kidney stone).

Edit: The first hint that Glys is no pure Radiantspren we got when Renarin showed his Glysblade to Adolin. It consisted of layers like it had been forged. Could this be the mixture of Honor/Cultivation and Odium Investiture?

@FeatherWriter: Have fun bragging about the correct theory. You have earned it! I am looking forward to hear you brag about it in upcoming Shardcasts.

Edited by Pattern
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  • Pagerunner changed the title to [OB] Renarin's Visions and Truthwatching [Moved and Updated for OB!]

@DiamondMind @Dlyol So, while there's a lot of speculation in this theory that wasn't necessarily right, the heart of the theory and its foundational aspect was that Renarin's visions were not a normal expression of Surgebinding and were probably voidish in nature. Which, yep. Nailed it. It's still possible that other Truthwatchers might have had a method of foresight or that their Illumination might work differently from Lightweavers or stuff like that but at this theory's heart, it was correct.

Renarin's visions are not natural Surgebinding, and Oathbringer confirms it!

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I'm still very confused as to what Renarin is. And what Glys is.

Renarin and Glys appear to be on Team Honor after all. Glys was corrupted by Sja-Anat.

Was Glys a bondspren who got corrupted to a voidspren, then defected back to Honor? Was Glys a bondspren who got corrupted, tried to corrupt Renarin, and then got his mind changed instead of Renarin's?

Is Renarin a really weird KR, a really weird voidbinder, or something in between? Or something totally different?

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5 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

I'm still very confused as to what Renarin is. And what Glys is.

Renarin and Glys appear to be on Team Honor after all. Glys was corrupted by Sja-Anat.

Was Glys a bondspren who got corrupted to a voidspren, then defected back to Honor? Was Glys a bondspren who got corrupted, tried to corrupt Renarin, and then got his mind changed instead of Renarin's?

Is Renarin a really weird KR, a really weird voidbinder, or something in between? Or something totally different?

Something in between. Like Venli. Something... New. 

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