Vortaan Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Doesn't have to be luck. Spook was literally just stabbed by a sword, it hitting the right spot was Ruin's fault. You do have a point though. I always assumed the man who stabbed Spook was mentally unbalanced and prone to being influenced by Ruin, like Vin's mom. Wax is prone to being influenced by Harmony, but considering how Harmony is acting lately, and the fact that at that particular point in time Wax seemed to be frustrated with his part in Harmony's plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Paalm could be simply inexperienced with Allomancy and Feruchemy, this could explain why she doesn't do spectacular things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Paalm could be simply inexperienced with Allomancy and Feruchemy, this could explain why she doesn't do spectacular things. Given MeLaan's speculation that she impersonated Inquisitors in the past, I don't know that that's true. She should also be aware at least of the kinds of things she could be doing, if not from her own experience than from partnering with Wax for twenty years and hunting down outlaws in the Roughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 An argument I have about the new shard not being Odium. 1) Odium is incredibly scared of Harmony. I was under the impression Odium was saving him for last. 2) The official Timeline is vague on this, but doesn't Stormlight and Shadows of Self take place at roughly the same time? If so, Odium would be a little busy dealing with The Knights Radiant. Autonomy makes perfect sense, especially with Paalm's whole thing about not being controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) You are assuming she was double spiked. It is only said it was one of the spikrs she had. That could mean she carries a bag full of spikes of different types or charges. Indeed I am, and I know that's not for certain. However, some of the things she did being called impossible in-world suggests that using a god metal spike charged a specific way could help, for instance, a Kandra gain Allomantic and Feruchemical powers. Any explanation has to balance its assumptions with its explanatory power in terms of Occam's razor. I think assuming Bavadin's involvement and that Paalm was using his spike the whole time explains things very neatly, (as there's a couple things she seemed to do that staying spiked with the God Metal spike might make easier) but I am definitely open to equally- or more elegant theories. It is also entirely possible that the alien God Metal spike is just what Paalm used to make her super-zombies. (In which case, it would require Bavadin's active interference to make them, and it would arguably make him a much worse candidate for Trell, as that might violate his Intent) That is... Interesting. They would suffer no decay while inside, but she would have to remove them all before switching spikes, so her mistwraith self doens't absorve multiple spikes at once. Or she could keep the spikes in some sort of container embedded in her flesh. (Didn't Vin have Tensoon carry allomantic vials at one point? I know for sure she had him carry an Atium bead) No chance of spiking accidentally, but she'd have to open the container and swap ones whenever changing spikes. If Paalm is changing spikes on the run, she has to have some way to carry them, and I'd imagine a Kandra would carry secret magical weapons inside their flesh if possible. Edited October 11, 2015 by Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Indeed I am, and I know that's not for certain. However, some of the things she did being called impossible in-world suggests that using a god metal spike charged a specific way could help, for instance, a Kandra gain Allomantic and Feruchemical powers. I only meant she only had one active spike at once. I do not disagree that the spikes that gave her allomancy are made of Trellium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) I only meant she only had one active spike at once. I do not disagree that the spikes that gave her allomancy are made of Trellium. Good point. It's possible she had a single "trellium" spike that stole allomancy. It's possible she had a regular allomantically charged spike and a "trellium" spike, which together somehow allow her to gain allomantic abilities, while also gaining other abilities "Trell" Invested into his or her spike. I'm not ruling out either at this stage, although I would agree it could be a simpler explanation if Trell simply made some direct observations into Wax's mind, and that Paalm was using single, allomantically-charged or feruchemically-charged Trellium spikes the whole time, and Wax was wrong when he observes that she could have been using two spikes. edit: In some ways, a single Trellium spike would make a lot of sense in terms of how Paalm acted, especially if Autonomy is Trell. Edited October 11, 2015 by Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) An argument I have about the new shard not being Odium. 1) Odium is incredibly scared of Harmony. I was under the impression Odium was saving him for last. 2) The official Timeline is vague on this, but doesn't Stormlight and Shadows of Self take place at roughly the same time? If so, Odium would be a little busy dealing with The Knights Radiant. Autonomy makes perfect sense, especially with Paalm's whole thing about not being controlled. AoL era takes place after SA, although how long remains to be seen. It is speculated to be any of the following; alongside yet just after WoK/WoR In the break between each half Could be after SA as a whole I'm of the opinion many share that it is an Alloy of Odium and Autonomy, as it was described with red flecks wasn't it? Although i'm a little sceptical Edited October 12, 2015 by ParadoxSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 AoL era takes place after SA, although how long remains to be seen. It is speculated to be any of the following; alongside yet just after WoK/WoR In the break between each half Could be after SA as a whole I'm of the opinion many share that it is an Alloy of Odium and Autonomy, as it was described with red flecks wasn't it? Although i'm a little sceptical I've heard elsewhere it's in the break between SA5 and SA6. Paalm was also coating the spikes in blood for hemalurgical effect, (she seems to have a suspiciously good knowledge of hemalurgy...) so it's possible that the red flecks are coincidental because of that. An alloy of the two is an interesting idea though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm of the opinion many share that it is an Alloy of Odium and Autonomy, as it was described with red flecks wasn't it? That isn't actually how alloying works. Bronze isn't copper with patches of tin; it's a new metal formed by the two metals "baked" together. That's sorta like saying you should be able to see splotches of egg in your finished cake. Paalm was also coating the spikes in blood for hemalurgical effect Is this confirmed somewhere? The only reference I recall is Spook saying that coating the spikes in blood would work. Does it say anywhere that this is what Bleeder does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 That isn't actually how alloying works. Bronze isn't copper with patches of tin; it's a new metal formed by the two metals "baked" together. That's sorta like saying you should be able to see splotches of egg in your finished cake. Is this confirmed somewhere? The only reference I recall is Spook saying that coating the spikes in blood would work. Does it say anywhere that this is what Bleeder does? I'll have to check SoS but I recalled that Wax thought she was doing this. I might misremember though, it's easy to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 There's a line when they find Idashwy's body that suggests that it might be what she's doing. But that's before they even know there's a kandra involved, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 "In the old days, Inquisitors had driven the spike right through the body of the one to be killed into the body of the person to gain the powers. That prevented any power from being lost. Apparently, coating the newly made spike in blood could achieve a similar effect." It does not suggest that this is what Bleeder is doing. It's merely commenting that this is a possibility. Maybe Bleeder is doing it, but it's not suggested by this line, any more than "burgers exist" suggests I'm having a burger for lunch today. If Bleeder were coating spikes in bloody, I would have expected the crime scene to be messier. The body exsanguinated, maybe. I mean, if you want to just decide that she did it, you can justify the lack of clues however you want. But there aren't really any clues to suggest that she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) That isn't actually how alloying works. Bronze isn't copper with patches of tin; it's a new metal formed by the two metals "baked" together. That's sorta like saying you should be able to see splotches of egg in your finished cake. Aye, posting that whilst half awake on night shifts seemed like a good idea at the time. What is the actual colour of the spike as something is bugging me about what Mile said at the end of AoL but I can't remember the exact wording was Idle thought; could the Southern Scadrians be involved? Edited October 12, 2015 by ParadoxSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Aye, posting that whilst half awake on night shifts seemed like a good idea at the time. What is the actual colour of the spike as something is bugging me about what Mile said at the end of AoL but I can't remember the exact wording was Idle thought; could the Southern Scadrians be involved? I saw an interesting theory the Set was working with the Southerners, who wanted the resources of Elendel Basin, and that was why they were able to recover from the events from AoL and still have enough aluminium to arm their thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormcrown Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm going to disagree with the fact that Sazed gave up the extra part of Ruin. Preservation created the prison, and why would Harmony not be able to simply recover it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Mind blown. The men of red and gold, bearers of the final metal. A metal of two colors... I sorta wondered though. Can a single homogenous metal be two colors? Or is that just a God metal thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 But the metal is silvery with red spots, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm going to disagree with the fact that Sazed gave up the extra part of Ruin. Preservation created the prison, and why would Harmony not be able to simply recover it? Because then the balance is tipped, and he'll be slowly corrupted into something that wants to end the world. With nothing to stop him, and twice as strong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngy Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'd assumed the extra Ruin was placed inside the Koloss. Hence the "even Koloss have a choice" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngy Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 As for Paalm. She can swap out allomantic/feruchemical spikes - somehow using them (when apparently kandra shouldn't be able to - I'd actually assumed the should... Why not?). This could be something to do with the new metal... But could it be just a missunderstanding? Maybe kandra can? She can talk into a person's mind if they are hemalurgically spiked. This is more interesting. It isn't something we've seen outside of Shardic power before is it? I was tempted to say that it was another Shard speaking to him all along - in some places the choice of words certainly could be - but in others it sounds like it has to be Paalm talking... Or that the other Shard is trying hard to make Wax think that's what Paalm is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 But the metal is silvery with red spots, unfortunately. Yes; I was on my phone last night and my thumbs were not up to writing out my complete thoughts; If this is silver with red, perhaps it has an alloy that is gold with red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Something is bugging me about the dark red spots; in book, the description compares the spots to the colour of rust then we have the frequent curse of 'Rusts and Ruin!' Granted when we see red we automatically think Odium but could it be possible for an alloy/ base metal that has visibly rusted be used to access Feruchemy/Allomancy? As for it being from a Shard we know; Would Harmony necessarily recognise Harmonium/insertotheralloynameforlerasium-atrium alloy if hadn't never existed before? Granted, it's tenuous idea but given the entirely opposite Investitures he uses, it would be understandable he wouldn't recognise something that is a complete fusion of both Investitures (completely alien to him) Paalm after all was still in the mindset she had whilst under TLR and although he was a Sliver, he wasn't the most cosmere savvy (although he knew a few tricks about Haemalurgy and that was from Preservation's Shardpool) TL:TC - I propose the silver metal is Harmonium and red flecks are just rust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 That isn't actually how alloying works. Bronze isn't copper with patches of tin; it's a new metal formed by the two metals "baked" together. That's sorta like saying you should be able to see splotches of egg in your finished cake. How did you hear about my cake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypatia Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Was rust even a problem in the first trilogy? You would think in a world based on metal, corrosion would be fatal. And with Ruin who had wanted to ruin everything this could be a natural consequence. I can't stop thinking of slowly rusting spikes, of possible results using such a metal for allomantic means - it's like a metal decease. On the other hand Aluminium and this mistings could come in handy as corrosion protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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