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[Spoilers] Shadows of Self Full Book Reactions

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I got the impression that Sazed knew about these from his harmony-powers. I think in Alloy Marasi notes that the Words of Founding foretold all of the recent technological innovation and additional future ones, like flying machines.

 

Ah fair enough, I forgot that was mentioned before. I suppose I was caught off guard when Wax didn't recognize it (as if it wasn't in the Words of Founding/Historica), and it seemed people often talked or thought about various things that were in the Words of Founding/Historica (not that these details are very memorable, compared to the myths/heros/monsters, clearly).

 

Though also as mentioned, Sazed does lingeringly mention "others" who may have developed such tech, and the southern people is the only other major civilization on Scadrial, to my knowledge.

Edited by xekrar
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I was absolutely shocked beyond words at the reveal at the end. I never even considered the possibility that Wax could have been guarded by a kandra for such a long time. It boggles the mind and it slams on your emotions, to kno that Harmony really can be the amoral, neutral God that MeLaan offhandedly said he was, and yet still feel very human disgust and discomfort about his role in the Cosmere.

And this new metal is even more shocking. It raises so many theories about just how varied Hemalurgy really is, and why Brandon is so slippery about a complete table of Hemalurgic thefts. I for one will look forward to the feverish Theorycrafting that will ensue over just how much we really don't know about Hemalurgy...

The coolest part of the story, as always, was Wayne being Wayne. Brandon writes him so well!

EDIT: And where is the rest of the Ruin Shard??? We STILL don't know where Harmony put it or what he's using it to do...

Edited by TheOneKEA
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Just dropping by to leave this WoB here:

 

If Odium went to Scadrial, would he be blind to metal there?
BRANDON SANDERSON

Um. [nervous laugh] Um...

JOSH

Because I think you mentioned more than once that focuses are actually determined by planet.

BRANDON SANDERSON

I'm going to RAFO that. But that's one of those excellent questions. I'm amused that people have figured out enough to be asking questions like that.

source

Thought it was interesting and rather relevant to a certain Hemalurgy related new element presented in the book.

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Just dropping by to leave this WoB here:

 

If Odium went to Scadrial, would he be blind to metal there?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Um. [nervous laugh] Um...

JOSH

Because I think you mentioned more than once that focuses are actually determined by planet.

BRANDON SANDERSON

I'm going to RAFO that. But that's one of those excellent questions. I'm amused that people have figured out enough to be asking questions like that.

source

Thought it was interesting and rather relevant to a certain Hemalurgy related new element presented in the book.

Nice catch. Especially with WaW being set after SA. This also works with the idea of a Parshendi world-hopper, if Parshendi turn out to be able to make Nahel bonds.

As for a reaction to the novel? That was one hell of an emotional roller coaster. Im happy to hear Sazed again. I hate Sazed. I have mixed emotion about Sazed, and the entire cast. Why does Brandon do this to my heart, he's gonna give me a heart attack one day.

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Loved it. But man "I killed her again" followed by breakdown, I died inside a little. Similar to how I felt about Elend and Vin deaths.

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Another thing: We now have context for 1) Hoid's reference to Ati's warped perspective and 2) why exactly Rayse splinters his victims instead of absorbing them. Because I don't see that pre-Ascension Sazed would ever condone the Lessie plot, at least, not the end of it.

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My first reaction was, Man, Brandon, you are a sadistic SOB.  Then wow, cool stuff!  What was that metal?!?!?  OOhh Shardpool!  Oooh HOID!  Hemalurgy still a no no, Spook.  Hey, another reference to God Beyond.  Interesting!
So much stuff!!!!!

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I am seriosuly disappointed with harmony for keeping this hidden. He should have told wax "look, lessie was a kandra all along, I planted her to influence you, but she actuallly loved you, so she didn't want to manipulate you, so she decided to bring me down and went crazy and started killing people".

 

I'm sure wax would have agreed that lessie needed to be stopped. just as he would have shot wayne. just as he faced his former colleague miles, or his uncle. he wouldn't have left innocents be killed like that. And while he may have been mad at harmony for trying to plant a kandra as his lover (though the fact that she came to actually love him should at least offer serious mitigation; I mean, I wouldn't be so mad at someone planting an agent close to me if she turned out to be my genuine true love), wax would have certainly been less mad than he was by having it broke up to him that way. If nothing else, that reveal just threatened to make wax fail at the wrong time.

 

Aside from that, I see a potential continuity error: at some point, MeLaan said that Paalm was a very good impersonator, and only tensoon was better. But wasn't it established that tensoon was actually a poor impersonator?

 

On another line, I spot a potential romance between Wayne and MeLaan. By the way, I am surprised that wayne, that normally understand people so well, is still taken with ranette. hasn't he figured out she's lesbian by now?

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On another line, I spot a potential romance between Wayne and MeLaan. By the way, I am surprised that wayne, that normally understand people so well, is still taken with ranette. hasn't he figured out she's lesbian by now?

Does he actually understand anything about sex?  He can make crude jokes as well as anyone, but it seems like it is an almost childish outlook on the world. He is constantly trying to take what cant have.  

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So Lord Ruler's superspy fell in love with a lawman for hire. Beat that Romeo and Juliet.

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Aw, man. Man! I caught on Paalm being Lessie all along about 5 pages before Wax did, and let me tell, that was worse. Harmony's hands, Brandon, Era 2 was supposed to be lighter! "I killed her again!" is going to be one of those lines that stays with me for a long time - right up there with Kelsier's "I am hope." and Kaladin's "The winds are mine." 

 

But who am I kidding, strong emotions stay in my brain for no more than 3 seconds if there is Cosmere knowledge to be had! I'll keep things short though, since most of these points deserve their own threads.

  • Hoid! Come on, you old scoundrel, you are not even hiding these days. 
  • Another Shard! Potentially! I don't think it's Odium (Bleeder didn't feel like someone who was moved by hatred, she was driven and determined, hateful too, but the hatred felt like... a side effect. A byproduct. It felt like normal hate). I am hearing that Bavadin's Shard is Autonomy, and Paalm was definitely big on the freedom thing. Like, Big On The Freedom Thing. I am calling the new Shard Trell for now though.
  • New metal! And it works with at least one Metallic Art! I hereby dub thee trellium. I am very very curious to find out what it actually does - Paalm's final spike, gave her Allomantic steel, and it was a trellium spike, so did it allow her to steal any power? This warrants more thought.
  • A Shardpool! That lake from the broadsheets is definitely a Shardpool, probably Harmony's. 
  • Steris! You glorious, glorious woman. I smiled and laughed at her interactions with Wax more than I did at Wayne's. I want her to be(come) Metalborn so she gets more screen time, so to speak.
  • Wax made a few passing references to something that happened in the Village, something important. I think it was implied that this event is what made him realize there are criminals even among the Terrismen.
  • We were right that somebody was hijacking the Hemalurgic channels! How, though, I have no idea. Maybe Bavadin's Investiture - if he is Trell - lets users mimic other magic systems? Allowing them to be autonomous, in a way. This could account for both the new spikes and the hijacking.

Gah, there is so much! I can't keep it concise, I'll have to go in other threads too...

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oh man that was great just the thing I needed to get me back into Sandrson books and back on the 17th shard 

 

my one problem was that I overslept this morning and had to go to work as soon as I got up. Ii had just enough time to download the book before I left then i had to spend the whole day thinking about how awesome it would be when I got home and could start reading... let me tell you that makes for a very very long shift  :(  totally worth it though. :)

 

I do wonder who is this Shard that's calling themselves Trell is it Odeum,  Bavadin or someone else that we don't know about?

 

personally I don't think it's a coincidence that Brandon unveiled Bavadin's intent right after the books release but knowing Brandon this could be a read herring.

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I jotted down some thoughts:

Harmony talking about the others, I assume the SoScads. I really hope we hear from them at SOME point in WaW, but it wouldn't surprise me to miss First Contact entirely, it happening somewhere between WaW and the 1980's trilogy. If we see them now, it seems likely that it will be them contacting the Elendites rather than the other way around, since they apparently have better tech.

 

Interesting that Steris swears in Harmony's name, like Wax and Innate. They are both supposed to be Pathians, but Steris is a Survivorist. I wonder how that works.

 

Love the term "Roughian" that Innate uses.

 

Wayne is amazing, of course. In particular his "Temple of the Common Man" chapter. Brilliant. Loved his sparks with MeLaan. Loved everything that he said.

 

Hoid's appearance amused me. In WoR he appears as a carriage driver, and the actual carriage driver who switches out with him is described wearing a strange hat. Now in this, he's on a first-name basis with Wayne, who primarily knows him as a carriage driver.

 

Love the new nomenclature we've been given. Catacendre, Remarked Duplicity, etc.

 

When I saw the first broadsheet page with the VISITORS from OTHER WORLDS picture, I was like "Iyatil!" and then when it revealed the rest of the face, I laughed. I wonder if Brandon designed the pages with that exact joke in mind, obscuring the beard until you've practically forgotten about the picture in the first place.

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Speaking of that temple.

"A picture of Old Ladrian himself hung over the altar, a man with a ripe paunch and a cup thrust forward, as if to demand attention."

Seems more like he was demanding alcohol to me, but either way it's a accurate depiction I suppose.

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Seems like literally every portrait of Breeze is him, with a winecup, waving it about. Which is not awfully surprising, considering that post-Catecendre people must've thought the cup is a natural extension of his hand...

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Does anyone know who the Counselor of Gods is?  That person has apparently written a Seven volume collection of political musings that Marasai notes while digging up the Governors dirty laundry.I'd assume it's someone from the original trilogy but I can't think of who it is from the survivors.  My guess would be Breeze but wouldn't they just call him Breeze.

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It has to be Breeze. Since Wax is a descendant of the Counselor, and since both share the family name of Ladrian, it can't be anyone else.

 

As to why they don't call him Breeze, they don't call any of the original crew members by their real (or preferred) names. Wax was thinking about this when he was in the kandra Homeland, I think, something about the original names being near holy.

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Edwarn says House Ladrian descended from the Counselor of Gods himself, IIRC, so yes that would be him.

The guy only gives advice at most. He never actually does things, it works out.

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Yeah, Breeze was always quite fond of marinating himself, as TenSoon noted.

Edited by Landis963
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Love the new nomenclature we've been given. Catacendre, Remarked Duplicity, etc.

 

 

 

Somebody clue me in to what Remarked Duplicity was referring to. I didn't spend much time trying to puzzle it out at the time and now I'm too wiped out to go back and reread in context.

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Somebody clue me in to what Remarked Duplicity was referring to. I didn't spend much time trying to puzzle it out at the time and now I'm too wiped out to go back and reread in context.

 

In context, it's about TenSoon and the kandra being forced to do something. Presumably, it's when Ruin took control of them/some kandra decided not to pull their spikes or something.

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I am pretty sure it refers to TenSoon's murder and replacement of OreSeur. 

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Ah, that makes much more sense.

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It took me an awful long time to realize that the earring Wax was given by Melaan must be a spike of some sort. Probably pewter? Wax did manage to keep going during Alloy of Law after some terrible beatings. However, he also managed to do so during Shadows while *not* wearing the earring. Maybe he's just an all around awesome tough guy.

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Since no one has brought this up(I think), I have to point out this detail with cosmeric implications. :P  When Wax was chatting with Harmony, Hoid was sitting on top of the carriage. Now that is definitely not a coincidence. Chances are Hoid came to Scadrial specifically for the chance to eavesdrop Harmony. So how did Hoid plan to hear the conversation since it was taking place inside Wax's head? Maybe he had spiked himself too? If Hoid indeed managed to hear Harmony how might he use this knowledge about Harmony's intent and limitations. What are the chances that Harmony took notice of Hoid? 

 

Hoid and Wayne were together for an entire ride and we don't know what they talked about. This scene is  begging to be written.

Edited by [email protected]
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