Two Hoids? Maybe?

[RippleGylf]

So I've been rereading the Mistborn trilogy, this time actually with knowledge about the cosmere, and I noticed something somewhat odd.

 

So, WoK is where we get most of our Hoid characterization. This witty, sarcastic character is very noticeable in his appearance in Warbreaker. However, the Hoid we see in Elantris and Mistborn is a humble, low-class person helping out the good guys. The Hoid we know and love borrowed his name from someone else. Could this someone else be another worldhopper, the Hoid we see in Elantris and Mistborn? 

 

Thoughts? Counterproof? This is going on a stretch, but I wanted to see what you guys think.

[SOM1else]

I'm going to put this in spoilers because it has to deal with DragonSteel and I can't remember what the spoiler rules are for unpublished works on this board.

iirc Hoids real name is Midius and the original Hoid was Midius mentor during the events of Dragonsteel. The original Hoid dies in the first few pages and and Midius uses Hoids name as a cover in every cosmere book. The details are a little fuzzy because it's all coming from a sample chapter I read on Brandon's website years ago and when I looked for today it had been taken down. If anyone can clarify any details feel free to chime in. I think the personality differences might just be due to how little screen time Hoid gets in Mistborn and Elantris

[ParadoxicalZen]

Take into account that Hoid is a Lightweaving storyteller, and a rather talented one at that so acting out different personas will come easily to him. Factoring in his advanced age as well can also give himself a bit of an edge at reading and understanding different kinds of people, similarly to the way Wayne adapts to whatever hat he's wearing 

[Ari]

Yep, ParadoxSpren has a perfectly good explanation that fits with Occam's Razor a bit better. There are already other worldhoppers around that don't identify themselves similarly, so the only reason they'd have to pretend to be Hoid is to throw people like the in-universe Seventeenth Shard off the track, and we have no evidence so far that Hoid's connected with any other worldhoppers. In fact you could argue his letter to Frost implies otherwise.

[DreamEternal]

And the reply to the letter refers to Wit as his "current incarnation", meaning that as he took a disguise he was fond of he also took a new persona of sorts, like how Veil is another version of Shallan.

[ParadoxicalZen]

And the reply to the letter refers to Wit as his "current incarnation", meaning that as he took a disguise he was fond of he also took a new persona of sorts, like how Veil is another version of Shallan.

 

There's something about that wording that is niggling at me but I'm not sure if i'm reading too much into it

[Titan Arum]

PardoxSpren, I actually believe that Hoid is immortal...through reincarnation. Here's some evidence based upon a conversation between Dalinar and Wit from WoK, chapter 54 that lead me (in my early days on the 17th Shard) to create a topic on his potential ability to reincarnate/resurrect:

 

 

 Dalinar: "Wait, you're leaving?"

Wit: "I must. I hope to return. I'll do so if I'm not killed. Probably will anyway."

 

To me, the "probably will anyway" implies that he can die but recover or reincarnate. We have WoB that suggest he can indeed recover catastrophic injuries including beheading and having his soul severed by a Shardblade. (For time savings purposes, these WoB can be found in the link above). However, we don't know exactly how he can do this. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Titan Arum

[ParadoxicalZen]

PardoxSpren, I actually believe that Hoid is immortal...through reincarnation. Here's some evidence based upon a conversation between Dalinar and Wit from WoK, chapter 54 that lead me (in my early days on the 17th Shard) to create a topic on his potential ability to reincarnate/resurrect:

 

 

 

To me, the "probably will anyway" implies that he can die but recover or reincarnate. We have WoB that suggest he can indeed recover catastrophic injuries including beheading and having his soul severed by a Shardblade. (For time savings purposes, these WoB can be found in the link above). However, we don't know exactly how he can do this. 

 

Aye there is something fishy about it, but I can't quite decide on an intepretation. I'm not sure whether its either Hoid's acting and magic skills, an ability to manifest multiple personalities yet still be the same person or if it is something similar to reincarnation/avatar creation.

 

It reminds me of a book i read a while back (I think adapted from the EVE online game) where an overarching character bio-engineered genetic clones of himself but each was designed to be vastly different in looks etc as he was the ultimate spy/corporation CEO etc.

 

EDIT: spelling

Edited October 6, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Chaos]

I'm going to put this in spoilers because it has to deal with DragonSteel and I can't remember what the spoiler rules are for unpublished works on this board.

iirc Hoids real name is Midius and the original Hoid was Midius mentor during the events of Dragonsteel. The original Hoid dies in the first few pages and and Midius uses Hoids name as a cover in every cosmere book. The details are a little fuzzy because it's all coming from a sample chapter I read on Brandon's website years ago and when I looked for today it had been taken down. If anyone can clarify any details feel free to chime in. I think the personality differences might just be due to how little screen time Hoid gets in Mistborn and Elantris

This is fine to post because it is from the Liar of Partinel sample chapter.

[Silverblade5]

PardoxSpren, I actually believe that Hoid is immortal...through reincarnation. Here's some evidence based upon a conversation between Dalinar and Wit from WoK, chapter 54 that lead me (in my early days on the 17th Shard) to create a topic on his potential ability to reincarnate/resurrect:

To me, the "probably will anyway" implies that he can die but recover or reincarnate. We have WoB that suggest he can indeed recover catastrophic injuries including beheading and having his soul severed by a Shardblade. (For time savings we purposes, these WoB can be found in the link above). However, we don't know exactly how he can do this.

Nope. At the Denver signing, he was asked if Hoid was a time lord, and he say no.

[Ari]

This is fine to post because it is from the Liar of Partinel sample chapter.

 

Good to know, I got dinged by someone a bit back for mentioning the existing of Liar of Partinel's sample and that it was relevant to Hoid.

 

Nope. At the Denver signing, he was asked if Hoid was a time lord, and he say no.

 

He can be a non-timelord that can reincarnate as a new person somehow, however, so whether someone is a timelord is kinda a very specific and non-helpful question to ask.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

Yep, ParadoxSpren has a perfectly good explanation that fits with Occam's Razor a bit better. There are already other worldhoppers around that don't identify themselves similarly, so the only reason they'd have to pretend to be Hoid is to throw people like the in-universe Seventeenth Shard off the track, and we have no evidence so far that Hoid's connected with any other worldhoppers. In fact you could argue his letter to Frost implies otherwise.

 

 

Actually Vasher knows Hoid. you can tell because he calls him by the name he used as the storyteller in Warbreaker when Kaladin refers to him in conversation.

[Ari]

Actually Vasher knows Hoid. you can tell because he calls him by the name he used as the storyteller in Warbreaker when Kaladin refers to him in conversation.

 

That Vasher knows who Hoid is does not imply at all that they are working together, or that Hoid even knows Vasher is on Roshar. Now, if we see them suspiciously trying to reach the same overall goals, then that's a different story.

[TwelfthOfSnackTime]

_{That Vasher knows who Hoid is does not imply at all that they are working together, or that Hoid even knows Vasher is on Roshar. Now, if we see them suspiciously trying to reach the same overall goals, then that's a different story.}

 

 

 

_{Sorry I didn't mean to infer that they were co-conspirators, just that at least Vasher knows about Hoid. Most likely Hoid is aware of Vasher too. I would be very surprised if he wasn't.}

[Ari]

_{Sorry I didn't mean to infer that they were co-conspirators, just that at least Vasher knows about Hoid. Most likely Hoid is aware of Vasher too. I would be very surprised if he wasn't.}

 

My take on it was that their goals aren't actively opposing each other yet so they're sticking to their own spaces and doing their own thing, and we haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, so it seems perfectly reasonable to assume Hoid is going it alone, like he always has in the past.