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Shadows of Self Tour: Chicago / Oak Brook, IL


Argent

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  • I asked Brandon if Bleeder died with one spike made of the unknown metal, or if she had another, regular, spike as well. You know, just for a confirmation, because the wording was ambiguous. Which he confirmed, he didn't intend us to wonder about which one of those actually the case, it's not a big mystery. ONLY HE WOULDN'T REVEAL IT TO ME! He said he'd heard about how divided we are in the interpretation of this, so he is going to let us sit on our theories until the end of the tour. We can then ask Peter to give us the answer.

 

So, I asked Peter about this and he hasn't replied. He's probably too busy right now with BoM stuff. Maybe in a few days someone else could try.

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Thanks.

 

So far as the Q&A goes, I can verify just from memory that there was nothing cosmerically interesting there.

 

Too true, I was the only one who asked about something "In Lore" rather than writing and author advice,

And my question was a simple one I just wanted clarification on:

Q: "We know that Elantrian magic weakens as it gets further from Arelon. Does the magic of Dhakor and Forging have the same problem?"

A: "Yes, a lot less pronounced in the Monks due to its nature, but Forging has a similar limit."

I had a feeling that the "grafting" nature of Dhakor, inscribing the symbols onto/into a person would "anchor" the magic a bit better than Elantrian magic, but this confirms it... At least to an extent.

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Interesting on the Dakhor monks. My suspicion is that they are sorta near-permanently Invested, and will just slowly leak Dor from their bones when they travel away from their lands.

Agreed.

I feel something about engraving the language permanently in a person's bones is more writing it to their very soul (or personal perception of themselves/cognitive aspect) in that it functions like grafting it to their spirit-web, akin to how Hemalurgy "bolts" it to them.

As such it's more "a part" of them than Elantrian magic or Forging (especially forging, lol just look at the name!) and as such, can be carried further outside of their perceived Dominion.

 

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To me the Dakhor suffer less the distance problem just because when when a one became a Monk, his anathomy are changed with magic but the change aren't Dor dependant. The only Dor use of them is when they use to gain extra power/speed or powers. And only this piece of their power would suffer the distance problem.

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To me the Dakhor suffer less the distance problem just because when when a one became a Monk, his anatomy are changed with magic but the change aren't Dor dependant. The only Dor use of them is when they use to gain extra power/speed or powers. And only this piece of their power would suffer the distance problem.

 

That was my impression as well; the "charge-up" ritual sacrifices work the best within Dakhor's area of influence, and suffer inefficiency elsewhere.  

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I finally got in touch with Peter regarding my question about the number of spikes Paalm had (i.e. one from unknown metal, or one from unknown metal and one regular). The magnificent human being that he is, he got back to me pretty quickly: "Paalm was only using one spike at a time, all of them made from the unknown metal."

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I finally got in touch with Peter regarding my question about the number of spikes Paalm had (i.e. one from unknown metal, or one from unknown metal and one regular). The magnificent human being that he is, he got back to me pretty quickly: "Paalm was only using one spike at a time, all of them made from the unknown metal."

 

Excellent, glad we can finally put that discussion to rest.

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I finally got in touch with Peter regarding my question about the number of spikes Paalm had (i.e. one from unknown metal, or one from unknown metal and one regular). The magnificent human being that he is, he got back to me pretty quickly: "Paalm was only using one spike at a time, all of them made from the unknown metal."

 

Thanks for getting the answer for us, Argent. As someone from the losing side of that debate, I feel oddly excited by this, for the following reasons:

 

  • The metal we're calling "trellium" can steal a wide variety of attributes, not just Feruchemical and Allomantic powers, but also other spiritual traits (e.g. the "chimera" spike that latches a canine-like soul to a human soul, which affects the human's Cognitive and Physical aspects in turn). This Hemalurgic versatility reminds me of atium, which can steal anything. It's possible that trellium can only steal spiritual attributes (including any Invested power), but that's obviously still pretty cool.

     

  • Trellium might also be able to store various Feruchemical attributes. Either that, or Paalm was just carrying some non-Hemalurgic steel to store her speed. But if it's the former, then that's interesting because even atium can only store one Feruchemical attribute (youth), at least from what we currently know.

     

  • I now have a feeling that Paalm's Ruin-like spike-based telepathy and mind control are not stolen attributes. First, who would she steal them from? Second, in one scene she was communicating with Wax mentally while using Tin, which would be impossible if her telepathy power was a stolen attribute because (as we now know), she only used one spike at a time.

    Rather, I now think it is an inherent property of trellium. Since it doesn't fit the pattern of Feruchemical powers, I conclude that spike-based mental manipulation is trellium's Allomantic power (it can be categorized Allomantically as an External-Mental power), which means Paalm has bits of non-Hemalurgic trellium that she burns whenever she wants to communicate with or control spiked people.

     

  • The Hemalurgic versatility of trellium, combined with its spike-based mental manipulation property, makes trellium a bit too Ruin-like in my mind to fit the Trell is Autonomy theory I once proposed. It makes me want to espouse Moogle's theory that Kelsier is holding a Splinter of Ruin, which if true might allow him to manifest his own god metal that is still somehow related to Ruin, hence the similarities.

    As for the Autonomy connection ("I will make you free" says Paalm), I would chalk that up to Intent splintering shenanigans. We know that Splinters can have their own Intents, and we've seen a Splinter whose Intent matches a Shard other than its origin Shard. I'm talking about Nightblood who, being magically attractive to odious people and being quite odious himself when unsheathed, acts more like Odium than Endowment. It's possible that the Ruin Splinter Kelsier has a rebellious Intent, which coincidentally fits Kelsier's nature as well as Autonomy's.

Edited by skaa
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We don't know what Leraium steals, so it's possible that all God Metals steal multiple traits.

Maybe the difference is about "how the Godmetal Spike works" and not "what can steal".

For example we know that an Atium Spike can steal everything with a lot of efficiency. Maybe a Lerasium spike can steal everything but it hasn't any decay.

I admit that I didn't read SoS and I tried to avoid Spoiler, therefore I skipped every post at the first "spoiler alert". If I wrote a stupid (or already explused theory) sorry.

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Maybe the difference is about "how the Godmetal Spike works" and not "what can steal".

For example we know that an Atium Spike can steal everything with a lot of efficiency. Maybe a Lerasium spike can steal everything but it hasn't any decay.

I admit that I didn't read SoS and I tried to avoid Spoiler, therefore I skipped every post at the first "spoiler alert". If I wrote a stupid (or already explused theory) sorry.

 

Maybe a lerasium spike doesn't "steal" anything.  Maybe it imprints whichever power or trait it's supposed to steal, but leaves it behind in the victim as well.  Of course, there would need to be drawbacks involved, and this is all highly speculative until some Scadrian serial killer or assassin or whatever decides to use lerasium of all things for Hemalurgy.  (Although if it does copy and not steal traits, we can integrate that into the Metallic-Art-powered universal healthcare thing that... someone... cooked up)  

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Maybe the difference is about "how the Godmetal Spike works" and not "what can steal".

For example we know that an Atium Spike can steal everything with a lot of efficiency. Maybe a Lerasium spike can steal everything but it hasn't any decay.

I admit that I didn't read SoS and I tried to avoid Spoiler, therefore I skipped every post at the first "spoiler alert". If I wrote a stupid (or already explused theory) sorry.

 

That would make the literal essence of Preservation more powerful than the literal essence of Ruin in Ruin's own magic system.  I'd find it much more likely that it has a much narrower, if powerful, effect.  Much like how lerasium and atium act in Allomancy (one grants all of the Allomantic abilities, the other grants limited precognition) but opposite.  Each acts like a wildcard of sorts in its own system, but has a single ability in the other.

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That would make the literal essence of Preservation more powerful than the literal essence of Ruin in Ruin's own magic system.  I'd find it much more likely that it has a much narrower, if powerful, effect.  Much like how lerasium and atium act in Allomancy (one grants all of the Allomantic abilities, the other grants limited precognition) but opposite.  Each acts like a wildcard of sorts in its own system, but has a single ability in the other.

 

The problem is that lerasium is shockingly out of character for Hemalurgy, by which I mean that stealing any single power, no matter how broken (perhaps especially the broken powers), wouldn't fit Preservation in the slightest.  In the spirit of atium and clairvoyance, however, it could be that lerasium steals personality traits.  We haven't seen anything do that yet.  

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Random thought: what if a lerasium spike doesn't steal anything, but instead it is the source of Feruchemy? Someone once put a lerasium spike in a pre-Terrisman victim, and they didn't die, but gained a new magical ability instead.

 

People like to talk about how feruchemy is balanced between Ruin and Preservation, so why not originate it by using Preservation's God metal in Ruin's magic system?

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People like to talk about how feruchemy is balanced between Ruin and Preservation, so why not originate it by using Preservation's God metal in Ruin's magic system?

 

Because Ruin's God metal doesn't seem to do anything nearly as interesting as creating a new magic system when applied to Preservation's magic system.

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It is, but it's also orders of magnitude smaller. You have to admit, spawning an entire new magic system is a tad more significant than spawning a new Allomantic effect - and a very expensive one (in terms of metal consumption rate) at that.

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It is, but it's also orders of magnitude smaller. You have to admit, spawning an entire new magic system is a tad more significant than spawning a new Allomantic effect - and a very expensive one (in terms of metal consumption rate) at that.

 

I agree. Lerasium Hemalurgy is probably not the source of Feruchemy, and lerasium can't be as versatile as atium in Hemalurgy. I recently thought of the possibility that using a lerasium spike in Hemalurgy turns one's victims into mistwraiths instead of killing them, but I don't know how that would work Realmatically. Like, which attribute does one remove to turn a normal Scadrian into a non-sentient blob?

Edited by skaa
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And we know that also IF a Lerasium Spike give the Feruchemy. The Hemalurgyc Heritage is quite uncommon. Therefore is unlikely that a Popolation may had Feruchemy starting from a quite Magical-Sterile Human

Edited by Yata
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I recently thought of the possibility that using a lerasium spike in Hemalurgy turns one's victims into mistwraiths instead of killing them, but I don't know how that would work Realmatically. Like, which attribute does one remove to turn a normal Scadrian into a non-sentient blob?

 

I don't know if this could work. The way I imagine it, when the Lord Ruler ripped the Feruchemy out of every Feruchemist he could detect, the damaged caused by the massive holes in their Spiritwebs is what caused the physical transformation. Maybe he tweaked them a little to make sure they could still survive, but I see the removal of their magic as the primary driver for change. This is supported, I believe, by the knowledge that giving them Hemalurgic spikes, any spikes as far as I know, reverts a lot of the damage. A Hemalurgic spikes are really just patches of Spiritweb.

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