How do shades move?

[Oudeis]

Do they float through the air? Can they pass through matter?

 

We know people can be pushed through their substance. We know they can nevertheless grasp; Silence comments that there is substance to them, and they can hold people, slow them down.

 

Yet a ring of silver will stop them; the waystop need not be under a dome. Nor can they go underground and come up through the floor. Theopolis's cave was "lined with silver". Did that mean just at the entrance? Every wall? If shades can go through matter, isn't that what you'd need to protect a cave?

 

So, shades have some substance; they're like a thick, fluid gas somehow under motive control. They cannot go underground, because they have too much matter for that. Can they fly? Need they stay at ground level? Can they climb trees? Jump off cliffs? Cross water? Why are shades only found on Hell? Can they not float across the ocean to Homeland? Is it that they could, but they don't feel like it? Do they experience a compulsion, like... plants will lean towards the light. In their seemingly pointless meanderings, do they have a tendency to stay near places their prey might be found, i.e., land as opposed to sea?

 

What would happen to a shade at sea? If one got on a boat... would it only consider "running" to be in relation to the boat, or would it frenzy when the ship went too fast? Would its own speed be in relation to the boat, or would it just pace along as fast as it could to keep up with the life on the boat, and fall overboard if the ship went too fast? Would it sink into the water, or stay on the surface?

 

Could wind keep a shade away? They have some substance, but not much weight. That seems like the perfect recipe for a storm, or even just normal rain, to make them dormant. Could someone with a powerful electric fan blow shades away?

[Haelbarde]

What would happen to a shade at sea? If one got on a boat... would it only consider "running" to be in relation to the boat, or would it frenzy when the ship went too fast? Would its own speed be in relation to the boat, or would it just pace along as fast as it could to keep up with the life on the boat, and fall overboard if the ship went too fast? Would it sink into the water, or stay on the surface?

That strikes me as a similar concept to the idea of a train passing through a time-bubble. 

[soulcastJam]

They can pass through walls or the door would have kept one particular one enclosed without the need for a silver lining.

[Oudeis]

Unless they can rot wood. Or maybe they are gaseous and can get out through cracks? How high does the protection go? Why didn't the shade just float up through the ceiling, and the roof, and leave the waystation?

 

I can't quite come up with a model that answers all of these questions.

[Yata]

Unless they can rot wood. Or maybe they are gaseous and can get out through cracks? How high does the protection go? Why didn't the shade just float up through the ceiling, and the roof, and leave the waystation?

 

I can't quite come up with a model that answers all of these questions.

I think they can't rot wood (or any other material) because at least the Forest of Hell must have some sign of this.

I think that is a "Investiture Interference" the Shadow can't interact with "low Investiture bein" but react (and could interact) with living beins (more Investiture).

 

But to confirm my point, the Silver of Therondyl (I hope I write the name well) is Invested (and hight Invested). It's something I was thinking about the ability of Silver to "cure" a Shadow-made-wound.

[Oudeis]

But they'd normally have no need, or urge, to attack wood. Wood's not going to run, draw blood, or start a fire. And in the forests, it will never really be in a shade's way; it'll always be faster to go around the tree.

 

But if a shade were in a box and someone outside the box drew blood? That might give it a reason. I can't get out, so I'll go through.

 

I'm not saying this happens, or even that I especially think it does. But it's possible. Just because a shade hasn't done something, doesn't mean it wouldn't, if there's no reason to have expected it to do so yet.

[Yata]

Well I don't think that the Shades "avoids" to pass through objects (like tree or anything else) and I'm quite sure that the Shades passively rot the flesh of who touch them (more simply a Shade can't avoid to damage someone with its touch).

 

Therefore there would be sign of "devastation" in the forest, at least in a zone where angry shades try to punish someone that broke the rules.

voluntarily or noTT

tHERE

[Oudeis]

And do we know that doesn't happen? Have we seen a lot of spots where Shades have attacked, en masse? Were they described, and was mention made of the trees seeming hale and hearty regardless?

 

For all we know, there might be patches that look like a small wildfire, and a wise Homesteader would look around and think, ah, the shades ate well a few nights ago...

[Yata]

We haven't any 100% sure proof from both of thesys.

 

I am just talk about the Model more likely to me (that of course may be different of yours).

[Finallity]

Read Mistborn: Secret History for a couple insights on this matter. It seems that they can move through things, but it takes a conscious effort, which Threnody's shades don't seem to have. It would feel like moving through thick mud.

[Yata]

I am not sure but put the spoiler part in spoiler tag.

[Farnsworth]

They probably exist in the cognitive realm (or spiritual realm, I'm not sure) and so they can move easily through anything without a cognitive (or spiritual) aspect. When they encounter something with a lot of aspect, like a person (so they can grab the person) they can't go through it.

[Yata]

They definitively exist in the Cognitive Realm not the Spiritual.

And remember, everything has a Cognitive and Spiritual Aspects (well quite everything) and without some willing effort a Cognitive Shadow (the Shades are a subset of Cognitive Shadows) can't move through things.

[Pathfinder]

So I reread the short story and came away with some insights that might answer a lot of these questions. But first regarding why shades do not fly or walk on water. This is a personal theory but I think because they are cognitive shadows of people they naturally hold to some of the rules they had while alive. People don't fly or walk on water. Now maybe over a long enough time, they lose their humanoid form, they might act differently. But it looks like it acts like "people". It would however be interesting to see a bird shade and see how it flies lol. Now regarding passing through buildings and trees. I believe this was a misunderstanding based on descriptions in the book. I will state my understanding and then quote the relevant scenes. So when shades are not active (I mean this to mean not green nor red eyed. When they are white), they naturally pull away from people as if pushed by a breeze. So wind does not actually push them, it is merely to illustrate how their motions appear. So if not active shades avoid running into people, it would stand to reason the same would stand for trees. Now I believe shades either cannot, or do not typically pass through walls and such. The reason for the silver barrier is it ensures that the shades cannot break through. The barrier can be weakened when attacked, but it throws the shades back and is a solid line of "force". With a normal wooden wall, there are going to be gaps and it could be broken down. The breaking down the wall is a personal theory, but what I believe is concrete is the other reason why I think there is a difference between a silver barrier and a wooden wall. A silver barrier you can walk over, but the shades cannot. There is no opening or closing of a door. It is a solid wall to shades, while an ease of travel for humans. A wall on the other hand can keep shades out, but in order for a human to walk in and out, the door has to be opened. In the book it mentions that shades are always around. Just during the day you can barely see them if at all. Shades get behind the walls not because they phase through the walls, but because they wander in with general traffic. So now you have an unknown amount of shades within your walls when night comes, and some idiot decided to strike a light, or get into a fight. That is why Silence's place is so valuable. Because she constantly has concentric circles of silver, there is never a chance of a shade (except her grandmother), ever ending up within the barrier. Regarding Theopolis's silver lined cave. It is later commented on that Silence sees the silver barrier in front of the cave. So that is what she was referring to. This would then line up with my theory that they do not pass through solid matter (at least voluntarily) and that silver is just a means for a completely sealed location. Also I would like to state that although this question did not come up in this post, I do not believe the Evil and the shades are related. Theopolis states how this was Hell when the first forescouts came to scout it. And how that was before the Evil came to the homeland. 

 

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell kindle location 210

"The first people to come scout this continent, the first to homestead the Forests.... the first to stake a claim on hell itself"

"Don't call the Forests that. This is my home"

"But it is how men saw this land, before the Evil. Doesn't that make you curious? Hell, land of the damned, where the shaodws of the dead made their home."

 

So they saw that the land was home of shades even before the Evil showed up.

 

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell kindle location 420

Shades slid through the trees nearby, almost invisible with nothing to illuminate them. She kept her distance, but even so, she occasionally turned to see one of the things drifting past her. Stumbling into a shade could kill you, but that kind of accident was uncommon. Unless enraged, shades moved away from people who got too close, as if blown by a soft breeze. So long as you were moving slowly - and you should be - you would be all right. 

 

So it could be said that scene literally says they slid through the trees. But personally, I take that again as being literarily descriptive. As in to illustrate the spooky, silent, and invisible way they move. Not to literally state they walked through the actual tree. You can write the same exact sentence but with a wolf in place of the shade. "Wolves slid through the trees nearby, almost invisible with nothing to illuminate them." Same exact sentence with one word changed, but because we know how wolves function, we take it to mean they pass through the forest stealthily, instead of actually walking through a tree. Then again we have a descriptor that makes it sound like they could be moved by wind, when it in my opinion is meant to only illustrate how they seem to drift away from people as long as they are not active.

 

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell kindle location 831

Silence found Theopolis's hidden cave after six hours of hunting. It was about where she'd expected it to be, in the hills not far from the Old Bridge. It included a silver barrier. She could harvest that. Good money there.  

 

So it states there is a silver barrier, and it could be harvested. That would be rather difficult if it was as it sounded earlier as "silver lined" if that meant silver was embedded in the entire cave. 

 

Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell kindle location 843

"I like it. It feels peaceful. The homesteads don't have good silver protection. They just.... let the shades move about. Even inside." The man shuddered.

 

So again, I feel this quote conveys that the main thing the silver border act as is as sort of a airlock regarding shades. It prevents any form of slipping it, "airtight". Never have to worry about leaving a door open too long, or if you open a window a shade slipping in. Never have to worry about making a little mistake during the three rules, and suddenly a shade you didn't know was in the house already, jumps you. Yes the silver can fail after repeated attacks, but it is the sense of security in knowing once you pass that barrier, no shades are here. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Pathfinder