War_Breaker Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Hello everyone, I've been Reading Brandon Sanderson for quite some time now. I have also been aware of this forum for a similar amount of time and decided it was time to sign up and partake of the discussion. Glad to finally be here! So, a couple of musings as I make my way through WoR for about the 10th time - Could Honour have ''cheated'' in the deal he made with Odium - we know there are Spren of both shards, was the original gambit that the he who gets the listners/humans etc to attract the most Spren essentially win. However Honour ''cheated'' and gave humans the Honourblades thus tipping the favour of the War in Honours favour? Could Kaladin be being unknowingly prophetic when he says ''I can't hold back the might of 10 armies...'' potential climax of the first 5 books? Finally, Teft is awfully knowledgeable, is Brandon going to throw a slight curveball and Teft is a Herald? I wanted to write these down before I forgot. Apologies if this is in the wrong area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Finally, Teft is awfully knowledgeable, is Brandon going to throw a slight curveball and Teft is a Herald?Teft is very knowledgeable... For a bridgeman. Someone has read the in-world book Words of Radiance would probably know more than him in some areas, since he was unsure if all Radiants got all powers or not. Someone who studied the Silver Kingdoms could tell more about the First Oath. Dalinar could talk hours about Nohadon's philosophy. Jasnah is Jasnah. The Stone Shamans clearly know more about the mechanics of surgebinding than him.Teft knows things he shouldn't. But at this point, that hardly means he is anything more than a former menber of a secret society/cult. EDIT: Also, why does anyone think Honor and Odium had a deal? As far as we know, Odium could have been imprisioned and the Desolations could be his attempt to get out. Edited September 25, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 EDIT: Also, why does anyone think Honor and Odium had a deal? As far as we know, Odium could have been imprisioned and the Desolations could be his attempt to get out. If this were the case, why would Desolations start up the moment all the Heralds left Damnation? Why would there not be Desolations 24/7? Honor and Odium might not have had a "deal", but it seems like Honor restricted Odium somehow. And there's this business of choosing a champion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 If this were the case, why would Desolations start up the moment all the Heralds left Damnation? Why would there not be Desolations 24/7? Honor and Odium might not have had a "deal", but it seems like Honor restricted Odium somehow. And there's this business of choosing a champion... According to my theory, the Heralds syphon power from Odium while in damnation with their Honorblades, and he is only strong enough to send his investiture to Roshar after the Heralds Return and a bridge is estabilished, and the prision is re-sealed when at least one Herald travels back. I think this desolation is worse because with only one Herald in Braize Odium was able to muster enough power yo send dome of the unmade to Roshar before the desolation even started and to create the Everstorm after it began. Forcing Odium to choose a champion would be more like the conflict in Mistborn, with the Shards fighting indirectly using just a few agents. Preservation choose Rashek to hold Ruin at bay. Ruin used Kelsier to kill Rashek. All according to Leras' plan. Preservation choose Vin as a sucessor. Ruin tried to use Marsh to kill her and it backfired. Vin sent Elend where he was needed. Ruin used Marsh to kill him. And died. Forcing Odium to choose a champion is convincing him that betting on a single agent is his best chance, and that he should give that agent tools or knowledge that may be used against him. Then watching the agent fail or betray Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 According to my theory, the Heralds syphon power from Odium while in damnation with their Honorblades, and he is only strong enough to send his investiture to Roshar after the Heralds Return and a bridge is estabilished, and the prision is re-sealed when at least one Herald travels back. I think this desolation is worse because with only one Herald in Braize Odium was able to muster enough power yo send dome of the unmade to Roshar before the desolation even started and to create the Everstorm after it began. Why would the Heralds even be needed in this scenario? Why wouldn't Honor just fling a few Honorblades at Odium's prison to "siphon" his Investiture forever? Less failure chance that way, not to mention more effective. No Desolations would need to happen in this scenario. Mistborn spoilers: Preservation didn't require any human intermediaries to create atium geodes, so why the heck couldn't Honor just do the same thing? I'm sorry, but I just don't find this theory very compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Teft is not knowledgable. Teft claims to know things, but is usually wrong. Teft is not "unsure" if every Radiant has all powers; he is sure, and he's wrong. Teft knows a few things, and most of what he knows turns out to be wrong. He could be a Herald in excellent disguise, deliberately saying false things so that no one would ever suspect him of being a Herald. However, we also have a PoV from him, at one point, and it proves to me fairly conclusively that he's not a Herald. If he is, he's a Herald who has lost his memory, and somehow remembers being a small child relatively recently, and having parents who believe even more false things than he does about Radiants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Teft got excited when telling what the Radiants could do and when he was called out on why they would fly if they could teleport he admited he didn't know. That doens't strike me as being fully sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 I read it as: "This thing is true and I believe it!" "But isn't it wildly inconsistent?" silence (at this point in the quote his first reply actually is to stand there silently thinking this through) "Teft?" "Um... whatever." I don't read it as a man admitting, "Here are some things I was told, let's try to work together and figure out what of it is true and what isn't." He bluntly states a fact like it's a foregone conclusion. When it's proven to lack integrity at a casual glance, he stands there sullenly in silence for a moment, before admitting he can't reconcile it when pressed. I think you give him far too much benefit of the doubt to assume that his forthright statement, followed by an awkward pause, is a man admitting that he isn't sure. Just because he's wrong doesn't mean he's not certain he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Breaker Posted September 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Fair enough if people don't buy the 'Teft as a Herald' bit, it was just a passing thought. I am aware of characters telling themselves lies to ''fit in'' Vasher didn't really give much away in Warbreaker and he had only been at it for a few hundred years. The Heralds have been incognito for several thousand... EDIT: Also, why does anyone think Honor and Odium had a deal? As far as we know, Odium could have been imprisioned and the Desolations could be his attempt to get out. I'm sure there's a WOB saying that the Oathpact was between Honour and the Heralds i.e. not Odium. However Odium is trapped somehow and I can't imagine that happening without some communication between Honour and Odium, given Odium is invested in Roshar to the point he cannot leave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 25, 2015 Report Share Posted September 25, 2015 Eh... every PoV we get of Vasher gives us clues that there's more to him than meets the eye. There's no such hint in the PoV of Teft; quite the opposite. He recalls a biologically typical and recent childhood. Vasher never "believed a lie" from his own PoV, he never thought or remembered something that would make him being a Returned impossible. If Teft's memories are accurate, he cannot be a Herald. If they're inaccurate... I suppose that's possible. Shallan has inaccurate memories, after all. I would still be surprised. The rest of the Heralds all seem to know quite well who and what they are. Which Herald do you think he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane_Privileged Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Does it really make sense that Honor would "cheat"? I mean doesn't that kind of go against his Shardic Intent? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Does it really make sense that Honor would "cheat"? I mean doesn't that kind of go against his Shardic Intent? While I agree it doesn't seem like Honor, Shardic Intents do not apply to themselves as such. Preservation is not about preserving itself, Ruin is not about Ruining itself, Cultivation is not about growing herself. Honor may not be about being honorable himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 26, 2015 Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Mistborn spoilers? Ironically Ruin spent the books trying to restore himself to completion, while Preservation is the one with the utterly suicidal scheme that involves getting himself killed to pass his power to someone else willing to kill themselves to stop Ruin. Yeah, Honor probably isn't all that honorable. Not like Odium has a self-loathing complex either. Endowment spends their time giving other people his/her stuff instead of pampering themselves. Honor can totally have the Amaram mentality for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Breaker Posted September 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2015 Which Herald do you think he is? In all honesty i'm not in the market for individual Herald spotting, more of a history/overarching Cosmere theory game so I hadn't thought about it that much. The evidence for him being a Herald is miniscule, I more thought it would be a nice curveball for Brandon to throw ''hey, look, there's been one in your face all the time''. Also, ''cheating'' the.. agreement, shall we say, with Odium is not Honourable at all. Although Preservation wasn't about preserving its self its actions did lead to the Preservation of life in the grand scheme of things. If there was foul play on Honours/Cultivations part, maybe it had more to do with trapping Odium in the Rosharan system to mitigate his shard-shattering activities and came from the Shard holders not the Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts