possible to un-shatter a shard?

[Scott]

Now, suppose that Odium was shattered, and you took up the investiture for hatred and protection. What would you even call that Shard?

 

Jealousy?

[Gloom]

Good call.

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

Don't we have WoB that there are Splinters that are large enough that they have their own Intents?  None that we've seen so far, but they do exist, I'm fairly certain he's confirmed....

[Dros]

 

This is exactly my question after thinking some more on this last night. Is each shard composed of other virtues that make it that? Protection, for example, could fit into more than just honor. I'm guessing that the reason Adonalsium broke into 16 pieces has to do with how important the number 16 is in the Cosmere. 

 

 

 

It might be that 16 isn't really that special of a number. Maybe Andolasium shattered into a hundred Shards and the 16 we have now is a result of the Shardholders chasing the resulting unheld Shards of Andolasium to get as much power as possible. Their Intents might be more of a mesh from the mad rush to gather as many Shards as possible before the Shardic Intents constrained the Holder's actions.

 

However, OTOH, there is nothing to support something like that except the fact that Harmony exists and we now know you can hold two Shards at once or meld the two. 

 

However, we've seen Odium splintering Shards and that hasn't resulted in more mini Shards. Only way to answer that problem would be to know if there is a different process to shatter a Shard or Splinter a Shard.

[Gloom]

Speaking of that, I wonder if they had any idea what the Shards intent was before they picked it up. Did Tanavast or Rayse know that they were picking up Honor and Odium, or did they just pick them up randomly and become bound to the Shard whether they liked it or not. It seems Ruin may not have been thrilled with his selection, at least not in the beginning. I get the feeling they kinda got stuck with whatever they picked up.

[Argent]

That's a good point. Ati was a good man (according to Hoid), so there is no good reason for him to pick up Ruin wittingly. Reyse was a douchebag, so I wouldn't be surprised if he chose Odium. We don't know anything about the rest, so it's 50/50 to me. Well, maybe not for me - I lean towards the "they didn't know what's what" theory. The only account of something similar is a spoiler from a book that's not part of TSA, and I even there I don't remember anything helpful.

[Shardlet]

It might be that 16 isn't really that special of a number. Maybe Andolasium shattered into a hundred Shards and the 16 we have now is a result of the Shardholders chasing the resulting unheld Shards of Andolasium to get as much power as possible. Their Intents might be more of a mesh from the mad rush to gather as many Shards as possible before the Shardic Intents constrained the Holder's actions.

 

This seems unlikely since Brandon indicated that each of the 16 is pretty much equal in power.  If it was a scramble, it would be expected that some would gather more than others and you'd have a distribution of power levels.

[lonelymagician]

However, we've seen Odium splintering Shards and that hasn't resulted in more mini Shards. Only way to answer that problem would be to know if there is a different process to shatter a Shard or Splinter a Shard.

 

We don't know that there aren't mini shards though. There haven't been any pointed out in an obvious way, though Brandon does call them "splinters" and mentions that we've seen some in every book except the mistborn series. A shard of Adonalsium is not Adonalsium, but they are parts of adonalsium. A splinter is not a shard, but a part of one. We also don't know if a shard could be shattered. I always assumed that splintering a shard was the way to break it. Never even occurred to me that one could be shattered, which brings up a whole different set of questions. Maybe someone should add this to the list of questions for Brandon? Can a shard be shattered as opposed to splintered? Splintering vs shattering definitely invokes interesting imagery in my head, and fits with how I think Odium is shattering shards (getting pieces of the shard to rip themselves away from the shard somehow). Brandon's careful with his word choice, so I'm sure there's a very purposeful reason "splinter" is the verb of choice.

 

Just like (probably) a shard doesn't behave or have the power of Adonalsium, a splinter wouldn't behave like or have all the power of the shard it came from. We're mostly just speculating on what forms the splinters could take. Obviously, they are sentient, at least to a degree, and their motives are probably heavily influenced by their shard's intent. Do shards splinter into 16 pieces, or maybe 16 forms, or 16 somethings? like, are Seons only 1 aspect of Devotion (I assume they are of devotion...seems to fit), and are there others that aren't so obviously manifest? When I think of the word splinter, the idea of a "splinter group" seems to fit well. It could be that when a shard splinters, there is still a sizable chunk that is the "core" of the shard somewhere. 

 

Edit: formatting and clarity.

Edited November 13, 2013 by lonelymagician

[Dros]

CHAOS

In the most recent Hero of Ages annotation, you said that Preservation chose Vin to be the recipient of the power, just as Preservation had chosen Alendi previously (thus, this was why Ruin had manipulated the Prophecies). Was Alendi also chosen precisely sixteen years before the Well of Ascension's power returned?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. He was chosen exactly sixteen years before, but he was a bit older then Vin when he was chosen.

 

 

I just saw this, so yes, I think you are completely right, Shardlet. That guy Dros doesn't know what he's talking about! 16 seems to be a special number for the Shards.  So why is ten the special number of Roshar I wonder?

 

Speaking of that, I wonder if they had any idea what the Shards intent was before they picked it up. Did Tanavast or Rayse know that they were picking up Honor and Odium, or did they just pick them up randomly and become bound to the Shard whether they liked it or not. It seems Ruin may not have been thrilled with his selection, at least not in the beginning. I get the feeling they kinda got stuck with whatever they picked up.

 

 

Or were they chosen by the Shards at that time? Do unclaimed Shards have the capacity to do that?

 

Maybe someone should add this to the list of questions for Brandon? Can a shard be shattered as opposed to splintered?

 

 

I thought this might have been addressed by Brandon at one time, but I can't find any quotes that address the splinter v shatter verbiage specifically.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Dros

[Shardlet]

Simple, Bob wills it!

 

Seriously though, it remains to be seen whether 16 is significnt on Scadrial because of Adonalsium shattering into 16 chunks or whether that is simply the way the chips fell when Ruin and Preservation invested.  In went the power, out popped 16 friendly metals.  It is likewise unclear why 10 is significant on Roshar.  The difference suggests to me that it is more likely a result of the interaction of the power with the particular planet than anything to do with Adonalsium and the details of its shattering.

[Mailliw73]

I always thought each Shard had a preassigned(for lack of a better word) number that was special to it. Honor's was 10 and Preservation's 16.

[lonelymagician]

16 is a special number in the cosmere, not just on Scadrial. Of course, I can't find a quote...but I'm reasonably sure that I've read it somewhere. That being said, it's probably not the only important number. Preservation chose 16 because it was significant, not because it was necessary.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Preservation wanted Atium and Malatium to be of use to the people, as he recognized that it would be a very powerful tool—and that using it up could help defeat Ruin. But he also recognized that sixteen was a mythological important number, and felt it would make the best sign for his followers. So he took out the most unlikely (difficult to make and use) metals for his sign to his followers. But that doesn't have much to do with Hemalurgy's use here.

Edited November 14, 2013 by lonelymagician

[TheOneKEA]

Speaking of that, I wonder if they had any idea what the Shards intent was before they picked it up. Did Tanavast or Rayse know that they were picking up Honor and Odium, or did they just pick them up randomly and become bound to the Shard whether they liked it or not. It seems Ruin may not have been thrilled with his selection, at least not in the beginning. I get the feeling they kinda got stuck with whatever they picked up.

At the end of HoA, Sazed's touches the gaseous forms of Ruin and Preservation after Ati and Vin die, and he can tell that the former represents violent entropy and the other represents timeless stasis (not the exact words Brandon used, but my perception of Sazed's perception). It suggests to me that Tanavast and Rayse would have similar perceptions after touching the gaseous forms of their Shards.