NEW INFO: Renarin's Spren

[Arondell]

I just don't think the Kholins need 5 out of 6 members to be Surgebinders. I think that's really stretching statistics.

Given how closely behavior is associated with spren and by extension magical abilities I don't find it all that much of a stretch.  With a father/uncle like Dalinar as an example of honorable behavior it kind of skews the probabilities.

[Gloom]

Given how closely behavior is associated with spren and by extension magical abilities I don't find it all that much of a stretch.  With a father/uncle like Dalinar as an example of honorable behavior it kind of skews the probabilities.

 

I agree completely. I think there are other factors involved as well, but the character of those involved is certainly something outside of the norm, at least in Alethi society. I believe those spren in the cognitive realm are making their decisions based off of various factors that are merely influenced by character, but Honorspren will be more strongly drawn to Dalinars family due to how they were influenced by Dalinar and the Way of Kings. I believe that Elhokar would have ended up with a bond regardless because he is the king of the nation that was traditionally important when it came to fighting the Desolations. Dalinars influence over Elhokar may make it plausible for Elhokar to attain the peak of Surgebinding ability and become a Radiant though.

[Argent]

That's assuming spren have this kind of freedom of choice. I am not sure they, even the Ring, can go "oh, a Desolation is coming, let's send a few spren to bond with some important people, so we can help them out."

[Gloom]

I'm fairly certain Galivar did something before he died that has broken, or at least put a crack in a dam that was interfering with the bonding process. It may be that whatever is in the orb was interfering. By removing it from the location he found it, or by finding a method of trapping it within the sphere, he may have opened a path that has long been blocked. As the crack widens, more bonding spren are able to create bonds. So far it has just been a trickle, only time will tell if it becomes a flood.

[Swimmingly]

One doubt, what is the big deal with upvotes anyway ?

 

This is a thing you can give losing nothing, and apparently receive one make the person happy, so maybe the people could be more "open handed" and spread happiness =)

 

LoL

Kinda the same thing as, say, money.

[Vortaan]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Renarim to become a KR? One of my favorite characters in Mistborn was Demoux, and it was because he was a normal guy thrust into this group of magic people, and he still managed to be useful through hard work, belief, and determination. Renarim seems to me like a similar character.

 

He can see a spren no one else does... that doesn't mean he has to bond it, or become a KR. I'd actually love it if seeing this spren made a difference in the war against Odium, but it made a difference because it's existence allows Renarim to figure out something about the conflict that Dalinar's visions and Vorin theology leave out. A thing Brandon does that is mildly annoying is that no one stays just a normal person... and I'm not a fan of that. Normal people can make a difference in the world too.

[Fistsofrage]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Renarim to become a KR? One of my favorite characters in Mistborn was Demoux, and it was because he was a normal guy thrust into this group of magic people, and he still managed to be useful through hard work, belief, and determination. Renarim seems to me like a similar character.

He can see a spren no one else does... that doesn't mean he has to bond it, or become a KR. I'd actually love it if seeing this spren made a difference in the war against Odium, but it made a difference because it's existence allows Renarim to figure out something about the conflict that Dalinar's visions and Vorin theology leave out. A thing Brandon does that is mildly annoying is that no one stays just a normal person... and I'm not a fan of that. Normal people can make a difference in the world too.

Renarin will do his part to help House Kholin. Whether that is as a KR or as a normal person idk. Im not really all that interested in Renarin at the moment but I am watching to see how he changes in the next book. Once we can see his thought process, more may become clear.

I'm actually more interested in whether Kaladin will keep his promise to train Lopen or if it was just lip service. He said he'd train him to fight with one-hand...

[Argent]

Normal people can make a difference in the world too.

 

Except Renarin is not normal. He has some rare blood disease, he is mildly autistic (which may or may not be the same thing), and he is the second son of Dalinar Kholin, the Blackthorn, Highprince of War, and a man in a unique position to influence the king of Alethkar. By proxy alone, if nothing else, Renarin is not normal.

 

Though I I understand what you are saying. I just don't necessarily subscribe to it - normal people, by definition, don't do extraordinary things (often; maybe once or twice). I don't read fantasy for the normal people - I read it for those who do great things.

[Chrono]

Renarin will do his part to help House Kholin. Whether that is as a KR or as a normal person idk. Im not really all that interested in Renarin at the moment but I am watching to see how he changes in the next book. Once we can see his thought process, more may become clear.

I'm actually more interested in whether Kaladin will keep his promise to train Lopen or if it was just lip service. He said he'd train him to fight with one-hand...

 

Considering that Kaladin has kept all of his promises so far, I think that would happen, although his priority right now is trying to figure out just exactly how he's going to train a thousand former bridgemen to be soldiers. It would be interesting to see how Lopen would be able to fight one handed. From what I can tell from the book, most Spearman have a shield and a spear and dual wield it. Also, a person with two arms is able to apply more force behind a blow than with just one arm, so I'd like to see how exactly Kaladin will train Lopen to overcome that disadvantage.

[Vortaan]

Except Renarin is not normal. He has some rare blood disease, he is mildly autistic (which may or may not be the same thing), and he is the second son of Dalinar Kholin, the Blackthorn, Highprince of War, and a man in a unique position to influence the king of Alethkar. By proxy alone, if nothing else, Renarin is not normal.

 

Though I I understand what you are saying. I just don't necessarily subscribe to it - normal people, by definition, don't do extraordinary things (often; maybe once or twice). I don't read fantasy for the normal people - I read it for those who do great things.

 

Let me rephrase a bit: Demoux is great because he does do great things. Are they Vin level? No, but fighting koloss when you're a normal man takes a lot more courage than when you can do crazy metal twirling antics. By the same token, if Renarim can figure out how to defeat Odium with just his brain and a little bit of extra information, I'll find that a lot more satisfying than if he magics the situation out. Normal in this case means non-magical, not necessarily normal.

 

EDIT: I also tend to subscribe to the people are more extraordinary than we give them credit for way of looking at things, but that's just me. I'm a big fan of the quote: The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.'

Edited November 9, 2013 by Vortaan

[Looter]

A handful of people have discovered that if they spout off a number of empty platitudes about Renarin, or mention how unbelievably awesome he is, then ship him with Lift or something, then they get upvoted for a post with very little substance. This is the very first thread I have been in where people are flat out jockying for upvotes, and getting them.

I agree about this. In fact I find mindless pandering for something so inconsequential as upvotes to be beyond ridiculous and offensive. I used to like tension more before reading this thread to be honest now I am going to avoid these threads to avoid further taint my view of the character by all the awful pandering going on here. See ya on threads that matter.

Edited for stupid phone auto correct.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Looter

[marianmi]

In SA, your actions determines if you get investiture/magical powers.

So, Renarin acting in a way that would help save the world, would result in attracting a spren.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can have "normal" guys here doing extraordinary stuff.

Demoux on Roshar would have magic.

[WeiryWriter]

Demoux on Roshar would have magic.

 

Oh... have you any idea how true that statement is, if not exactly how you meant it...

[FeatherWriter]

Emma posted a cool (and by cool I mean heartbreaking) theory that it's possible that Renarin already has his powers and he's hiding them throughout WoK for fear of discovery. (Spoiler cut because of length)

Hey hey so what if Renarin already has Radiant powers

What if he’s already bound to a spren and has some surgebinding powers but he’s hiding them

Because he knows people already think he’s suspicious based on his personality/brain problems, and if the shifty kid in the glasses started sticking to the ceiling or setting things on fire there’s no way the populace would tolerate him

Radiants are considered false prophets who betrayed their people and abandoned their duty, but there’s no way Adolin or Dalinar or Navani wouldn’t come to his defense, so he’d likely drag his entire family down with him

And what if that’s why Renarin feels like he’s a burden and that his family would be better off without him

Because if he slips up even a little bit, they could lose everything
 
Because every second he’s there, he’s putting them all at risk

 
Which... I of course fell in love with and then proceded to cry for two hours while writing a thing in some wierd present tense style because I don't know it seemed like a good idea at the time? (also spoiler cut for length)

“One son can barely control himself, and the other is incompetent. This is your legacy, old friend?”

At Sadeas’s words in the tent, Renarin closes his eyes. His memories swallow him whole, dragging him back to the field, the chasmfiend attack only hours ago.

He remembers seeing his father thrown across the field by the monster’s tail, seeing Oathbringer vanish from his hand. Feeling that terror that his father might die.

And knowing that he could do something.

He’s hidden it, these powers inside him. He doesn’t know what they are or why he has them. If anyone found out what he could do, what would they think of him? The sick son of a Highprince with powers like the traitorous Radiants of old? He was terrified of what would happen to him.

But seeing his father thrown across the flat of the rock, tumbling like a cast die in a game of twisted chance, skidding to a stop Bladeless before that monstrosity, those arguments evaporate. Renarin kicks his horse out into the field, riding to his father’s aid, already preparing to unleash the powers he has sworn he will never use. This moment is why he’s been given these gifts, he knows it. If there was ever a time to reveal himself, reveal what he can do, it’s now. To save his father’s life. To show that he can help. To prove that he’s not worthless.

But he can’t do it.

Dalinar’s expression as he rides up kills his resolve. That mix of fear, protective instinct, and anger that says that seeing Renarin here is more than he can handle. His father’s words are a formality, for Renarin can see their meaning on his father’s face before they’re ever uttered. “Fool boy! Go! You’re unarmored and unarmed! Get back before you get yourself killed!”

He pulls to a halt, whatever false courage he thought he possesed vanishing. Suddenly, he can’t do it, he can’t expose himself. In that moment, he is the Almighty’s cruel joke. He has wanted for so long to be useful, to be able to do something. But now that he has a chance, he finds himself unable to take it. His wish for ability was granted, but the courage to use it was not. 

Blinking back the guilty tears in his eyes, he obeys. He turns his horse, galloping away, letting his fear rule him. Leaving his father there on the rocks. Fleeing back to the women and children.
 
Where he belongs.
 
The memories evaporate, and he’s back in the tent, watching his father frown at Sadeas’s cruel words. Seeing Adolin’s expression get darker and darker, despite Renarin’s hand still on his arm.
 
He hears his father respond: I am proud of them both Sadeas, whatever you think.
 
But the words are hollow to him. If Dalinar really knew who he was, knew what he had done today, he wouldn’t be proud of Renarin. He’d be ashamed. 
 
Sadeas continues, his every word cutting Renarin to the quick: “The firebrand I can understand.You were once impetuous just like him. But the other one? You saw how he ran out onto the field today. He even forgot to draw his sword or bow!”
 
Who would have thought that Sadeas would wield the Shardblade he has always wanted, but one of made of sounds and syllables, rather than substance? The words pass just as effortlessly through their victim as any Blade, leaving no mark or wound upon his skin as they burn his very soul.
 
A few months ago Renarin never would have thought there was anything worse than being powerless. But there is. And he has become it. A coward.
 
His head falls forward, drowning in his shame as Sadeas’s final remark rings through the air into silence, for Renarin knows the two words are truer than anyone will ever fully understand:
 
“He’s useless.”

 

[marianmi]

Oh... have you any idea how true that statement is, if not exactly how you meant it...

 

I know, I know...

[Scott]

Emma posted a cool (and by cool I mean heartbreaking) theory that it's possible that Renarin already has his powers and he's hiding them throughout WoK for fear of discovery. (Spoiler cut because of length)

 

You mean like every other proto-radiant we've seen so far? 

 

Jasnah arguably has had her powers the longest (from the prologue reading in WoR), she's already labelled a Heretic and is one of the most powerful women in Roshar, yet she hides her powers behind a fake soulcaster. 

 

Kaladin has only shown his Bridgemen, but that was unavoidable since they're the ones who exposed his powers (Teft).  He hides it from everyone else.  

 

Plus the surgebinders from the Steelhunt readings.  Both disguised their power use or avoided it around other people when they could.  

 

e/ also, Renarin knows Dalinar has been having visions from the Almighty himself, which smacks heavily of prophesy and therefor heresy.  Dalinar has talked to his family about his visions of the Radiants, and how they were good people.  If Renarin has a Radiant bonding spren and has his powers already, who could possibly be a better person to tell than Dalinar?  

 

If Renarin already has his powers (which I doubt), then I'd be putting my money on a non-Radiant bond.  

Edited November 10, 2013 by Scott

[marianmi]

As a side, I find Jasnah a very interesting character.More than Renarin (don't hate me ). And can't wait for viewpoints from her in WoR.

 

She's very cunning, knowledgeable and a surgebinder! Do you realize what Jasnah can do if her spren is as talkative as Wyndle?! Researching the radiant powers + insight from her spren, I would say Jasnah could currently be more powerful and in control of her powers than anyone is giving her credit... Combined with her being an atheist going to see her beloved uncle that has visions from a dead Almighty and speaks the Dawnchant (which Navani said Jasnah would be the best to help in deciphering)... the possibilities... so exciting!

Edited November 10, 2013 by marianmi

[Guest Alaxel]

Feather...that Sadeas Shardblade metaphor...right in my feels!

Also, I will consider it a deliberately malicious act if you neglect to make me aware of any future fanfic that you write.

[Vortaan]

In SA, your actions determines if you get investiture/magical powers.

So, Renarin acting in a way that would help save the world, would result in attracting a spren.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can have "normal" guys here doing extraordinary stuff.

Demoux on Roshar would have magic.

 

I don't think this can be entirely true.The KR did not seem like a huge organization, they seemed more like special forces. If this is the case, I'll bet that many normal people did extraordinary things and didn't bond with a spren that would have made it possible to be a KR.

[Mailliw73]

Feather...that Sadeas Shardblade metaphor...right in my feels!

Also, I will consider it a deliberately malicious act if you neglect to make me aware of any future fanfic that you write.

This. Storm it, Alaxel, why do you always have to voice my own thoughts before I even think them. Have you read Beneath the Bells of Kharbranth and A Training Session? Those are also Feather's really good fanfic Edited November 10, 2013 by Mailliw73

[Guest Alaxel]

This. Storm it, Alaxel, why do you always have to voice my own thoughts before I even think them. Have you read Beneath the Bells of Kharbranth and A Training Session? Those are also Feather's really good fanfic

I have and I love all of them. My all time favorite moment is either that Sadeas Shardblade metaphor or Renarin feeling a connection to the words Shallan was spelling for him because they shared the same letters / the pictures she drew to teach him to phonetically pronounce the letters.

[marianmi]

I don't think this can be entirely true.The KR did not seem like a huge organization, they seemed more like special forces. If this is the case, I'll bet that many normal people did extraordinary things and didn't bond with a spren that would have made it possible to be a KR.

 

I beg to differ. On several points:

* at some point, KR did seem like a huge organization - having oathgates all over the world, maybe a thousand members (~200 members confirmed from 2 orders), having their own city, etc.

* they were not just special forces. They were also leading "normal", human armies. They were on the front lines because they could arrive quickly in a battle, but presumably the regular soldiers would follow

* while doing one extraordinary action does not mean you will get a bond, those with bonds had to do at least one extraordinary thing to get it. Moreover, from a quote in a book, the ideals were a way of life. So it was not "one" action, but a recurring display, that would attract a spren. Training in Urithiru, like Dalinar was invited to do in his vision, would try shape character in a way that would ease attracting a bond. Of course, if you are the wrong material, no amount of "training" will make you a KR.

* I can't see why other surgebinders won't exist outside the KR organization

[FeatherWriter]

Feather...that Sadeas Shardblade metaphor...right in my feels!

Also, I will consider it a deliberately malicious act if you neglect to make me aware of any future fanfic that you write.

 

This. Storm it, Alaxel, why do you always have to voice my own thoughts before I even think them. Have you read Beneath the Bells of Kharbranth and A Training Session? Those are also Feather's really good fanfic

 

I... I... I wish I could give you guys more upvotes than one at a time. (Yes, I'm rather proud of the Shardblade metaphor. I had to try a couple different drafts of that sentence to make it work just the way I wanted.)

 

If you really want to see my fanfics, I've only got 4 fics right now, all Stormlight (which I think both of you have already read, but in case anyone else is curious):

• "A Training Session"
• "Beneath The Bells of Kharbranth"
• The little drabble above, which is untitled right now
• A Strange Mix of Both (which currently has 4 chapters but will have more eventually)

If you want to see more, you should maybe follow that tumblr? Because that's where I post all my writing stuff. I tend to think that people over here don't want me bugging them with fanfics and such, so I don't post things over here. I know there's a Creator's Corner board, but do people really check it? Same for things like fanmixes or analyses.

 

If y'all want to see more of that though, I can certainly post it over here! I mean I was wondering if I should post the Dalinar mix that I did yesterday over here, but the last two mixes I did didn't really get much response here, so I thought I shouldn't bother. Perhaps you all are growing though!

[marianmi]

@Feather:

 

* “Next time, you shouldn’t let me win.” http://featherwriter.tumblr.com/post/41129552657/a-training-session-stormlight-archive-fanfic

* "She and Renarin seemed to be spending quite a lot of time together recently." LOL

 

 

EDIT: maybe we should make a thread for discussing these

Edited November 11, 2013 by marianmi

[Guest Alaxel]

Like a FeatherWriter Fanfic Fan Club Thread lol?