NEW INFO: Renarin's Spren

[marianmi]

Actually, now that I think about it, I can see Jasnah coming out to fight too. Basically everyone in the camp who is capable of fighting, I can picture running to help protect Dalinar. If they hear news of or see Szeth's arrival, of course.

 

Let's not forget Navani, who will try to protect her new found love, and will fight Szeth with her sneaky fabrials! Sadeas will hear the commotion, and join the fray, helping Szeth to get rid of the damnation Kholin once and for all. Elhokar will be close and join the fight, BS giving us a clear proof that he will be KR. I think Elhokar will be the one, in order to revenge his father, which will mortally would Szeth, discovering his radiantness in the process.

 

Did I forget anyone?

 

Oh yeah, Szeth will finally be resurrected by Lift, which happened to be there running away from Darkness. Only Darkness will be onto her, find a camp full of radiants, and start fighting everyone, helped by his surgebinding minions of course. Almost everyone dies. 

 

'Dalinar Kholin! Dalinar Kholin! Your guards in Kholinar told me I will find you.... What in the name of Odium is going on here?! Nal? Where have you been all these years?! Nal, you piece of ****** !!!'. Yeah, Taln will join the fight too.

And then everyone dies.

 

The end.

 

edit:

@FeatherWriter: I think this one is much better, what do you think? The drama, the unfolding of events... I hate to praise myself, but it's just brilliant...

Edited November 6, 2013 by marianmi

[Guest Alaxel]

Hahahaha all of these are fantastic speculations. I don't honestly believe that any of them will happen, though. I can't speak for others, but I was merely contemplating what would be amusing, not what would be probable.

...sometimes I find myself searching through these forums, dissecting every WoB I can find, analyzing everything Peter says, attempting to extrapolate what the future may hold from the the seemingly most inconsequential details...

It's good to take a break from that and just be a little ridiculous.

[Gloom]

And all this to say, Szeth is smart enough to recognize there are some pretty strong people motivated to protect Dalinar. In fact, the idea of attacking Dalinar in this net of safety is why Szeth, talented and amazing as he is, was the one given the task. I really doubt any of these scenarios take into account that Szeth is not going to be ignorant enough of the population in the Kholin warcamp to try and attack Dalinar while any others are in a position to defend him.

 

It makes infinitely more sense for Szeth to wait or create a scenario where Dalinar is separated from anyone but his bodyguards. Kaladin (or Moash or Skar) are the only ones, plausibly, who will be in the position to stand between Szeth and Dalinar.

 

I seriously doubt that Szeth will get wind of the fact that there are Surgebinders about. They seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping their skills quiet. Szeth was told to make a scene. He was told to make noise and raise holy hell. He isn't allowed to take Dalinar down quietly. He has to hit Dalinar in his camp surrounded by his people to fulfill the letter of his orders.

[Fistsofrage]

Szeth never seems to care how strong the enemy is. He's the best at what he does and he has a death wish. He's not careless but he doesn't really do research on the enemy either so I'll have to agree with Gloom on this one.

[Greywatch]

I seriously doubt that Szeth will get wind of the fact that there are Surgebinders about. They seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping their skills quiet. Szeth was told to make a scene. He was told to make noise and raise holy hell. He isn't allowed to take Dalinar down quietly. He has to hit Dalinar in his camp surrounded by his people to fulfill the letter of his orders.

 

Ah, I had a post all written and accidentally clicked away. I'll try to recreate it.

 

I also am of the opinion that our heroes will have done well on the "keeping their Surgebinding a secret" front. And I don't where it said it had to be public, only that it must be brutal, which doesn't have the implication of happening right out in the open. (Though if there is new info, I would def like to read it!)

 

Szeth is not suicidal; there is a difference between charging in the second he gets to the Shattered Plains and approaching the killing with some degree of intelligence. Even if he does just go for it - and he may - numbers of people in Shardplate and/or Shardblades don't even make Szeth blink. He can handle that without slowing down. 

 

As I see it, the only one who could even take on Szeth's abilities and give him pause would be Kaladin, unless maybe Adolin is a lot better than Gavilar, Adolin being the only potential defender of Dalinar with both Plate and Blade.

[Guest Alaxel]

@Greywatch

 

I think you're right.  If there is a confrontation between Szeth and Dalinar, Adolin will not trust his father's safety to a Bridgeman slave who doesn't have either Plate or Blade, no matter how talented with a spear he is.  Especially when the enemy is the man who killed Galivar, who was a full shardbearer and was commonly regarded as one of the best swordsmen in Alethkar.  Adolin will take up a strictly defensive roll towards Dalinar while Kaladin, seeing his surgebinding abilities in an enemy, will eagerly fight Szeth to hopefully gain more understanding of what it is he can do.

 

Or maybe Szeth will just wait till everyone is sleeping and use his Shardblade/Lashing trick to cut through the walls and butcher Dalinar in his sleep.  That would be a disappointment.

[Gloom]

Szeth does do his research. He researched Taravangian, he took his time, he made a plan. But when his instructions are "I'm afraid it must be done quickly, before he can unite the Alethi highprinces. You will go to the Shattered Plains and end him. It must be done brutally I'm afraid.". Then I'm inclined to believe that his planning will be brief. I view his interpretation of the instructions based on his actions in the past when he received similar instructions, and the cover of WoR. I don't think that Szeth is going to put a great deal of planning into killing Dalinar. He will learn where Dalinar is, the complement of his guard, and what the best approach will be, he will try to determine how many Shardblades are in Dalinars camp, and how many set of Plate, but he isn't going to sneak into camp in the dead of night and stab him a hundred times in his sleep, he's going to mow through everyone standing in his way until he's burned Dalinars eyes out or die trying.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Gloom

[marianmi]

You forget that Szeth: 

 

* hates killing innocents, he only wants his target. he would be glad to be killed, but by his target

* kills everyone who sees him surgebinding (he hated the king of jah kaved cause he forced him to kill all those witnesses there at the party)

 

he always tries to get his target alone, to minimize casualties.

 

Besides, in his entire fight with gavilar, where were the others? where was jasnah? where was navani? why did they not jump to help Gavilar then? And I don't see Szeth attacking like a bull, whoever is there. He will try to get Dalinar when he's alone.

I don't doubt that whoever is with him will engage Szeth - the spearmen, Kaladin, Adolin, even the women. IF THEY ARE THERE. But since Szeth will try to avoid bloodshed I doubt he will go after Dalinar when he's with them.

 

Btw, I wonder how a spearman will react to Szeth, given that they have seen Kaladin surgebinding.

[Gamma Fiend]

Did I miss the "everybody now loves Renarin absolutely" memo?

I just notice. There's been a lot of Renarin love recently. When/How did this start? I mean. I like him so far as a character, kinda. Haven't really seen or heard too much from him yet. This Spren he sees can be really interesting. Since we know BS is careful with his words, I find his phrasing very interesting. The people on here calling for this Spren is something connected to his sick-periods, I agree. What makes his Spren special?
Since it was said "nobody else can see", has to be something different than anything we know so far. Otherwise he would have said "Nobody but Rock can see".

Although does make Renarin a little more interesting now. What if he doesn't pause before saying something to think of what to say, but just to liisten to what to say? And what/who exactly gave him the idea to run forward to confront a chasmfiend? I really hope his Spren is mischevious/the oppposite of Renarin's current personality. Which would fit the theme of Spren we've seen so far.

[marianmi]

I can't believe http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4516-new-info-renarins-spren/page-7#entry72669 did not get me any votes... i gave you the spoiler for the entire book, ppl!

 

 

Although does make Renarin a little more interesting now. What if he doesn't pause before saying something to think of what to say, but just to liisten to what to say? And what/who exactly gave him the idea to run forward to confront a chasmfiend? I really hope his Spren is mischevious/the oppposite of Renarin's current personality. Which would fit the theme of Spren we've seen so far.

 

Well, my theory is that Renarin's spren is 100% of a certain shard. Maybe even Odium.

[Aether]

I can't believe http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4516-new-info-renarins-spren/page-7#entry72669 did not get me any votes... i gave you the spoiler for the entire book, ppl!

Here. Have one from me. This type of nonsensical and radical theorycrafting deserves an upvote at the very least for the effort!

[FeatherWriter]

@Gamma Fiend: I take credit/blame for the Renarinaissance (which is a term that I just came up with and that I am sticking with from now on).

 

See, here's the thing about Renarin: he's awesome/tragic/heartbreaking/incredible, but he isn't obvious about it. So people read WoK through once and miss his amazingness because he's not a PoV character and he stays in the background of most of the scenes that he's in. The main characters get the spotlight in a first readthrough, for obvious reasons. They're the ones you focus on.

 

However, after a few readthroughs, you start to pick up on the background stuff. Renarin struck me in my first few readthroughs as "quiet and sweet." I didn't look much more into it. Then... I started to pay attention to him. And I just kept falling more and more in love with his character and who he was as a person. I tend to try to tell people now to watch out for Renarin when they pick up the book, because his is a blink-and-you'll-miss-it sort of characterization.

 

When you're watching him though, there is so much that we can interpret from his character and all of it simultaneously breaks and warms my heart. The Cosmere Fandom over on tumblr kind of all just started to fall in love with him together and we all built up off each other until the whole fandom has become a huge mess of feels and protective instincts for this quiet younger Kholin brother. So, then I come back here, full to the brim with analysis and and headcanons and quotes about him, and... see that people around here haven't realized the stuff about him that I have.

 

Of course, I am happy to share my thoughts, knowledge, and research, as seen throughout this thread. And when it's explained to people and the quotes are all compiled side-by-side, my dear sweet Renarin makes a pretty compelling case for character that we should all be appreciating. People jump on board. And I celebrate that Renarin's starting to get the attention and fans that he deserves.

 

RE Rock: I think it's possible that Rock could see Renarin's spren. The quote says "sees a spren that nobody else does." That does not say, if you will note, "that no one else can." I think it's possible that Rock could see the spren, but he and Renarin don't ever cross paths in WoK, so there isn't an opportunity for him to see Renarin's spren.

Edited November 7, 2013 by FeatherWriter

[Gloom]

Did I miss the "everybody now loves Renarin absolutely" memo?

 

A handful of people have discovered that if they spout off a number of empty platitudes about Renarin, or mention how unbelievably awesome he is, then ship him with Lift or something, then they get upvoted for a post with very little substance. This is the very first thread I have been in where people are flat out jockying for upvotes, and getting them.

[Guest AmruthS]

@FeatherWriter

 

About Rock: In WoK, Bridge 4 were in Sadeas's Camp. So the possibility of Rock seeing Renarin's spren is Zero.

 

At the end of the WoK, Every Bridgemen have shifted to Dalinar's Camp and also Bridge 4 have been given the task to protect Dalinar's Family, So in WoR, the chances of Rock being able to see Renarin's spren increases substantially. But it depends on Rock if He wants to tell about the spren to Renarin or Kaladin (depends on the situation).

[Guest Alaxel]

A handful of people have discovered that if they spout off a number of empty platitudes about Renarin, or mention how unbelievably awesome he is, then ship him with Lift or something, then they get upvoted for a post with very little substance. This is the very first thread I have been in where people are flat out jockying for upvotes, and getting them.

 

There is a lot of truth in this.  Hell, I've definitely solicited an upvote - however, it was more in the spirit of driving the thread forward, even in to ridiculous discussions, to help someone enjoy their passion than it was to horde points.  I'm an enabler that way.

Also, I've seen people get downvoted for the same thing.  A downvote is for an inappropriate, irrelevant, or hostile post.  Not a difference of opinion.

 

PS, Gloom, I'm still laughing about that ''this ship will rot in drydock'' pun hahaha

Edited November 7, 2013 by Alaxel

[Daishi5]

You forget that Szeth: 

 

* hates killing innocents, he only wants his target. he would be glad to be killed, but by his target

* kills everyone who sees him surgebinding (he hated the king of jah kaved cause he forced him to kill all those witnesses there at the party)

 

he always tries to get his target alone, to minimize casualties.

 

Besides, in his entire fight with gavilar, where were the others? where was jasnah? where was navani? why did they not jump to help Gavilar then? And I don't see Szeth attacking like a bull, whoever is there. He will try to get Dalinar when he's alone.

I don't doubt that whoever is with him will engage Szeth - the spearmen, Kaladin, Adolin, even the women. IF THEY ARE THERE. But since Szeth will try to avoid bloodshed I doubt he will go after Dalinar when he's with them.

 

Btw, I wonder how a spearman will react to Szeth, given that they have seen Kaladin surgebinding.

Remember that the reason Dalinar started following the codes is because he failed to protect his brother because he was too drunk.  The codes dictate that during a war, officers and soldiers should always be ready and sober.  By making everyone follow the codes in his camp, Dalinar has set things up so that what happened with Gavilar will not happen again.

[FeatherWriter]

A handful of people have discovered that if they spout off a number of empty platitudes about Renarin, or mention how unbelievably awesome he is, then ship him with Lift or something, then they get upvoted for a post with very little substance. This is the very first thread I have been in where people are flat out jockying for upvotes, and getting them.

 

That's... kind of a not very kind attitude, Gloom. I mean, we say that the purpose of the rep system is to encourage good kinds of posts and discourage bad ones, right? Therefore the posts that get lots of upvotes are the ones which are "good" and should be emulated and the ones that get downvotes are "bad" and those behaviours should be avoided. Right?

 

I make my posts for other people. I talk about Renarin and make theories and posts in the hope that what I am writing can improve someone else's understanding or make them happy. I like when people give me upvotes because that means they thought I contributed something good or that they enjoyed. My writing made someone else happy enough that they wanted to show that to me with the feedback enough of an upvote? That's one of the best feelings I can get.

 

So when I see other people doing the same thing: making posts that they know I will enjoy - like talking about Shallarin or affirming how awesome Renarin is - I'm gonna show them that I appreciate that by giving them an upvote, obviously. Even if they say: "I am writing this because I know Feather will like it," that is super awesome that people are trying to make things that they think I will like, and storm it, I'm gonna tell them that I love that they're doing that with an upvote. And if someone were to make a post that they thought people would like, and then it gets no upvotes, they're going to wonder what they may have done wrong and why people didn't like it.

 

This thread, insofar as the discussion of Renarin has gone, is in my opinion a lot of people talking about a character that makes them happy and by doing that they're making other people happy, so they're given upvotes for that. Let's not be disparaging and dismissive of people being nice to each other and enjoying the forum, please? Can we assume that people are doing these things because they want to do them and that it makes them happy instead of presuming that they're doing this out of an empty, selfish greed for something as silly as rep?

[Guest Alaxel]

Honestly, I like Feather's fancic.

 

Shallan teaching Renarin to read by giving him pictures to help him sound out the letters?  Ouch, right in the feels...

(Even if I doubt it will actually happen, it's enjoyable.)

The least I can do is repay her in kind and try and send some new ideas her way that she might want to include in a fanfic.  Or not.  It doesn't matter to me one way or another, but if I can help inspire Feather to write more fanfic's that I enjoy then I'll do precisely that haha.

 

Besides - in nearly every other thread in this forum I am sifting through every bit of information that I can find, looking for truth.  I try and divine the future from the most inconsequential details.  (Brandon hesitated a second before he said RAFO - what does that tell me?!)  It's nice to take a break from theorycraftying and getting with something a little ridiculous and a lotta enjoyable.  

[junior]

You forget that Szeth: 

 

* hates killing innocents, he only wants his target. he would be glad to be killed, but by his target

* kills everyone who sees him surgebinding (he hated the king of jah kaved cause he forced him to kill all those witnesses there at the party)

 

he always tries to get his target alone, to minimize casualties.

 

Besides, in his entire fight with gavilar, where were the others? where was jasnah? where was navani? why did they not jump to help Gavilar then? And I don't see Szeth attacking like a bull, whoever is there. He will try to get Dalinar when he's alone.

I don't doubt that whoever is with him will engage Szeth - the spearmen, Kaladin, Adolin, even the women. IF THEY ARE THERE. But since Szeth will try to avoid bloodshed I doubt he will go after Dalinar when he's with them.

 

Btw, I wonder how a spearman will react to Szeth, given that they have seen Kaladin surgebinding.

 

When Szeth attacked Gavilar, Dalinar was an insensate drunk.  It's not too difficult to imagine that Jasnah and Navani were similarly indisposed (further, they weren't the target; if they were aware of what was going on, then they were probably trying to stay out of the way).  Sadeas, on the other hand, *was* present and tried to make himself useful.  And Szeth killed a number of guards on his way to the king.

 

Mere custom dictates that someone like Dalinar is almost never alone.  He's an important nobleman and a member of the royal family.  He's pretty much always going to be guarded because of his obvious value as a target.  And the end of WotK makes it clear that he expects to become even more of a target with the changes that he and his nephew are about to institute.  That means that the watch on him is going to be even tighter.  Catching him alone is going to be well-nigh impossible.

[Argent]

The reading from the Words of Radiance prologue reveals that Jasnah at least was not... indisposed. And I doubt her mother would be either.

[Aether]

A handful of people have discovered that if they spout off a number of empty platitudes about Renarin, or mention how unbelievably awesome he is, then ship him with Lift or something, then they get upvoted for a post with very little substance. This is the very first thread I have been in where people are flat out jockying for upvotes, and getting them.

Here! Have an upvote!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether

[Natans]

Here! Have an upvote!

 

One doubt, what is the big deal with upvotes anyway ?

 

This is a thing you can give losing nothing, and apparently receive one make the person happy, so maybe the people could be more "open handed" and spread happiness =)

 

LoL

[junior]

The reading from the Words of Radiance prologue reveals that Jasnah at least was not... indisposed. And I doubt her mother would be either.

 

Then they'd be following the alternate plan, which is to stay out of the way and let the guards do their jobs.

[marianmi]

So why would they not do the same now?

We're under attack, let the guards do their duty...

[Mailliw73]

Honestly, I like Feather's fancic.

 

Shallan teaching Renarin to read by giving him pictures to help him sound out the letters?  Ouch, right in the feels...

(Even if I doubt it will actually happen, it's enjoyable.)

The least I can do is repay her in kind and try and send some new ideas her way that she might want to include in a fanfic.  Or not.  It doesn't matter to me one way or another, but if I can help inspire Feather to write more fanfic's that I enjoy then I'll do precisely that haha.

Me too! Exactly how I feel! If that just happens to get us upvotes, then that's a bonus!