michaelmj11

Kaladin's two different Frost symbol's/glyphs on the ground in WoR

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What two different glyphs/symbols are displayed behind/under Kaladin after he says the words of the Third Ideal?

The first looks like a pair of wings (while he is in the hallway), and the second (after he drops down) looks like a sword .

I am guessing one is the Knights Radiant.... the wings? And the sword is the Windrunners from the 10 orders illustration on Brandon's site. I am mostly curious about the winged sigil/glyph/symbol.

I have the audiobooks, so if there is a Web link to an image, I would really appreciate it.

Edited by michaelmj11
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The same glyph can be written in many different ways, so both could be the windrunner glyph.

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The top-right sapphire glyph here is the symbol of the Windrunners, and it looks like wings. I believe that's what Kaladin got.

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I know glyphs can be written many different ways, but why in the space of what 10-30 minutes would Kaladin's magic stormlight flatulence create two different patterns?

Because in both instances I seriously doubt that Kaladin is actively thinking about pretty ways to depict Windrunners symbols, so there is something else deciding which image to produce.

So Moogle, you are suggesting that both times the pattern/image is produced, it is simply the Windrunners symbol and Brandon simply chose to write it out as being perceived differently by two different people? (Moeash and Adolin)

Edited by firstRainbowRose
Please use the edit button instead of double posting. Thanks!
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I know glyphs can be written many different ways, but why in the space of what 10-30 minutes would Kaladin's magic stormlight flatulence create two different patterns?

Because in both instances I seriously doubt that Kaladin is actively thinking about pretty ways to depict Windrunners symbols, so there is something else deciding which image to produce.

If you look at the hardcover for the Way of Kings, you'll see an extended Windrunner glyph that looks like a sword.

Wings vs. sword are just different interpretations of the same symbol.

Edited by Slowswift
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I'm guessing one is for Windrunners and the other is for the Windrunner's patron Herald aka Jezrien (I seem to recall the Honourblade changing shape discussion about some glyphs appearing similar to/symbolising particular Heralds)

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Yah, right there with you Slowswift. That (to me) looks like when Kaladin is landing out on the plains when Brandon had Adolin think the image appeared like a sword.

I am more interested in what image was crated immediately after the 3rd ideal, when Kaladin was still in the hallway with Moeash

And the different interpretation of thr same Windrunners symbols still goes back to my comments about kaladin not actively thinking about making pretty pretty frost imagaes, so why would they be different?

Edited by michaelmj11
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Ha, so when I saw your thread title the first thing I thought of was the "old reptile", since you capitalized "Frost". Admittedly, that's what got me to click, since I was so confused how Frost could manipulate glyphs. I'm glad it wasn't what I thought it was. 

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I'm with Moogle here - the simplest explanation is that it is the same glyph.  With all of the important symbolism and connections between the Radiant Orders and their corresponding Herald, it would not be surprising that there is some Cognitive connection between the spren and the Honorblades.  I suspect that the glyph is indeed the stylized version of Jezrien's sword, and the Windrunner bond has "echoes" of the conneciton.

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Because in both instances I seriously doubt that Kaladin is actively thinking about pretty ways to depict Windrunners symbols, so there is something else deciding which image to produce.

I thought I remembered hearing someone say that it has to do with Cymatics so the level of his Stormlight Efficiency causes a change in frequency that allows this.

 

But honestly, I don't know

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I thought I remembered hearing someone say that it has to do with Cymatics so the level of his Stormlight Efficiency causes a change in frequency that allows this.

 

But honestly, I don't know

 

I had a theory on that (though plenty of others have expressed similar thoughts independently - I don't even know if I can claim to be first), but it was just a theory. It was also proved wrong.

 

We know by WoB that what causes this is the Radiant "compressing" the Realms. My interpretation of that is, a Spiritual ideal relating to the Windrunners is etched on Kaladin's soul, so the way that's expressed to humans when the Realms are being compressed is filtered through the Cognitive (which links the "Windrunner Spiritual ideal" to the symbol of the Windrunners/Jezrien's Honorblade because that's what is culturally associated with them) and this then these images display in the Physical in the form of frost.

Edited by Moogle
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I'm sure I'm wrong based on the much more knowledgeable replies above, but I always assumed that the windrunner glyph was a combination of the two symbols. If you look at the middle of the windrunner glyph it looks like a sword and if you look at the outside, they look like wings. 

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I'm sure I'm wrong based on the much more knowledgeable replies above, but I always assumed that the windrunner glyph was a combination of the two symbols. If you look at the middle of the windrunner glyph it looks like a sword and if you look at the outside, they look like wings.

I sort of agree with that, so what I would like to know is why they were separated, or showed up piecemeal rather than as a combined symbol?

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Odds are I'm way off but I think it could simply be due to the event.  Wings were when he swore the third ideal so it makes sense that it's the full glyph, while the sword is his action glyph.

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But does Kaladin even know what the Windrunners symbol looks like? I mean there is all this talk about the Knights Radiant as a whole, but it certainly seems that most of the characters were ignorant about most of the information pertaining to the orders.

So IF, and yes this is a big IF, Kaladin didn't know the symbol what outside "thing" controlled which symbols get displayed when?

I can't remember, in Dalinar's visions, when the pair of radiants help save the family from the smokie opponents, did Those radiants create poooofs of stormlight that formed symbols or just simply landing in a "puff"?

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So IF, and yes this is a big IF, Kaladin didn't know the symbol what outside "thing" controlled which symbols get displayed when?

 

See the WoB I posted above. It's a "compressing" of the Realms. They begin to affect each other more because Kaladin compresses them. Not that that answers your question, exactly, but it's not some mysterious force as far as we can tell.

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But does Kaladin even know what the Windrunners symbol looks like?

 

The Windrunner Symbol is the of the ten "basic glyphs", so it is very likely that Kaladin could recognize it. [To follow my thought: In the TWOK-Chapter about the chasmfiend hunt Elhokar's blade is discribed with "having the ten basic glyphs on it". In WOR there is an illustration of Elhokar's Shardequipment, with the ten order glyphs from the Surgebinding diagram].

 

NOTE: Would be good to know which Order would have all the Order Symbols on it's blade. Bondsmiths, probably?

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Bondsmiths don't get shardblades, so I would guess that it is just personal preference, but whether from the pre-death spren or the radiant I can't  decide.

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See the WoB I posted above. It's a "compressing" of the Realms. They begin to affect each other more because Kaladin compresses them. Not that that answers your question, exactly, but it's not some mysterious force as far as we can tell.

 

A mysterious force, or a visual representation of the Ideals the Spren demand to be part of the order, perhaps?

 

Bondsmiths don't get shardblades, so I would guess that it is just personal preference, but whether from the pre-death spren or the radiant I can't  decide.

 

That's not exactly correct is it? I recall the Stormfather saying he would not be a shardblade for Dalinar, but not that Bondsmiths don't get to have one.

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I always assumed that Dalinars Nahel Bond was a little unique even in regards to the Bondsmiths unique-ness~~~

 

I thought it was just a fuller version of the Windrunner sigil Glyph. Like proof of a level up...  :ph34r:

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