Random man

Question about Koloss

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A question occurred to me while rereading AoL. If a Twinborn were turned into a koloss through hemalurgy would he retain his abilities as a Twinborn? Which led to the same question about Mistings, Ferrings, Mistborn, and full Feruchemists.

 

I don't see logical reasons for them to lose their abilities, since hemalurgy steals part of someone else's spirit web and attaches it to yours. Which wouldn't seem like it would cause you to lose your own abilities as you're adding to yourself, but we have never seen a created koloss use Allomancy or Feruchemy. So I was curious what other peoples thoughts were, because an a-bendalloy f-steel koloss sounds awesome.

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At a guess, they probably would retain their abilities, but as a koloss they would probably have a hard time keeping metalminds on them or buying metals to swallow. Assuming they even retain enough intelligence or memories of their human selves to know how to use their powers, a point I'm not all that clear on. Human had major issues, even if he wasn't completely dumb.

Edited by Moogle
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Kurkistan, thanks for the confirmation on koloss keeping their Allomancy, and it would make sense that they would keep their Feruchemy as well. Now I'm off to think of fun koloss Twinborns.

 

EDIT- Army of koloss Mistings/Ferrings under the control of a Soother/Rioter.

Edited by Random man
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While you're at it, why not give them one additional spike to make them a Compounder with an extra kick? Like, an Allomantic pewter/Feruchemical gold twinborn, spike him with Feruchemical pewter, spike him with four spikes to make him Koloss, and watch him rip apart mountains?

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I don't always necro (Return?) but when I do, I double post... ( ... twinpost?)

 

Unlike a spike through the eye or heart, a spike in the side like the Koloss have doesn't seem to be fatal to remove; Spook and Yomen are two cases of people removing a hemalurgic spike, so we know it's not always fatal.

 

If you removed the spike, would a koloss revert back to human the way a Kandra reverts back to a mistwraith? Or would the body not revert, and presumably die, since koloss probably cannot survive their own bodies without the many benefits of enhanced physical attributes?

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I would guess that their mental acuity might revert, but that the physical changes would remain and very rapidly result in their deaths.

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Unlike a spike through the eye or heart, a spike in the side like the Koloss have doesn't seem to be fatal to remove; Spook and Yomen are two cases of people removing a hemalurgic spike, so we know it's not always fatal.

 

If you removed the spike, would a koloss revert back to human the way a Kandra reverts back to a mistwraith? Or would the body not revert, and presumably die, since koloss probably cannot survive their own bodies without the many benefits of enhanced physical attributes?

The short answer is: we don't know.

We know next to nothing about physical changes associated with hemalurgy. We don't know if the spikes are removable, or if they go through heart and , say, kidneys, just from the sides.

Is the physical change instant? We know it is relatively rapid (within weeks), but does the person instantly become Koloss? Does it start when the first spike goes in, or only when the fourth one does? What would happen if the fourth spike was not inserted? Death? Saner but weaker Koloss? When does mind start to go?

Kandra are different. They are very flexible, they don't seem to have many vital organs, and they don't use those for spikes (they use muscles). They also shapeshift, so external phenotype changes are not obvious. They seem to be able to uptake several sets of Human Attribute spikes without any side effects.

And you forgot about Vin habitually removing her spike  :)

Someone really should catch Brandon and discuss Hemalurgy in long, gruesome detail :)

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Is the physical change instant? We know it is relatively rapid (within weeks), but does the person instantly become Koloss? Does it start when the first spike goes in, or only when the fourth one does? What would happen if the fourth spike was not inserted? Death? Saner but weaker Koloss? When does mind start to go?

The rate of change is something I am very curious to know.

 

I know the MAG is far from perfect as a source, however in this case what it says makes the most sense to me.

 

Basically it says that individual iron spikes enhance muscle mass and size and also effect the recipient's height. Every iron spike also results in a dip in intelligence as well as the normal problems associated with any spike. Multiple spikes simply stack these effects as the recipient gets closer in intelligence, strength and appearance to a kollos. I can't see any reason for 2-3 iron spikes to kill someone while 4 doesn't and I am personally inclined to believe this description to be reasonably accurate.

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Basically it says that individual iron spikes enhance muscle mass and size and also effect the recipient's height. Every iron spike also results in a dip in intelligence as well as the normal problems associated with any spike. Multiple spikes simply stack these effects as the recipient gets closer in intelligence, strength and appearance to a kollos. I can't see any reason for 2-3 iron spikes to kill someone while 4 doesn't and I am personally inclined to believe this description to be reasonably accurate.

Well, the height change isn't instant - Kolossi grow for ~20 years before dying of heart failure. The blue, extensive skin seems to be rapid. As for less than 4 spikes - it was told that Inquisitors and TLR experimented for a 1000 years trying to make another Hema race. If you could simply remove 1 spike and get a smarter Koloss, I am pretty sure they would have discovered it. Maybe the changes induced by 3 spikes are unbalanced, and result in faster failure rate? (as Kandra need 2 spikes of the same attribute) Or the resulting skin is not blue enough, or large enough? Spike position also matters, even for Allomancy spikes (the side effects of steel through brain vs steel though chest seem different). I am pretty sure MAG is even less reliable for Hemalurgy than other two Arts, even if simply because there is so little we know about it.

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As I said, MAG is far from a perfect source. In this case however it does line up fairly well with what I think. I just don't see 2-3 spikes not being survivable, to a point, but then, 4 spikes is also only survivable to a point. You would likely be some awfully twisted inbetween thing, by the time you had 3 spikes in for a bit you might not *want* to have much of your intelligence left. I think if you knew where to put the spikes it should be 100% possible to only put 1-3 iron spikes into someone and have them survive as long as, likely longer than normal koloss. We do not, however, have much evidence to prove either way.

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Kandra are different. They are very flexible, they don't seem to have many vital organs, and they don't use those for spikes (they use muscles).

 

Nitpick: From Chapter 39 (HoA) when TenSoon is inserting the Blessing of Potency he stole from OreSuer.

 

TenSoon lay down, commanding the skin of his shoulder to part, and absorbed the spikes into his body. He moved them through muscles and ligaments-dissolving several organs, then re-forming them with the spikes piercing them.

 

Interesting quote from the Chapter 40 epigraph, talking about creating koloss.

 

Each pair of spikes grants what the kandra would call the Blessing of Potency. however, each spike also distorts the koloss body a little more, making them increasingly inhuman.

 

Which is... odd. I get the sense that any pair of "human attribute" spikes will interact with each other in your spiritweb, giving an effect very slightly different from just 1 spike + 1 spike. Yet, each spike twists your human form. So three spikes, then, are technically 1 "Blessing" plus 1 normal spike, and twists your body in a nearly koloss way.

 

I'd suspect the whole skin thing doesn't happen until the fourth spike is in. Also, and this is just gut, I think that at 3 spikes you might technically still survive, but you wouldn't be a useful form. You'd be strong, but I suspect it's like radio station frequencies. One station is human. You can turn the dial slightly, and you'll be at the "human with some fuzz" station. A bit more and it's just static. More, and you can start to hear the next station coming through.... and with the fourth spike, they land in a clear station. The Koloss station. At 3 spikes, I see a being of really powerful muscles whose body isn't built right, you couldn't really move right without breaking your own bones.

 

Sidenote: Presumably, just sticking someone with four Tin spikes prolly wouldn't work to make a sensory koloss, or Rashek would have managed that by now.

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Nitpick: From Chapter 39 (HoA) when TenSoon is inserting the Blessing of Potency he stole from OreSuer.

 

Ah, yes. The point about those organs not being vital still stands, though, or he wouldn't be able to dissolve them on the whim. Probably.

I don't think Kandra could dissolve his brain lobes, for example, or whathavethey, but I am not sure.

 

Interesting quote from the Chapter 40 epigraph, talking about creating koloss.

 

 

 

Which is... odd. I get the sense that any pair of "human attribute" spikes will interact with each other in your spiritweb, giving an effect very slightly different from just 1 spike + 1 spike. Yet, each spike twists your human form. So three spikes, then, are technically 1 "Blessing" plus 1 normal spike, and twists your body in a nearly koloss way.

 

I'd suspect the whole skin thing doesn't happen until the fourth spike is in. Also, and this is just gut, I think that at 3 spikes you might technically still survive, but you wouldn't be a useful form. You'd be strong, but I suspect it's like radio station frequencies. One station is human. You can turn the dial slightly, and you'll be at the "human with some fuzz" station. A bit more and it's just static. More, and you can start to hear the next station coming through.... and with the fourth spike, they land in a clear station. The Koloss station. At 3 spikes, I see a being of really powerful muscles whose body isn't built right, you couldn't really move right without breaking your own bones.

 

Sidenote: Presumably, just sticking someone with four Tin spikes prolly wouldn't work to make a sensory koloss, or Rashek would have managed that by now.

 

Well, yeah. Koloss is probably one of the relatively stable configurations, 3 spikes and lower being less so. Still, I wonder how the change happens - does it look like Feruchemical gold healing into Koloss from "human with 4 spikes", or what? What does Inquisitor's circulatory system look like, with several spikes through the heart?

And what is a sensory Koloss? :) What is the point of something with triple normal senses that is also probably too mad to tell you what it sees?

I still maintain that one could create an n-spiked being that would be smart/sane and surviving, if one knew *exactly* where to place which spike ( I also still believe in Kandrzilla, a Mistwraith that ate too many Koloss corpses and incorporated ~50 spikes, growing into giant, formless, bespiked being :D )

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 ( I also still believe in Kandrzilla, a Mistwraith that ate too many Koloss corpses and incorporated ~50 spikes, growing into giant, formless, bespiked being :D )

 

My wraithzilla is actually a herd a mistwraiths, each with a single iron spike (not enough for sentience) all trained to work in concert, inhabiting a massive, scorpion-looking exoskeleton. Each segment of metal armor has a bar inside the mistwraiths are trained to form around, so the entire thing is allomancy-proof. Ridden by a mad scientist.

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My wraithzilla is actually a herd a mistwraiths, each with a single iron spike (not enough for sentience) all trained to work in concert, inhabiting a massive, scorpion-looking exoskeleton. Each segment of metal armor has a bar inside the mistwraiths are trained to form around, so the entire thing is allomancy-proof. Ridden by a mad scientist.

Eh~ Your wraithzilla is naught but artifice, while Kandrzilla is a natural occurrence on Scadrial ;)

But if artifice is to be compared: behold, Kandrzilla Mark II, the Soulzilla:

A vast Mistwraith with all the bones replaced by thousands upon thousands Spikes, all bathed in blood, some for Strength to maintain its multiton bulk, some for Intelligence and Emotions to keep raging insanity in some semblance of control, some Allomantic and Feruchemic to grant it power envied by any Nicroburst Savant. Each spike is bathed in the blood of many, until it is full, and the beast is so full of ripped souls that it bleeds black smoke. Its brain lobes are protected by blood-soaked Aluminium  wires from any emotional Allomancy. It craves more souls, so it harvests metals, reforms them in its acid pouches and harvests every living being it happens upon :D

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Eh~ Your wraithzilla is naught but artifice, while Kandrzilla is a natural occurrence on Scadrial ;)

But if artifice is to be compared: behold, Kandrzilla Mark II, the Soulzilla:

A vast Mistwraith with all the bones replaced by thousands upon thousands Spikes, all bathed in blood, some for Strength to maintain its multiton bulk, some for Intelligence and Emotions to keep raging insanity in some semblance of control, some Allomantic and Feruchemic to grant it power envied by any Nicroburst Savant. Each spike is bathed in the blood of many, until it is full, and the beast is so full of ripped souls that it bleeds black smoke. Its brain lobes are protected by blood-soaked Aluminium  wires from any emotional Allomancy. It craves more souls, so it harvests metals, reforms them in its acid pouches and harvests every living being it happens upon :D

Except the whole "must pierce in very specific places to do anything" aspect of hemalurgy

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