Theory: Honor's Shard Shattered Like Adonalsium

[discipleofhoid]

So far as we have seen splinters are not/cannot be people, they are always things (spiritual objects?). The Divine Breath are splinters of Endowment, and, I may be wrong, but I think those are the only confirmed splinters that we have. It is heavily speculated that Seons and Skaze are splinters of SFHA (Shard formerly held by Aona) and SFHS (Shard Formerly held by Skaze), but I don't think we have any confirmation either way. We do know for a fact that Elantrians are not splinters or slivers. We had this all out with Brandon while back.

Brandon did say that the Seons did not exist before odium visited - That seem pretty good confirmation to me.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

We also know however that on Roshar, the Almighty existed while the Heralds were around, because in the 11/10 Q&A at his signing Brandon responded to a question that "yes the Almighty was still around when the Heralds 'packed it in'" in the prologue. LINK

Knowing that I would say that IF Honor was shattered in a similar manner to Aona and Skai, it happened after the Heralds refused to continue, and also after the Knights Radiant disbanded, because we see them disbanding in a vision the Almighty shows to Dalinar.

IF this theory is true, then I would say that it is more the reverse, that Honor shattered into 10 splinters because there are 10 facets that Honor naturally boils down to and that is why there are 10 orders of Knights Radiant, as a reflection of that, not that there are 10 orders because Honor shattered into 10 splinters.

Does a Shard have to be held? Could the whole shard be laying quiescent, waiting for someone to find it and bond with it? Leras seems to have basically been dead for a long time before Vin "picked up" that shard, or at least most of his Cognitive aspect were dead, sacrificed to trap Ruin, his physical body died right before Vin grabbed the mists... Honor may be dead and whole.

I'm inclined to believe that he is shattered, simply because I think Rayse is Odium and since Rayse shattered both Aona and Skai's Shards when he killed them, he likely did the same to Honor when he killed the Almighty.

[FeatherWriter]

I really like the idea that Honor was already ten-faceted before (if ever) it shattered. It gives me either the feeling of a cracked shard (separate but still held by one person) or of a willful deliniation of powers by Honor. I really like the cracked shard idea though!

Also, I'm pretty sure that the shard has to have some kind of cognitive aspect attatched to it, though weaker cognitives will not be able to use the power very well. Remember that Kel held Preservation sorta in between Leras's death and Vin's ascension. Though that makes me wonder, was Vin able to take the power away from Kel because she was still alive and could make a better connection, or did Kelsier willfully give the shard up as soon as the earring was out?

[CrazyRioter]

I think Kell wasn't really fully connected to the Shard and let go of what connection he did have as soon as Vin was able to take it.

[Thor]

I really like the idea that Honor was already ten-faceted before (if ever) it shattered. It gives me either the feeling of a cracked shard (separate but still held by one person) or of a willful deliniation of powers by Honor. I really like the cracked shard idea though!

Also, I'm pretty sure that the shard has to have some kind of cognitive aspect attatched to it, though weaker cognitives will not be able to use the power very well. Remember that Kel held Preservation sorta in between Leras's death and Vin's ascension. Though that makes me wonder, was Vin able to take the power away from Kel because she was still alive and could make a better connection, or did Kelsier willfully give the shard up as soon as the earring was out?

A little of both, as CrazyRioter said. Kelsier piggybacked on Preservation but he never had complete control over it and when it came time for Vin to take over, Kelsier willingly gave her what he had been using and abdicated his spot. Vin could have probably taken it away from Kelsier if he refused to give it up, as she was set up to be Preservation from birth.

As for Honor, I agree with Green Hoodie Mistborn; that idea takes most of what I already thought and condensed it nicely.

[hoser]

Does a Shard have to be held? Could the whole shard be laying quiescent, waiting for someone to find it and bond with it? Leras seems to have basically been dead for a long time before Vin "picked up" that shard, or at least most of his Cognitive aspect were dead, sacrificed to trap Ruin, his physical body died right before Vin grabbed the mists... Honor may be dead and whole.

I'm inclined to believe that he is shattered, simply because I think Rayse is Odium and since Rayse shattered both Aona and Skai's Shards when he killed them, he likely did the same to Honor when he killed the Almighty.

I really like this thought, because of the following quotes from Dalinar's final vision (paperback p 1246):

... and return to men the Shards they once bore.

A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And ... without the Dawnshards ... Well, I have done what I can.

My wacky interpretation says that there are multiple not-borne Shards that can be returned to men (Honor and Cultivation? (but Tanavast apparently refers to Cultivation in the present female tense earlier)). Apparently Tanavast's view is that they are almost necessary if the Final Desolation is to be kept from being fatal to people.

[Zas678]

In regards to the "return to men the Shards they once bore" I originally thought the same as you- and still do a little bit. There's a good chance of this having a double meaning. But keep in mind that Shards is also a name for Shardblades and Shardplate. So rather than talking about someone taking up Honor, it could just mean (and Dalinar will likely interpret it as) 'fixing' the Shardplate and Shardblade so that it glows, like it did with the Knights Radiant. This might be done by making oaths, as has been theorized about.

[hoser]

In regards to the "return to men the Shards they once bore" I originally thought the same as you- and still do a little bit. There's a good chance of this having a double meaning. But keep in mind that Shards is also a name for Shardblades and Shardplate. So rather than talking about someone taking up Honor, it could just mean (and Dalinar will likely interpret it as) 'fixing' the Shardplate and Shardblade so that it glows, like it did with the Knights Radiant. This might be done by making oaths, as has been theorized about.

Yes, I agree that you make a very good point. In the thread about the Shardbearer Kaladin killed, name_here makes the point that there are ~200-1400 Shardblades and Shardplate unaccounted for. So we have three possible non-exclusive interpretations: Adonalsium Shards, Radiant-like use of Shardblades and Shardplate, and sheer volume of Shardblades and Shardplate.

I wonder how effective Shardplate and Shardblades will be against Odium. It seems like taking a sword to a godfight (sorry). I can imagine Odium killing Tanavast and whoever holds Cultivation, but not wanting to take up their Shards (so as not to corrupt his own intent) or even splinter them (because he doesn't want to deal with the splinters). So he would try to hide or obscure them somehow (or, as the letter writer (Hoid?) thinks Rayse is devious, maybe they are booby-trapped). It seems to me that there won't be a satisfactory resolution without the non-Odium Shards of Adonalsium involved somehow. In addition, this series is partly about the return of magic and the Shards are what powers magic in this cosmere.

I then wonder about the whole cosmere arc. We have one series that unites two Shards. Surely Brandon would not be so predictable as to have another series that unites three Shards.

[Tulir]

I agree with hoser, that doesn't seem like Brandon would do something that predictable. I can't find the quote but isn't there a theory somewhere here that is discussing the fact that Kaladin probably holds a splinter of Honor and saying the Ideals helps him connect to it. If we take that as true, and I do, then how does that fit into this because I think this is a great theory, too.

[Ari]

Does a Shard have to be held? Could the whole shard be laying quiescent, waiting for someone to find it and bond with it? Leras seems to have basically been dead for a long time before Vin "picked up" that shard, or at least most of his Cognitive aspect were dead, sacrificed to trap Ruin, his physical body died right before Vin grabbed the mists... Honor may be dead and whole.

I'm inclined to believe that he is shattered, simply because I think Rayse is Odium and since Rayse shattered both Aona and Skai's Shards when he killed them, he likely did the same to Honor when he killed the Almighty.

While I suspect you're on the right track here, Kelsier somehow took charge of at least some of Preservation's power from beyond the grave before Vin burned out her body calling on the mists, so Preservation was held in some sense during the entire trilogy. It's entirely possible that a dead Knight Radiant already holds Honour or what's left of it in the same way that Kelsier held Preservation.

[Commander Spoonface]

I'm not totally certain on the usage of silver and splinter, but as I see it the Dawnshards are some part (sliver?) of Honor. I think that the Dawnshards work in a similar way to the 16 Shards of Adonalsium, in that they mold the user to their intent. That's why the ten Heralds represent the ten aspects of the Almighty; they were each molded to an aspect of Honor by the Dawnshard they carried. Those aspects are likely the Second/Third/Fourth ideals of the various orders of the Knights Radiant, e.g. "I will protect those that cannot protect themselves" is the second ideal of one of the orders, and Protection is an aspect of the almighty that is represented by one of the Heralds and their respective Dawnshard.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Commander Spoonface

[CrazyRioter]

I think you mean Splinter, a Silver is a human who at one time held a large part of a Shard and gave it up, a Splinter is a piece of a Shard and has never been human, though it seems they often bond to humans. Also, the Heralds' swords are called Honorblades, the Dawnshards are something else. Probably.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I'm not totally certain on the usage of silver and splinter, but as I see it the Dawnshards are some part (sliver?) of Honor. I think that the Dawnshards work in a similar way to the 16 Shards of Adonalsium, in that they mold the user to their intent. That's why the ten Heralds represent the ten aspects of the Almighty; they were each molded to an aspect of Honor by the Dawnshard they carried. Those aspects are likely the Second/Third/Fourth ideals of the various orders of the Knights Radiant, e.g. "I will protect those that cannot protect themselves" is the second ideal of one of the orders, and Protection is an aspect of the almighty that is represented by one of the Heralds and their respective Dawnshard.

Perhaps, but if the Heralds were molded to their particular ideals of Honor that their Honorblade/Dawnshard represented, would they have been able to give them up as easily as they did in the prelude? I wonder...

I am personally awed by the pure unadulterated hate displayed by Odium, sufficient to shatter 2 Shards on Sel, to kill the Almighty on Roshar, and to put fear into the hearts of the Herals of Honor!... quite a disturbing picture to see fear in the eyes of the Heralds which made them abandon their honor.

[Commander Spoonface]

Thank you. I think the Dawnshards were also held by the Heralds- assuming that they are splinters of Honor, there aren't a whole lot of other people that might have had access to them.

I think that the Honorblades are connected to the Dawnshards- for example, the breatplate of Shardplate is the focus of its energy, perhaps the Dawnshards act as some sort of power source, connecting the Honorblades directly to Honor's power.