32 posts in this topic

Hello everybody! This is my 2nd topic to post on this site, so forgive me if this has already been said but I thought I could point out the connections between the magic systems in the hope that we can learn how they relate to each other and the rest of the Cosmere. And I apologize in advanced, but this will be a very long post.  Unfortunately, I have not read from the Emperor's Soul, so I will not be able to speak to the power of Forging. If someone would like to add that into the comments, I would be appreciative. I will add a Tl;Dr section at the bottom for those not interested in reading the full post. 

 

I would like to reflect the opinions of everyone who wants to add input, this forum page is a place for discussion, as such please be respectful of everyone's opinions. If you disagree, I would be happy to reflect your opinion on this post.

 

To skip the explanation of all the magic systems, please feel free to Control+F "Connection" there will be a header that is bolded, italicized and underlined.

 

Obviously, this topic will contain spoilers for Elantris, Warbreaker, Mistborn, and Way of Kings, if you prefer to read the book first, I do suggest you book mark this page so you can return to it once you have read all the books, thank you!

 

I'm going to list a quick survey of the magic systems together so we can compare/ contrast them. I would absolutely love to hear any input or conjectures, no matter how big or small.

 

So let's get started then: 

 

 

Elantris:

 

Aon Dor: the magic of drawing Aons to access the Dor, a powerful pervasive magic that is focused through the massive Aon Rao which is Elantris and the surrounding areas. 

 

Notable Features: The Shaod will pick people in the surrounding areas of Arelon or Teod and transform them into Demi Gods of sorts, able to use Aon Dor. Once taken by the Shaod, the person's skin turns into silver and their hair turns a pure white. There is a connection between Aon Dor and Seons.

 

The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed by Aons.

 

ChayShan: the Magic of accessing the Dor to increase the Martial prowess. Known to the Jindoeese. 

 

Notable Featuresthis magic system was shown, only briefly, at the end of the book of Elantris. However, we know that similarly to AonDor, those who use the power rely on some sort of body gestures and motions (in this case a martial art) to access the Dor. Its effects seem to speed the martial artist up and giving them incredible power. So much, that Shuden was able to break the bones of a Dakhor monk.

 

The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed through a combination of martial arts and meditation.

 

Dakhor: the magic of enhancing the skeletal system and improving the body's capabilities far beyond what normal peoples should ever be able to accomplish. It does this by somehow by probably accessing the Dominion's gateway to the Dor.

 

Notable Features: only the Dakhor monks in Fjorden have ever been known to have this power. While it doesn't necessarily seem to be based on location, I assume that the knowledge of how to access this power is a heavily guarded secret kept by the Dakhor Monastery. The abilities include teleportation, the ability to enhance the human body by shaping the skeletal structure. The structure of the bones seems to change the varying levels of power in this system. It also has the ability to wipe out Aons. 

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections.

 

The Fuel: A willing human being must sacrifice himself.

 

 

 

The Mistborn Trilogy and The Mistborn Adventures, book one:

 

Allomancy: a magic that consumes metals to various effects. This magic comes from Preservation. 

 

Notable Features: Allomancy is an incredibly fun magic system in which the user can "burn" metals to push or pull on metals, forcibly change someone's emotions, hide themselves, find other Allomancers (and possibly find other uses of magics from other worlds, though this is speculation), strengthen their bodies and senses, affect their own stores (and those of others) of metals by depleting them or using them in a single burst of power, forsee the future and lastly affect time by slowing it down or speeding it up. This type of magic is genetic and becomes deluded after generations.

 

Fuel: The fuel for Allomany comes from Preservation's power using metals as a "focus" for that power similar to how Aons focused the Dor's power.

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections.

 

Feruchemy: the magic of Harmony. It relies on storing up an attribute into metals for later use. The use of this magic can be used to multiply the attributes several fold, but doing so drains the user quickly.

 

Notable Features: Feruchemy is an end neutral magic system. BioChroma might be end-neutral, also. If the user can store up enough of an attribute, s/he can expend it very powerfully for a short time, until an equilibrium has been reached. The user can store or use the following attributes: Speed, Strength, Mental Speed, Health, Memory, Weight, Age, Senses, Warmth, Wakefulness, Spiritual Connection, Identity, Fortune, Investiture, Nutrition and Calories, and finally Breath.

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections and the link.

 

Fuel: the user must store up these attributes into a metalmind of the correct alloy, then they can use that storage at a later time.

 

Hemalurgy: the parasitic magic that can steal potentially any magic ability from any user given the right alloy of the spike, the knowledge of where to place the spike and I supposed the sadism to even use the magic. It is a "messy" magic.

 

Notable Features: Hemalurgy steals magic from the magic user. The longer the spike is outside of a body, the more magic is lost. It is the only end-negative system in the Cosmere, so far, but it is highly possible that there will be another. When impailed with Hemalurgic spikes, the host of the spike can hear Ruin's or Harmony's intent. Given enough spikes, the host will be unable to act on their own as the intent becomes much more powerful and can overcome the free will of the subject. It's "an oddity in the cosmere".

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link.

 

Fuel: the magic kills the Magic user and steals his power and is placed into the new host. So the fuel is either the blood, the life, or both of the host.

 

 

 

 

The Way of Kings: Book one of the Stormlight Archive:  

 

Surgebindingthe magic of using Surges. There are various effects of this magic and the user can use only two, based on the Ten Essences The Ten Surges, as shown in the Knight's Radiant Table (Currently [though subject to change]: Surface Tension, Transportation, Transformation, Light, Grown, Friction, Division, Pressure, and Gravity). Users can affect Gravity, Heal, Lightweave, Soulcast without Fabrials, and can do many other things yet unknown.

- Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections.

 

Notable Features: All of these Magic use Stormlight and are only usable to the Knights Radiant. This magic system has not been fully explored and much of the details are unknown at this point. However there seems to be a connection between using the power, and having an Honor Spren. Though it is worth note that not all "Bond Spren" are "Honor Spren".

-Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the Corrections.

 

Fuel: Stormlight, some magic left behind in the wake of a High Storm that is stored in Gems.

 

Old Magic: Little is known about the Old Magic. We do know that they are some how tied to the Nightwatcher

 

Voidbinding: Again, little is known about Void Binding and I will be sure to add in the information when it becomes available.

 

ShardbladesThough more is known about Shardblades than the previous two magic Systems, there is still a great deal of mystery shrouding the blades. From what we do know, the blades were wielded by the Knights Radiant, but were abandoned on the Day of Recreance. They do not cut living flesh, but the soul it self. I could fully describe them, but it would be better to read the Wiki Article as the information there is fantastic. 

 

 

 

 

Warbreaker

 

 

BioChroma: is an interesting type of magic that requires the uses of Breath. Having different amounts of Breath can passively increase the wielder's ability to detect perfect hues of colors, gain perfect pitch, sense the Breath of others, Awaken without words, Agelessness, and Distort Colors among many other things. These various stages of Breath are referred to as Heightenings Every person on Nalthis is born with a single Breath given by the Shard Endowment. They can sell or give away their Breath to anyone else. People can then use these Breaths to perform a magic called Awakening, whereby they temporarily store their breath into an inanimate object and give it a command to obey. 

 

Notable Features: Awakening works best when the object is "human shaped" and organic. The closer the semblance to a human, the less Breaths are required to Awaken the object. Though, theoretically, nothing is impossible to Awaken, given the expertise and enough breaths to perform the awakening. 

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections.

 

Fuel: Breath (kinda). As the Breaths are not consumed in the process of Awakening, rather they are borrowed and then later returned. Some, however, believe that the fuel for Awakening is color. However it is worth noting that if this were the case, it would only be the initial fuel for the awakening as the magic does not rely on the constant draining of color to continue. At the Highest known heightenings, it is possible to use more color for awakening.

-Thanks to Kurkistan and Robot Aztec for the corrections.

 

I should note that the next three items on this list are simply an extension of BioChroma and not necessarily a new magic system unto their own.

 

Returned: When a person dies a particularly virtuous way, they can be returned to life with a single, powerful BioChromatic Breath. In order to sustain themselves, they consume one Breath per week. They are the utmost Ideal of physical form. The men are tall and muscled, well formed, and the women are the embodiment of beauty. They can give up their one Breath to cure anyone of anything. The God King is a different type of returned but nevertheless, still a returned of a sort.

A bit more detail can be had here, such as how the beauty standards of returned are shaped by "cognitive ideals or concepts which have taken on literal personification over time."

-Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections.

 

Lifeless: these are not returned, they are simply a corpse that has been awakened to follow it's master's bidding.

But still notable because they are "90% of a sentient being" and capable of being given and following multiple commands over a period of time, as opposed to regular objects only getting a single simple Command that can't be "re-written" later.

- Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections.

 

Nightblood: Nightblood is a sword that has been Awakened with BioChromatic Breath. It wants to "destroy evil" though, because it is a sword, does not understand exactly what evil is. Feel free to read the Wiki to understand the various facts about Nightblood.

 

 

 

 

Ok, now we will explore the connections between the various Magic Systems:

 

 

Let's start by grouping the Magic systems by how they are inherited or obtained.

 

Magics obtained through inheritance (genetics, locations):

 

Allomancy, Feruchemy, BioChroma (kind of) Aon Dor (though, I suspect with these two that the location only matters because Devotion is shattered), ChayShan

 

Magics obtained though endowment (picked randomly or otherwise to ascend to power):

 

Aon Dor through the Shaod, BioChroma via the Returned, Surgebinding, and Voidbinding (presumably)

 

Magics obtained through taking someone's life force: 

 

Hemalurgy, Dakhor, and BioChroma (again! but this time by taking someone's Breath and/or absorbing color of nearby objects with the possibility of taking it from human flesh... looking at you Nightblood.)

 

 

As you can see, there aren't a terrible lot of differences in the means of obtaining the powers. So let's take a second to explore some of the similarities.

 

In Aon Dor, when one is taken by the Shaod, there is a visable change in their coloring. They get white hair and silver skin. We presume the one gets taken by the Shaod for having considerable Devotion to something. 

 

In BioChroma, the Returned come with just one Breath, like normal, except that this Breath is so powerful that colors seems to glow much brighter and more pure in their presence. Similarly to Aon Dor, the Returned are chosen to come back based on some Virtue that they possessed. 

 

In Surgebinding, the user glows when he holds in Stormlight, while there isn't a large difference in appearance (other than the the eye color changing to become a "Lighteyes") a Surgebinder is picked to become such when they display incredible acts of Honor Virtue.

- Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the correction and the link.

 

My guess is that Voidbinding would be doable if one exhibited supreme hatred, thought this is speculation.

 

Otherwise powers are obtained via location, heritage or simply by stealing someone else's power. We will get into that in a bit.

 

 

 

 

Now let's take a look at the various storage of Fuels and their similarities. 

 

The majority stores their powers in Gems, Metals, and Bones. Though the powers vary on effects and uses, the method of storing excess power is similar.

 

Allomancy: Metals

 

Feruchemy: Attributes stored in Metals

 

Hemalurgy: Power stolen; stored in Metals

 

Surgebinding: Stormlight stored in gemstones

 

Soulcasting with a Fabrial: the fuel is probably Stormlight stored in gemstones, but I imagine the cost is offset the Spren.

 

Dakhor: The fuel is a human life, it is stored in human bones.

 

Aon Dor: The Dor, a pervasive magic on the World of Sel. It acts differently as it isn't really stored so much as it is released. Probably similar to the Well of Ascension. 

 

BioChroma: Breath, kind of. In this regard, BioChroma acts differently. There really isn't a "fuel" for their power and it can technically be stored in anything. It even acts conversely against the other metals (IE storing Breath in Metal or rock is actually quite hard, its much easier to store it in something that was once living, similarly to Dakhor.) I believe that the fuel for the power of BioChroma is offset by Endowment, not unlike the Dor. 

 

It has been noted that the particular storage of fuel, be it in metal, gems or bones, could be irrelevant, and it could simply be a different method for a different world. However, given that the Shards created those worlds (and presumably the method of storing their power) it could have some relevance. 

- Thanks Kurkistan for the commentary.

 

 

Alright let's evaluate the various Investitures that the Shards give to their Creations:

 

Ok this is a bit harder to explain, this group evaluates the similar ways that the Shards invested themselves into a planet. For Example, the Seons and the Spren are the direct result of the Shards reducing their power (Seons, it seems were actually a result of the shattering of Aona [Devotion], and logic dictates that Spren could be similarly created. Though the origin of Spren seems to be a rather large debate with too few facts to say for certain) Seons and Spren are a particular life that exudes the influence of the Shard, presumably, and retains some of their power. Just to clarify, some examples of this power are the Seon's ability to communicate like a telephone and the Spren's ability to change size, shape and form. Furthermore, on Scadrial, humanity is, in part, different than everywhere else because they have a bit more Preservation inside of them. Then on Nalthis, Endowment has endowed (wow shocker) humanity with breath but even more powerfully, Endowment gives a very powerful Breath to the Returned to bring them back to life. We don't have a ton of information on the investiture of the Shards into the races in Way of Kings but we do have the Aimians who can change the form of their bodies not unlike the Spren that exist on that planet. I can't imagine that Shinovar doesn't have a large touch from Cultivation, but that's speculation.

 

The point is, that the Shards have all invested themselves into their creations. We know from Preservation that this weakens them. This may be the way that Odium can be stronger than the other Shards as we can only really attribute the Voidbringers to his power, definitely not a full planet filled with life. 

- Thanks to Kurkistan, WeiryWriter, and Shardlet for the input and links. 

 

 

These Magics Grant Sentience:

 

In Way of Kings, Syl slowly gained her sentience as her bond with Kaladin grew stronger.

 

In Warbreaker, Nightblood gained his sentience through the vast amount of Breaths he received when he was Awakened. It would also be interesting to note, that while humans can Awaken, Endowment can Awaken granting full sentience rather than partial robotic following of a single imperative 90% sentience. 

- Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections.

 

In the Mistborn books, the Koloss and the Kandra both received their sentience when Hemalurgy was used on them.

 

In Elantris, the Seons received their sentience from the Aon that glowed at their core. It would seem I am mistaken about the sentience of the Seons. It actually comes because they are Splinters of Aona (Devotion) IE the Dor's power was channeled in a way that gave them cognizance.  

- Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link.

 

 

While BioChroma remains King on investing mundane Items with Magic, it most certainly isn't alone:

 

In Elantris, Aon Dor, by simply drawing an Aon on something, you turned something mundane into something magical. Need a light? Draw Aon Ashe on the wall. Want a Flamethrower or a Torch? Draw Aon Ehe on an object. Et Cetera. 

 

In Warbreaker, the Awakener could simply Awaken an object with a set of instructions for the Awakened item to obey. It temporarily took breath, but the item would do as commanded. You could also do this to a corpse and create a lifeless servant to follow and obey you. Do take note that a dead body acts very differently than a live one. This rule is the same with shardblades.

 

In Mistborn, while you couldn't make items universally magical to all who held them, Feruchemy stored their magic in the metals, Hemalurgy stored the magic in the metals and an Allomancer could burn metals to produce magic. This becomes important to note. Most of us understand the mechanic of burning Feruchemical metals (metalminds) as an allomancer. The Feruchemy turned the Metal into something... greater than simple metal. I'd wager that there would be similarly fantastic effects to burning hemalurgic metals (Mistborn 2nd Trilogy mayhaps?). So while the metal would appear to be magical, it most certainly changes the properties of the metals in some fundamental ways. This begs the question if the metal's atomic compisition changes measurably and if the futuristic metals could be engineered to be "full" artificially for Feruchemists. IE, could they store a book into a coppermind that any Feruchemist could pick up and "read" anyway, sorry for the tangent =P. Also note that you can't affect metals in someone else's body.

There is discussion over whether Investing a metal with Feruchemy or Hemalurgy actually changes its Physical properties or its Spiritual. I'd wager the latter myself, especially since we know that Hemalurgic spikes steal soul-stuff directly, and become (paraphrase) "part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm".

- Thanks to Kurkistan for the input.

 

in Way of Kings, when stormlight fills a gem, it glows. When a Surgebinder lashes an object, it glows and sticks to whatever the Surgebinder wanted it to. The Shardblades and Shardplate are most certainly magical as well. They act differently in the hands of a dead man, and against dead bodies. Meaning that a dead man's Shardblade will not vanish if he drops it.

 

 

 

Ok, so they're similar... So what?

 

I think Brandon Sanderson means to write several books in which we can see the interactions of our favorite heros or at the very minimum a few books in which we'll see the way these magic systems interact. They are made to be used together. Adonalsium shattered and created the Shards which made the magics. This means that essentially these magic systems were all one at some point.

 

However, there is a distinct possibility that these systems were not created to work together in some fashion, Kurkistan aptly points out this in the following quote. 

ll the magic systems work within the same fundamental Realmatic framework, true, and so share basic similarities as well as lawlike ways of interacting within that framework, but that doesn't necessitate that they be "intended" to work together on some higher level. That's like saying that physics working the same for water and for magnets means that they were both "made" to create hydroelectric dams, and that water and magnets were one at some point.

 

 

I would like to add a section in here concerning the ideas about the Spren and Seons that I have seen reflected in the comments below. Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

Surgebinding
 
The sprens, in a rough way, are atracked by certain virtues and when they find someone that REALLY live they lives by this virtues they make a bond (nahel bond) with this person, that ultimately give that person a specific set of surgebind powers(cognitive ideas of forces like gravity and transformation).
 

In a cosmere aproach I would think that when the spren bond with a person they turn in a kind of escape valve/hack of the cognitive realm.
 
The spren make possible to a person have acess to certain forces(surges)(cognitive ideas of forces) in a similar way that a Elantrian have acess to the "cognitive ideas" in their world when they draw Aon to create a certain effect.

- Natan

 

Probably. We don't know for sure, though. Also, you're off by a Realm: it's a Spiritual bond and, if the surges really are based on something more "ideal" than "magic stuff happens", I would think that they are likely Spiritual as well.
-We know that seon bonds are spiritual, and spren bond in the same way.

- Kurkistan

 

Think in this way, a spren is like a len("focus") that when a person cast a light("investidude"-stormlight) create a specific spectrum of light (effect-surge-(cognitive ideas of forces). The "intent" is the desire of the user to use his power.

- Natans

 

 

So this is the fun part of the post! I want to hear some of your ideas and input as well!  What happens when the two magic systems meet?

 

 

 

What happens if you burn an awakened metal? 

Weird things. Burning a "powerfully invested object" (which Nightblood qualifies as) "would be very, very dangerous to try." -Kurkistan

Could a Feruchemist access or store attributes in Awakened metal? In a Stormlight Gemstone?

As to the first: maybe. Nightblood and shardblades could be said to be "full" of Investiture and thus not capable of taking any more in, but there might be a way to Awaken metal less "powerfully". -Kurkistan

Could a Sel version of Nightblood or Shardblade be made by Forging, Writing an Aon on the blade, or using a Dakhor Bone Blade?

 

Would Lightweaving be more powerful with Aon Ashe present? 

 

Does a Hemalurgic Spike steal all the victim's Breath? 

Probably not by default, though it could if you tried for it. Hemalurgy can steal "anything encoded on a person's soul", and we know that Breath is part of your soul, so... -Kurkistan

Does a Hemalurgic Spike affect Spren or Seons?

 

How many of Sazed's religions do you think were Realmatically aware? What are the chances that Odium was worshiped on Scadrial?

 

Could a Returned come from another planet? Could they be Returned to another planet? If so, what would happen to a Returned Mistborn? Say, Vin and Elend?

 

Can a combination of the magic systems somehow repair a splintered Shard?

 

 

I wrote this article to be discussed! If anyone has any input, please feel free to share it! I would love to hear it. Critiques are welcome, but as this is a post to discuss and speculate I would appreciate it if you would be polite to your fellow posters!

 

 

TL;DR The magic systems are very similar in a lot of different ways. This could help provide some insight into the Cosmere about how Shards work and perhaps the purpose of Hoid's mission. 

 

Thanks everyone! I look forward to hearing your response! 

 

Please let me know if I missed giving you credit from your comments in the post!!!

Edited by chronotrigger
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The technical difficulties are resolved. It should now be readable.

Edited by chronotrigger
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I don't quite have the time or attention to read the topic as a whole at the moment, but I can answer a few of your questions.

 

What happens if you burn an awakened metal?

 

Weird things. Burning a "powerfully invested object" (which Nightblood qualifies as) "would be very, very dangerous to try."

 

 Could a Feruchemist access or store attributes in Awakened metal? In a Stormlight Gemstone?.

 

As to the first: maybe. Nightblood and shardblades could be said to be "full" of Investiture and thus not capable of taking any more in, but there might be a way to Awaken metal less "powerfully".

 

Does a Hemalurgic Spike steal all the victim's Breath?

 

Probably not by default, though it could if you tried for it. Hemalurgy can steal "anything encoded on a person's soul", and we know that Breath is part of your soul, so...

Edited by Kurkistan
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Moving to cosmere theories, as General Discussion is for non-Brandon works.

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Help me out a little bit - what's the core of your theory? I see a lot of interesting connections between the magic systems (and I believe you will find Forgery and Bloodsealing in the Emperor's Soul fitting some of those models), but I don't see your thesis. Your main point, your hypothesis, or prediction. Perhaps there isn't one - there is nothing wrong with that - but I would like to know whether that's really the case, or I am just missing it.

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I actually didn't intend to draw any real conclusions as I don't believe that we have the full picture. There are several worlds left with magic systems that we haven't seen yet. I just wanted to start building a compendium of all the magic systems in the Cosmere and see what connections we can pull out of them. 

 

Like I said, Adonalsium was one (not) shard until he shattered, then we had 16 different shards that all turned into Gods in their own right. None of them are complete, however, as they can only represent ONE aspect of Adonalsium. That means that all Sanderson's magic systems should be tied together some how and I figured the best way to find the links and possibly Hoid's mission is to establish connections among the different systems in the Cosmere.

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I see - I suspected that might be the case, but wanted to be sure. We know for a fact that all of the Cosmere's magic follows a set of magical laws, akin to our (and its) physical laws. That much is true. Figuring out those laws... you wouldn't be the first one to try to to accomplish this :)

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Didn't think so but I did think it was interesting setting them side by side like that. 

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"I THINK" (ME, MYSELF :P ) that Roshar's magic sytems basically work in this way: 

 

Surgebinding

 

The sprens, in a rough way, are atracked by certain virtues and when they find someone that REALLY live they lives by this virtues they make a bond (nahel bond) with this person, that ultimately give that person a specific set of surgebind powers(cognitive ideas of forces like gravity and transformation).

 

In a cosmere aproach I would think that when the spren bond with a person they turn in a kind of escape valve/hack of the cognitive realm.

 

The spren make possible to a person have acess to certain forces(surges)(cognitive ideas of forces) in a similar way that a Elantrian have acess to the "cognitive ideas" in their world when they draw Aon to create a certain effect.

 

Think in this way, a spren is like a len("focus") that when a person cast a light("investidude"-stormlight) create a specific spectrum of light (effect-surge-(cognitive ideas of forces). The "intent" is the desire of the user to use his power.

 

In Elantris something similar occur, but the difference is that there the raw investidure(energy) is all trapped inside of the cognitive world creating pressure, what make easy to full the "cognitive ideas" with energy "investidure".

 

An aon works like a valve, how when you open,  release "the cognitive idea of a force" defined by the kind o valve used(Aon), in broad way, this is very similar to a surge the difference is that a spren give you acess to a only a few fixed "cognitive ideas of forces" and which person can only "bond" with only a spren so there is a limit what a person can do.

 

A Elantrian can use every aon so in this aspect they have acess do much more "cognitive ideas of forces" to create different effects. 

 

Two very similar magic sytems butwith different aspects=)

 

The fabrials

 

The spren ("focus") is trapped in a gem, and when you give stormlight ("investidure") to it you create a effect defined by the kind of spren you trapped. The "intent" here is the the metal frame in the Fabrial that create a pattern in the light cast by the gem.

 

WoR Spoilers

 

The Parshendi forms

A spreen bond with a parshendi, I think that the parshendis could have some kind of gemheart(physical or cognitive I don't know, and by bonding with a spreen "focus" in a highstorm "investidure" they can change forms by trapping the sprens (cognitive idea) inside them.

PS: Another thing to me is that the highstorm are in reality a BIG HOLE in the physical world thar leaks the investidure present in the cognitive world diretcly in form of energy in Roshar. Together with this hole come the sprens "cognitive being" that are kind of sucked in the physical world.

What made this hole, Honor death. Before him die only a small part of investidure that are used by him and cultivation existed(fewer spren existed), after him the physical and cognitive wolrds lost the equilibrium what created more sprens and the highstorms. Investidure without intent of a person do control.

 
 

 

 

So at least Aon e Surgebinds are very similar.

Edited by Natans
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Okay, have a bit more time. There are some interesting thoughts here and it's cool that you took the time to put all of this stuff about the magic systems together, but I do have a few comments that occurred to me as I read your OP:
 

Dakhor: the magic of enhancing the skeletal system and improving the body's capabilities far beyond what normal peoples should ever be able to accomplish. It does this by somehow by probably accessing the Dominion's gateway to the Dor.
 
Notable Features: only the Dakhor monks in Fjorden have ever been known to have this power. While it doesn't necessarily seem to be based on location, I assume that the knowledge of how to access this power is a heavily guarded secret kept by the Dakhor Monastery. The abilities include teleportation, the ability to enhance the human body by shaping the skeletal structure. The structure of the bones seems to change the varying levels of power in this system.
 
The Fuel: A willing human being must sacrifice himself.

 
Notable powers include the ability to wipe out Aons.
 

The Mistborn Trilogy and The Mistborn Adventures, book one:
 
Allomancy: a magic that consumes metals to various effects. This magic comes from Preservation. 
 
Notable Features: Allomancy is an incredibly fun magic system in which the user can "burn" metals to push or pull on metals, forcibly change someone's emotions, hide themselves, find other Allomancers (and possibly find other uses of magics from other worlds, though this is speculation), strengthen their bodies and senses, affect their own stores (and those of others) of metals by depleting them or using them in a single burst of power, forsee the future and lastly affect time by slowing it down or speeding it up. This type of magic is genetic and becomes deluded after generations.
 
Fuel: the metals burned when drawing on the power.

 
Be sure to note that the "fuel" is always actually Preservation, with the metals just serving as a key to access it and not possessing any power in and of themselves.
 

Feruchemy: the magic of Harmony. It relies on storing up an attribute into metals for later use. The use of this magic can be used to multiply the attributes several fold, but doing so drains the user quickly.
 
Notable Features: Feruchemy is an end neutral magic system. I believe it is the only one to do so, so far. If the user can store up enough of an attribute, s/he can expend it very powerfully for a short time, until an equilibrium has been reached. The user can store or use the following attributes: Speed, Strength, Mental Speed, Health, Memory, Weight, Age, Senses, Warmth, Wakefulness, Spiritual Connection, Identity, Fortune, Investiture, Nutrition and Calories, and finally Breath.
 
Fuel: the user must store up these attributes into a metalmind of the correct alloy, then they can use that storage at a later time.

 
BioChroma might be end-neutral, also. Worth keeping in mind. There are almost certainly more end-neutral magics than just Feruchemy.
 

Hemalurgy: the parasitic magic that can steal potentially any magic ability from any user given the right alloy of the spike, the knowledge of where to place the spike and I supposed the sadism to even use the magic. It is a "messy" magic.
 
Notable Features: Hemalurgy steals magic from the magic user. The longer the spike is outside of a body, the more magic is lost. It is the only end-negative system in the Cosmere. When impailed with Hemalurgic spikes, the host of the spike can hear Ruin's or Harmony's intent. Given enough spikes, the host will be unable to act on their own as the intent becomes much more powerful and can overcome the free will of the subject.
 
Fuel: the magic kills the Magic user and steals his power and is placed into the new host. So the fuel is either the blood, the life, or both of the host.

 
Neither is the fuel, actually. It's the soul (though I guess you could file that under "life").
 
Also, hemalurgy might not be the only end-negative system. Maybe. It's "an oddity in the cosmere", but for all we know it has one other odd friend it hands out with.
 

The Way of Kings: Book one of the Stormlight Archive:  
 
Surgebindingthe magic of using Surges. There are various effects of this magic and the user can use only two, based on the Ten Essences. Users can affect Gravity, Heal, Lightweave, Soulcast without Fabrials, and can do many other things yet unknown.

 
Not the ten Essenses, the ten Surges (Currently (though subject to change): Surface Tension, Transportation, Transformation, Light, Grown, Friction, Division, Pressure, and Gravity).
 

Notable Features: All of these Magic use Stormlight and are only usable to the Knights Radiant. This magic system has not been fully explored and much of the details are unknown at this point. However there seems to be a connection between using the power, and having an Honor Spren.

 
We don't know about the KR having exclusive access. Note the existence of surgebinders before their formation. Also, we aren't sure that all "bond spren" are Honor spren.
 

Notable Features: Awakening works best when the object is "human shaped". The closer the semblance to a human, the less Breaths are required to Awaken the object. Though, theoretically, nothing is impossible to Awaken, given the expertise and enough breaths to perform the awakening.

 
"Human shaped" and organic are the name of the game, as a statue or something is nigh impossible to awaken.
 

Fuel: Breath (kinda). As the Breaths are not consumed in the process of Awakening, rather they are borrowed and then later returned.

 
Some (who I vehemently disagree with) identify color as the fuel for Awakening. I myself think that Breath is self-replenishing, and so does provide the "fuel" for Awakening, but from its "interest" rather than the "capital" of the main Breath.
 

I should note that the next three items on this list are simply an extension of BioChroma and not necessarily a new magic system unto their own.
 
Returned: When a person dies a particularly virtuous way, they can be returned to life with a single, powerful BioChromatic Breath. In order to sustain themselves, they consume one Breath per week. They are the utmost Ideal of physical form. The men are tall and muscled, well formed, and the women are the embodiment of beauty. They can give up their one Breath to cure anyone of anything. The God King is a different type of returned but nevertheless, still a returned of a sort.

 
A bit more detail can be had here, such as how the beauty standards of returned are shaped by "cognitive ideals or concepts which have taken on literal personification over time."
 

Lifeless: these are not returned, they are simply a corpse that has been awakened to follow it's master's bidding.

 
But still notable because they are "90% of a sentient being" and capable of being given and following multiple commands over a period of time, as opposed to regular objects only getting a single simple Command that can't be "re-written" later.
 

In Surgebinding, the user glows when he holds in Stormlight, while there isn't a large difference in appearance (other than the possibility of glowing eyes) a Surgebinder is picked to become such when they display incredible acts of Honor.

 
Eye color also changes (to be "Lighteyed"), and once again assuming Honor for all Surgebinders is a stretch. We do know that getting magic on Roshar depends on the user's actions, though.
 

Now let's take a look at the various storage of Fuels and their similarities. 
 
The majority stores their powers in Gems, Metals, and Bones. Though the powers vary on effects and uses, the method of storing excess power is similar.
 
Allomancy: Metals
 
Feruchemy: Attributes stored in Metals
 
Hemalurgy: Power stolen; stored in Metals
 
Surgebinding: Stormlight stored in gemstones
 
Soulcasting with a Fabrial: the fuel is probably Stormlight stored in gemstones, but I imagine the cost is offset the Spren.
 
Dakhor: The fuel is a human life, it is stored in human bones.
 
Aon Dor: The Dor, a pervasive magic on the World of Sel. It acts differently as it isn't really stored so much as it is released. Probably similar to the Well of Ascension. 
 
BioChroma: Breath, kind of. In this regard, BioChroma acts differently. There really isn't a "fuel" for their power and it can technically be stored in anything. It even acts conversely against the other metals (IE storing Breath in Metal or rock is actually quite hard, its much easier to store it in something that was once living, similarly to Dakhor.) I believe that the fuel for the power of BioChroma is offset by Endowment, not unlike the Dor.

 
You might not to put much stock into this. There's been a large amount of speculation that the different planets determine what "foci" are used: so it may be the case that Preservation and Ruin might have ended up having their magics use gemstones if they landed on Roshar, for example.
 

Alright let's evaluate the various Investitures that the Shards give to their Creations:
 
Ok this is a bit harder to explain, this group evaluates the similar ways that the Shards invested themselves into a planet. For Example, the Seons and the Spren are the direct result of the Shards reducing their power to create a very particular life that exudes their touch and retains some of their power. Furthermore, on Scadrial, humanity is, in part, different than everywhere else because they have a bit more Preservation inside of them. Then on Nalthis, Endowment has endowed (wow shocker) humanity with breath but even more powerfully, Endowment gives a very powerful Breath to the Returned to bring them back to life. We don't have a ton of information on the investiture of the Shards into the races in Way of Kings but we do have the Aimians who can change the form of their bodies not unlike the Spren that exist on that planet. I can't imagine that Shinovar doesn't have a large touch from Cultivation, but that's speculation.
 
The point is, that the Shards have all invested themselves into their creations. We know from Preservation that this weakens them. This may be the way that Odium can be stronger than the other Shards as we can only really attribute the Voidbringers to his power, definitely not a full planet filled with life.

 
Fair enough. Note that at least some spren were a result of Adonalsium's shattering, so were not created on purpose. Seons also only came about after Aona's death, I beleive.
 

These Magics Grant Sentience:
 
In Way of Kings, Syl slowly gained her sentience as her bond with Kaladin grew stronger.
 
In Warbreaker, Nightblood gained his sentience through the vast amount of Breaths he received when he was Awakened. It would also be interesting to note, that while humans can Awaken, Endowment can Awaken granting full sentience rather than partial robotic following of a single imperative.

 
I recall you to discussions of Lifeless sentience.
 

In Elantris, the Seons received their sentience from the Aon that glowed at their core. IE the Dor's power was channeled in a way that gave them cognizance.

 
Note quite. Those Aons are actually Splinters, so they don't necessarily need to access the Dor.
 

While BioChroma remains King on investing mundane Items with Magic, it most certainly isn't alone:
 
In Elantris, Aon Dor, by simply drawing an Aon on something, you turned something mundane into something magical. Need a light? Draw Aon Ashe on the wall. Want a Flamethrower or a Torch? Draw Aon Ehe on an object. Et Cetera.

 
Are you sure? I haven't read Elantris in a while, but I seem to recall that Aons drawn on surfaces were merely inhabiting those surfaces, rather than transforming them. Feel free to smack me down if I'm wrong, though.
 

In Mistborn, while you couldn't make items universally magical to all who held them, Feruchemy stored their magic in the metals, Hemalurgy stored the magic in the metals and an Allomancer could burn metals to produce magic. This becomes important to note. Most of us understand the mechanic of burning Feruchemical metals (metalminds) as an allomancer. The Feruchemy turned the Metal into something... greater than simple metal. I'd wager that there would be similarly fantastic effects to burning hemalurgic metals (Mistborn 2nd Trilogy mayhaps?). So while the metal would appear to be magical, it most certainly changes the properties of the metals in some fundamental ways. This begs the question if the metal's atomic compisition changes measurably and if the futuristic metals could be engineered to be "full" artificially for Feruchemists. IE, could they store a book into a coppermind that any Feruchemist could pick up and "read" anyway, sorry for the tangent =P. Also note that you can't affect metals in someone else's body.

 
There is discussion over whether Investing a metal with Feruchemy or Hemalurgy actually changes its Physical properties or its Spiritual. I'd wager the latter myself, especially since we know that Hemalurgic spikes steal soul-stuff directly, and become (paraphrase) "part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm".
 

Ok, so they're similar... So what?
 
I think Brandon Sanderson means to write several books in which we can see the interactions of our favorite heros or at the very minimum a few books in which we'll see the way these magic systems interact. They are made to be used together. Adonalsium shattered and created the Shards which made the magics. This means that essentially these magic systems were all one at some point.

 
I do not agree. All the magic systems work within the same fundamental Realmatic framework, true, and so share basic similarities as well as lawlike ways of interacting within that framework, but that doesn't necessitate that they be "intended" to work together on some higher level. That's like saying that physics working the same for water and for magnets means that they were both "made" to create hydroelectric dams, and that water and magnets were one at some point.
 
-------

 

Roshar the magic sytems basically work in this way:

 
No, I don't think it does. The following is mostly speculation, so it's best to present it as such going forward.
 

Surgebinding
 
The sprens, in a rough way, are atracked by certain virtues and when they find someone that REALLY live they lives by this virtues they make a bond (nahel bond) with this person, that ultimately give that person a specific set of surgebind powers(cognitive ideas of forces like gravity and transformation).
 

In a cosmere aproach I would think that when the spren bond with a person they turn in a kind of escape valve/hack of the cognitive realm.
 
The spren make possible to a person have acess to certain forces(surges)(cognitive ideas of forces) in a similar way that a Elantrian have acess to the "cognitive ideas" in their world when they draw Aon to create a certain effect.

 
Probably. We don't know for sure, though. Also, you're off by a Realm: it's a Spiritual bond and, if the surges really are based on something more "ideal" than "magic stuff happens", I would think that they are likely Spiritual as well.
-We know that seon bonds are spiritual, and spren bond in the same way.
 

Think in this way, a spren is like a len("focus") that when a person cast a light("investidude"-stormlight) create a specific spectrum of light (effect-surge-(cognitive ideas of forces). The "intent" is the desire of the user to use his power.

 
Your evidence, please?
 

In Elantris something similar occur, but the difference is that there the raw investidure(energy) is all trapped inside of the cognitive world creating pressure, what make easy to full the "cognitive ideas" with energy "investidure".
 
An aon works like a valve, how when you open,  release "the cognitive idea of a force" defined by the kind o valve used(Aon), in broad way, this is very similar to a surge the difference is that a spren give you acess to a only a few fixed "cognitive ideas of forces" and which person can only "bond" with only a spren so there is a limit what a person can do.
 
A Elantrian can use every aon so in this aspect they have acess do much more "cognitive ideas of forces" to create different effects. 
 
Two very similar magic sytems butwith different aspects=)

 
Are you so sure the Dor is Cognitive? We know that loose Shardic power makes the Cognitive Realm dangerous, but that doesn't mean that it is properly of that Realm or residing their. Most discussion of Investiture credits it as Spiritual: why the change?
-For all I know we might be wrong, but there is at the very least a body of belief that Investiture is Spiritual, so what persuaded you to go against it?

Edited by Kurkistan
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Fair enough. Note that at least some spren were a result of Adonalsium's shattering, so were not created on purpose. Seons also only came about after Aona's death, I beleive.

 

I just wanted to respond to this bit.  Brandon did not say that the Adonalsium-invested spren were a result of the Shattering, just that there were splinters of Adonalsium invested in Roshar that developed sentience in the form of spren.  It's possible that they were there as a result of the Shattering but we cannot definitively say they were created accidentally because we know nothing of the circumstances of their creation beyond that they were created.

 

And you are correct, Seons date from after the splintering of Devotion/death of Aona.

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Right you are. I apologize for my mistake and thank you for pointing it out.

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Right you are. I apologize for my mistake and thank you for pointing it out.

 

Not a problem, it was an honest mistake.  Any mention of Adonalsium is likely to throw the best of us into super-excited-mode.

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/>Some (who I vehemently disagree with) identify color as the fuel for Awakening. I myself think that Breath is self-replenishing, and so does provide the "fuel" for Awakening, but from its "interest" rather than the "capital" of the main Breath.

 

It says it in the book when he makes the lifeless squirrel the colors ''fuel'' the transform and it in the magic thing in the back it says the 10th heitnening lets you draw mor colors for fuel and in annotations they say the god king wears black under his robes so he can use it as feul. That is three times it says they are fuel so you shouldnt disagree with vasher and the guy who wrote the magic system thing in the back because they are amart guys.

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Yes, color "fuels" the initial Command. But it isn't needed for the next infinity as the Breath keeps animating objects and doing significant work, suggesting that the power source for vast majority if the things done by Awakened items is actually the Breath, not the color. As I've discussed in the past.

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Wow, glad to see that this article is getting some discussion. Kurkistan, thank you very much for your detailed analysis, I, unfortunately, have to step out of the house for an hour or so, but when I get back I will definitely update the information on my post to reflect your arguments as well.

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What I was trying to say is that I THINK that work in that way. Sorry for the confusion =)  

 

"People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense."

Edited by Natans
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I just wanted to respond to this bit.  Brandon did not say that the Adonalsium-invested spren were a result of the Shattering, just that there were splinters of Adonalsium invested in Roshar that developed sentience in the form of spren.  It's possible that they were there as a result of the Shattering but we cannot definitively say they were created accidentally because we know nothing of the circumstances of their creation beyond that they were created.

 

Actually, Brandon said that the Adonalsium splinter spren that are on Roshar formed from power that Adonalsium "left" there which attained self-awareness.  I think that wording pretty definitely excludes the possibility of them resulting from the shattering.

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What I was trying to say is that I THINK that work in that way. Sorry for the confusion =)  

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

 

"People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense."

 

Yes? And?

 

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty of the debate over whether the metal is physically changed by Investing it, here you go.

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Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

Yes? And?

 

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty of the debate over whether the metal is physically changed by Investing it, here you go.

 

 

I tried, my broswer deleted 5 times my post and I give up =)

 

Gonna think a little more about this one =)

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First, nice job putting this together.

 

The Way of Kings: Book one of the Stormlight Archive:  

 

Notable Features: All of these Magic use Stormlight and are only usable to the Knights Radiant. This magic system has not been fully explored and much of the details are unknown at this point. However there seems to be a connection between using the power, and having an Honor Spren.

 

Ok, now we will explore the connections between the various Magic Systems:

 

In Surgebinding, the user glows when he holds in Stormlight, while there isn't a large difference in appearance (other than the possibility of glowing eyes) a Surgebinder is picked to become such when they display incredible acts of Honor.

 

in Way of Kings, when stormlight fills a gem, it glows. When a Surgebinder lashes an object, it glows and sticks to whatever the Surgebinder wanted it to. The Shardblades and Shardplate are most certainly magical as well. They act differently in the hands of a dead man, and against dead bodies.

Now I'm going to nit pick.

 

None of the magic used in AWoKs was accessed by a Knight Radiant except in Dalinars visions. It was accessed by Surgebinders. A Surgebinder in not a Knight Radiant.

 

We don't know why people become invested in Roshar exactly. We know it is through their actions, but we don't know it is only through honorable actions that people are chosen.

 

When did we see a dead man holding a Shardblade exactly?

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In Elantris something similar occur, but the difference is that there the raw investidure(energy) is all trapped inside of the cognitive world creating pressure, what make easy to full the "cognitive ideas" with energy "investidure".

 

An aon works like a valve, how when you open,  release "the cognitive idea of a force" defined by the kind o valve used(Aon), in broad way, this is very similar to a surge the difference is that a spren give you acess to a only a few fixed "cognitive ideas of forces" and which person can only "bond" with only a spren so there is a limit what a person can do.

 

A Elantrian can use every aon so in this aspect they have acess do much more "cognitive ideas of forces" to create different effects. 

 

Two very similar magic sytems butwith different aspects=)

-Natans

 

 

I have a great post I read about the relationship between the Cognitive, Spritual, and Physical Realms. I am more inclined myself to believe that the Dor is Spiritual as the Cognitive determines intent (from my understanding), the Spiritual determines the power (see Preservation in Allomancy, Endowment in BioChroma, etc) and Physical is the action that has been acted out. I might be off base, but this is my understanding as it is.

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I have updated the post to reflect the opinions and arguments of those in the comments! I would like to thank everyone for sharing their opinions and links in the comments! It is very helpful in compiling all the information together.

 

Now I'm going to nit pick. -Gloom

 

By all means! That is the purpose of this post!

 

Edited for horrendous Adonalsium shattering typos.

Edited by chronotrigger
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When did we see a dead man holding a Shardblade exactly?- Gloom

 

I believe we saw it with the Shardbearer that Kaladin killed. Though he might have just dropped it and it didn't disappear... I can't remember exactly.

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