Link Von Kelsier Harvey Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 So, this new annotation came out today. Let's briefly discuss what we learned. 1) We now have a second example of someone who Returned for a specific purpose. This might give us insight into how Endowment's powers work. 2) We have learned that Returned often regain their memories when confronted directly with the reason for their return. 3) We have learned that Yesteel knows how to create sentient weaponry, and is not above giving this information away. 4) We learn that Lifeless have enough cognitive power and sense of self to potentially be view-point characters, and that keeping them in the dark is not a good thing. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayde Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm most interested in a Lifeless viewpoint character. Although I have a feeling it's going to be much like reading the viewpoint of some animal like a dog. Mostly instinctive feelings and actions. And the thoughts of an entire army with swords like Nightblood is a very chilling thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Like they would even be able to make that many Nightbloods. The amount of breath they would need to make them, let alone power them is at least greater than the God King's treasure several times over. Still scary though. *brr* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leinton Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Brandon seemed to imply that Yesteel could have made that many. Do we actually know how many Breaths it took to make Nightblood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I think it said in one of the annotations that you needed to be of the seventh or eighth hieghtening and you needed 1000 breaths. I'm not positive though. its been awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm pretty sure 1000 breaths for Nightblood is accurate, but perhaps Yesteel has come up with a way to do it more efficiently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Well, let's say that the capital of a country has about 30,000 people. That's enough to power at least 10 Nightbloods. That could end... poorly. Plus, if it is "Destroy Hallandren" or "Destroy Returned", Hallandren could be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuaiir Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm approaching this from a different angle: what Command would make something similar to Nightblood - a sentient object - not be quite so... destructive, and what object would you put it in? After all, I don't think Vasher, Nightblood, or what little we see of Shashara ever said that a sentient object had to be a weapon. they just did that because it made the most sense. "A sword that destroys evil? What could go wrong?" Personally I'd go with a shield with the Command 'protect innocence.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Innocence has the same issue as evil, too abstract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 But then "protect innocence" could easily become "imprison everyone." After all, the best way to make sure that people don't get hurt is to make sure they never have the chance to get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuaiir Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 The thought of this has been running circles in my head for ages. I'm aware that it would have the same issues, but I haven't been able to come up with anything better. The real problem is that to create a sentient object with a true, immutable, specific purpose, it would have to be "do some thing concrete to something concrete." Since sentient objects last forever (I'm assuming) and nearly nothing else does, what would you have such a being do? heck, now my brain's just cranking out nonsense, like a sentient water can whose command is "water plants." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ending up in the Broom Paradox Mickey Mouse ran into in Fantasia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 haha, a fine example of why you should be careful, even with ordinary Awakened objects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuaiir Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 the limitation there being that a sentient object can only fulfill its purpose while being powered by Breath. to stop the Broom Paradox, all you'd need to do it focus on the thought "everything is clean" and put down the broom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 But that only works if you have enough mental will. Otherwise you get Nightblood when Vasher draws him completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuaiir Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) I would think that the mental will to resist the urge to clean would be very different from the will to destroy evil, and easier for a normal person to come up with. Note that even when Nightblood was sheathed, it tempted people to destroy, but it couldn't tempt those with pure hearts (see the chapter when Vasher breaks in to the tunnels under the Court of the Returned {terminology check}). In other words, it could not tempt those who had no urge to destroy. Edit: the point I'm trying to make here is that if you have no urge to clean, the brooms can't tempt you to clean. so sentient mundane objects could be fairly benign. also, if i'm remembering right (I'll check my facts shortly), Vasher had to draw Nightblood a little bit in order for him to tempt anyone. if he was fully sheathed, he couldn't do anything but talk mind-to-mind. which brings on the completely different question of what is that sheath made out of, that it can block that much of Nightblood's purpose? Edited March 22, 2011 by cuaiir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Very good point about the sheath and one I was going to make. If something as powerful as Nightblood, which can drive men to kill, and be stopped (for the most part) by being fully sheathed, is the sheath a separate Awakened object, part of the same object somehow, or a different magic entirely? Also, as for a Lifeless viewpoint character, I think it would be very similar to the monster, Hunger, made of earth in Servant of a Dark God by John Brown. It was sentient, but didn't really have memories or feelings, only a hunger for souls. It acted very much on instincts and didn't have much humanity. I won't go into further detail for fear of spoiling a book which we aren't even discussing. Just my thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that the sheath is made of human flesh and stops nightblood the same way a body stops metal being affected by allomancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Hm, a wild guess indeed. I won't discount it yet, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm approaching this from a different angle: what Command would make something similar to Nightblood - a sentient object - not be quite so... destructive, and what object would you put it in? What I would put it in might depend on what I want it to do. I don't think we can assume that all sentient weapons would be as destructive as Nightblood. According to the annotations, such creations imprint heavily with their first experiences of the world. If Nightblood had a different set of early experiences, it might not have ended up so destructive. Wording also might help. Would 'fight evil' be less aggressive than 'destroy evil?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that the sheath is made of human flesh and stops nightblood the same way a body stops metal being affected by allomancy My guess is that this would work if it was living flesh, since it would probably be either a Spiritual or Cognitive effect that offers that protection. And if it's possible on this world to make a living sheath, well, we'd be dealing with an entirely new system of magic. What I would put it in might depend on what I want it to do. I don't think we can assume that all sentient weapons would be as destructive as Nightblood. According to the annotations, such creations imprint heavily with their first experiences of the world. If Nightblood had a different set of early experiences, it might not have ended up so destructive. Wording also might help. Would 'fight evil' be less aggressive than 'destroy evil?' It would need a continuous source of evil to fight, then again, you could say the same of destroying evil too, so it's tough to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 This is a bit of a rant, but why would you only make weapons from this kind of awakening? OK, OK, human knowledge always seems to be used for weapons first, better technology and life second. So historically, that's the most likely use. I guess I'm just speculating about where it would go once people decided that they needed or wanted to use that kind of awakening for something else? What if the command used was "Do my taxes every year?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellKnight Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I guess I'm just speculating about where it would go once people decided that they needed or wanted to use that kind of awakening for something else? What if the command used was "Do my taxes every year?" Other than the fact that you would need to imagine perfectly the process needed to do the taxes? Heck, it's challenging with a guide for each line. Fell, sword-lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayde Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 This discussion makes me think of the brooms in Fantasia's Sorcerer's Apprentice segment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hey! I had the exact same thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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