Seattle signing report out 10/14/13

[Stormfather]

well the surface tension aspect of Stonewards resurrects my theory that Dalinar is a Stoneward.  Very nice chart

[Argent]

That's kind of what I was going for with the "super warriors" idea.

[Natans]

That's kind of what I was going for with the "super warriors" idea.

 

Sorry, but you care to explain ? =)

[Argent]

To me, Dalinar's display of superhuman strength during the chasmfiend hunt (when he stops the claw from turning Elhokar into a flatlander) is a pretty clear evidence he is on his way of becoming a Knight Radiant - or at least a Surgebinder. Naturally, I want to find out which order he will / would belong to. I've seen at least on theory that he fits the Stonewards profile, so that's what I looked at first. 

 

From the updated chart, we know the Stonewards' first surge - surface tension. Their second one is something they share with Order #10 / Ishar's order (though that's irrelevant). So, surface tension. To me, this sounds like a defensive surge - it feels like you would be able to use it to create armor, or shield, or defensive equipment out of everything. Including towels. So that covers the Stonewards' "wards." It stands to reason that their other surge gives them the "stone" part of their name. At this point, I play a quick round of the association game - the word stone makes me think of earth, firmness, stability, (inner) strength, slowness. Knowing Dalinar's only display of Stonewarding (stopping the chasmfiend's claw), stability and strength kind of match the profile. I can't really decide between the two, but if I choose stability, then Ishar's order is left with stability and gravity - and I just can't figure out how those two will play with each other. So I choose strength. 

 

It fits, I think. Stonewards sounds warrior-y. Dalinar is warrior-y. Strength and surface tension would give a warrior a nice combination of offense and defense in a very up-in-your-face warrior-y kind of way - very physical, very classical. Hence, superwarriors.

 

P.S. I suppose endurance could also work for that second surge. I still like strength though.

[Shardlet]

Ok, the recording will give us some further understanding on Elscallers.  Brandon elaborated on the name by saying something like 'E...L...S...Callers' or something like that.  I was focused on Callers v. Scholars (which he did not clarify. PAFO much?), so I don't recall offhand what he said precisely, I'll get the info to you soon (not until late tonight at the earliest).

 

Some info on Surface Tension, it will not be called surface tension in the end.  Brandon described the ability (during Hoser's questions) and surface tension was just Brandon's sort of idea of what you might call it.  The info is cool, but Hoser has http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4258-questions-for-seattle-signing-1014/?p=67836'>posted it since it was his question.  I am virtually 100% certain it will not be called surface tension in the end though.  Hoser also got us the name for another order, but Brandon would not indicate which position it was in.

 

Another interesting bit of info came up about the WoR cover art.  The cover you have seen will not be the cover of WoR.  Michael Whelan has redrawn it twice so far.  Brandon said Kaladin looks very different now (though he did not know if the lame collar on the uniform is gone) and he does not think that the gemheart (yes, Brandon said it was a gemheart) is in the picture anymore.

 

Brandon read Jasnah from WoR and the same scene from SoS.  So nothing new on the readings front. 

 

I have about 7 questions I asked and those answers will be forthcoming (before the recordings of pertinent bits are posted).

Edited October 15, 2013 by Shardlet

[Natans]

To me, Dalinar's display of superhuman strength during the chasmfiend hunt (when he stops the claw from turning Elhokar into a flatlander) is a pretty clear evidence he is on his way of becoming a Knight Radiant - or at least a Surgebinder. Naturally, I want to find out which order he will / would belong to. I've seen at least on theory that he fits the Stonewards profile, so that's what I looked at first. 

 

From the updated chart, we know the Stonewards' first surge - surface tension. Their second one is something they share with Order #10 / Ishar's order (though that's irrelevant). So, surface tension. To me, this sounds like a defensive surge - it feels like you would be able to use it to create armor, or shield, or defensive equipment out of everything. Including towels. So that covers the Stonewards' "wards." It stands to reason that their other surge gives them the "stone" part of their name. At this point, I play a quick round of the association game - the word stone makes me think of earth, firmness, stability, (inner) strength, slowness. Knowing Dalinar's only display of Stonewarding (stopping the chasmfiend's claw), stability and strength kind of match the profile. I can't really decide between the two, but if I choose stability, then Ishar's order is left with stability and gravity - and I just can't figure out how those two will play with each other. So I choose strength. 

 

It fits, I think. Stonewards sounds warrior-y. Dalinar is warrior-y. Strength and surface tension would give a warrior a nice combination of offense and defense in a very up-in-your-face warrior-y kind of way - very physical, very classical. Hence, superwarriors.

 

P.S. I suppose endurance could also work for that second surge. I still like strength though.

 

I agree with the order but a don't like the "superstrenght" surge idea. 

 

Superface tension, I will need google that =)

 

Edit.

But having a second thought Tal broke the Kholinar gate using fist as battering ram, so maybe there is something here.

 

huhhh

Edited October 15, 2013 by Natans

[Argent]

Another interesting bit of info came up about the WoR cover art.  The cover you have seen will not be the cover of WoR.  Michael Whelan has redrawn it twice so far.  Brandon said Kaladin looks very different now (though he did not know if the lame collar on the uniform is gone) and he does not think that the gemheart (yes, Brandon said it was a gemheart) is in the picture anymore.

 

Whaaat?

[Natans]

Whaaat?

 

I think they will make Kalladin less caucasian, the "Rambo Kalladin" in the WOR don't match the in book description of a Alethi person =)

[Argent]

Maybe. I think he could pass for an Alethi - Brandon suggested that East Indian matches the Alethi complexion well enough, and a quick Google search reveals (mostly) people who could pass for lightly tanned Caucasians, as far as the color of the skin is concerned. It's not like our favorite lowlander looks Scandinavian

 

Also. +1 for Rambo Kaladin. Something about the current cover had been bothering me for months (literally since I saw it), and I finally know what it is. Kaladin does look like Rambo.

[cem]

I'm kinda glad it was redrawn. That guy doesn't look like how I picture Kaladin in my mind at all.

 

To me, Dalinar's display of superhuman strength during the chasmfiend hunt (when he stops the claw from turning Elhokar into a flatlander) is a pretty clear evidence he is on his way of becoming a Knight Radiant - or at least a Surgebinder. Naturally, I want to find out which order he will / would belong to. I've seen at least on theory that he fits the Stonewards profile, so that's what I looked at first. 

 

From the updated chart, we know the Stonewards' first surge - surface tension. Their second one is something they share with Order #10 / Ishar's order (though that's irrelevant). So, surface tension. To me, this sounds like a defensive surge - it feels like you would be able to use it to create armor, or shield, or defensive equipment out of everything. Including towels. So that covers the Stonewards' "wards." It stands to reason that their other surge gives them the "stone" part of their name. At this point, I play a quick round of the association game - the word stone makes me think of earth, firmness, stability, (inner) strength, slowness. Knowing Dalinar's only display of Stonewarding (stopping the chasmfiend's claw), stability and strength kind of match the profile. I can't really decide between the two, but if I choose stability, then Ishar's order is left with stability and gravity - and I just can't figure out how those two will play with each other. So I choose strength. 

 

It fits, I think. Stonewards sounds warrior-y. Dalinar is warrior-y. Strength and surface tension would give a warrior a nice combination of offense and defense in a very up-in-your-face warrior-y kind of way - very physical, very classical. Hence, superwarriors.

 

P.S. I suppose endurance could also work for that second surge. I still like strength though.

Strength doesn't fit at all. For one thing it's completely redundant, stormlight already makes Surgebinders stronger, faster and more durable. They don't need another ability for that. Also, strength can't be a Surge. I mean, Surges are natural forces. How can strength be called a natural force?

Edited October 15, 2013 by cem

[Stormfather]

I'm kinda glad it was redrawn. That guy doesn't look like how I picture Kaladin in my mind at all.

 

Strength doesn't fit at all. For one thing it's completely redundant, stormlight already makes Surgebinders stronger, faster and more durable. They don't need another ability for that. Also, strength can't be a Surge. I mean, Surges are natural forces. How can strength be called a natural force?

 

I don't think it's increasing strength.  Like you said, it doesn't seem to fit.  But if you increase the surface tension you increase how much damage it can take and how resilient it is.  I think that is what fits with Dalinar in that scene.  If he increases his surface tension with his environment then it's a lot harder to hurt him and he is able to draw strength from what is around him.  Just my own theory though

[Argent]

I am not sure it would give him enough strength to hold the claw in place - it might give him the endurance to not get punctured, or maimed, or smashed, but I still feel like he would need some added strength to exert an opposing force. I am thinking of a hammer and a nail analogy - the nail has enough endurance to not be broken by the hammer, but it will still get shoved downwards. 

 

But I definitely see your reasoning - I am more inclined to believe mine for now, but not by much. I recognize shaky logic when I see it.

[Natans]

Maybe. I think he could pass for an Alethi - Brandon suggested that East Indian matches the Alethi complexion well enough, and a quick Google search reveals (mostly) people who could pass for lightly tanned Caucasians, as far as the color of the skin is concerned. It's not like our favorite lowlander looks Scandinavian

 

Also. +1 for Rambo Kaladin. Something about the current cover had been bothering me for months (literally since I saw it), and I finally know what it is. Kaladin does look like Rambo.

 

Recent interview about About the Alethi looks.

LI: Yeah! Kind of along the same lines, I just want to confirm something. If someone from Earth saw an Alethi, what ethnicity would they assume they were?

SA: It would – The model I use are actually for the half-Hawaiian, half-Asians that are kind of common in Hawaii. That’s the model I’ve used; I actually have one of their faces for Kaladin. So it would depend on what your perspective is, you might say– some people might say Arab, but the model I’m using is kind of more Hawaiian/Asian mix is what you’d get. The only ones that would look Caucasian to you straight-up would probably be the Shin, though if you get someone who has Horneater blood– The Horneaters might look– they just– they’re gonna look like bizarre… redhead… things, but they might look Caucasian to you.

Better yet how Shallan looks

 

EL: So would Shallan also be more towards that?

SA: Yeah, Shallan has lighter skin. But she still has the epicanthic fold, and so she maybe would look to you like a Caucasian/Asian mix? With red hair? So… Anyway, she would look fairly Caucasian.

 

To be honest I never saw a half-Hawaiian, half-Asians person, so i googled that and the best that I finded was this.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5sNiS-cF8BI/S8T66pjxqCI/AAAAAAAAAC8/BK-LtB1njJ4/s1600/part+asian.jpg

 

 

 

 

And about Rambo Kalladin, the first time that a looked to that red ribbon I imagined Rambo fighting Szeth with an .50 machinegun  =)

Edited October 15, 2013 by Joe ST
quote tags

[WeiryWriter]

Wow, this is awesome.  I admit defeat, Heat is not a Surge.  I do wonder how the Stoneward appears out of nowhere in Starfalls since Stonewards don't have transportation, did she use a fabrial?

 

Since Division is based off the strong/weak forces, I wonder what Transformation is based off?

 

On the "Elscallers" vs. "Elsecallers" it is probably the latter, the other orders are both combinations of two words and "els" isn't a word.

[Shardlet]

Ooh! I just recalled something else that was super-cool.  Some of you may have heard of wetlandernw here or on the Tor rereads.  Anyway, part of the answers to one of her questions (which I will be providing all of to you soon) was that there were some spren on Roshar prior to the arrival of Cultivation and Honor.  These spren resulted from some power left behind by Adonalsium.  Whether this was a snafu of creation, inadvertant neglecting of a bit of dropped power, or some intentional investiture was unclear.  But it appears that spren are a key feature of how Roshar handles loose power of creation.

[cem]

Wow, this is awesome.  I admit defeat, Heat is not a Surge.  I do wonder how the Stoneward appears out of nowhere in Starfalls since Stonewards don't have transportation, did she use a fabrial?

She must have. We know Radiants had that ability. There are mentions of fast travel to/from Urithiru by non-Surgebinders in WoK.

[callumke]

I'm glad to hear, after its description involving the towel, that the Surge is not called Surface Tension as its final name. Surface tension (as I was reading about earlier) is all about liquids, particularly water. You could manipulate liquids based on the physics, but not much more. This sounds more interesting.

 

Thanks for the hard work gathering info everyone! I am excited to see more Surgebinding in action; what will transportation and surface tension do? How about pressure and division? Exciting times.

 

RE the Travelling Stoneward, I am curious too. Dalinar is certain that the ancients don't have fabrials, and so I wonder where the soulcasters came from. What is mentioned about transportation in tWoK seems related to the Oathgates; maybe a Urithiru oathgate can send Radiants anywhere? Then why did the Windrunner need to "fly" in? Still so much to know!

[WeiryWriter]

I kind of hope it is a fabrial that she has on her person, otherwise she has a long walk home.  It could be an Oathgate though, but I got the impression they weren't very mobile.

 

Dalinar is certainly wrong about the "ancients don't have fabrials" thing.  We see a Regrowth fabrial in the Starfalls vision. (We know it is a fabrial because Stonewards don't have the Growth Surge.

[Kurkistan]

Dalinar was mainly talking about "modern" fabrials, I think, so there's no need for his statement to be taken as a sweeping declaration encompassing fSoulcasters and the like.

[karaokeang]

Have we started a database with all the surgebinders (suspected and confirmed) that we have run into and hints about them?  Do we want to?  It would be a great place to collect hints so we can begin guessing at different orders and who belongs where.

[WeiryWriter]

Have we started a database with all the surgebinders (suspected and confirmed) that we have run into and hints about them?  Do we want to?  It would be a great place to collect hints so we can begin guessing at different orders and who belongs where.

 

I'm not sure. But I do think it would be worth a thread in the WoR spoiler forum.

[Natans]

I'm not sure. But I do think it would be worth a thread in the WoR spoiler forum.

 

Someone call "Lady Sabrina Stormshardor" or "Master Isomere" to do the honor, after all theirs threads are the prelude of all "Mordern Surge/ Order Tables" discusion in this forum

Edited October 15, 2013 by Natans

[cem]

Let me hijack it instead. I'll finish it and post it in WoR spoiler forum in 15 minutes or so.

 

Okay, here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4327-known-surgebinders/

Edited October 15, 2013 by cem

[hoser]

Brandon read Jasnah from WoR and the same scene from SoS.  So nothing new on the readings front.

Except that, IIRC, in this version the creepy foreigners with their strange conversation at the end didn't happen.  I'm thinking it got edited out in the meantime. 

 

But having a second thought Tal broke the Kholinar gate using fist as battering ram, so maybe there is something here.

I believe that he used a Shardblade. 

 

RE the Travelling Stoneward, I am curious too. Dalinar is certain that the ancients don't have fabrials, and so I wonder where the soulcasters came from. What is mentioned about transportation in tWoK seems related to the Oathgates; maybe a Urithiru oathgate can send Radiants anywhere? Then why did the Windrunner need to "fly" in? Still so much to know!

This is mostly supposition, but to teleport someone somewhere, maybe a target is needed.  One of the two flying orders can use a detection ability to travel to where the Midnight Essence is.  Another order can target the location of the Knight who flew in and send the stoneward.  This scenario assumes detection and probably communication, but I don't see how that vision happens w/out them. 

Edited October 15, 2013 by hoser

[Natans]

 believe that he used a Shardblade. 

 

 

He used the Blade to cut the lock but crashed down the gates =)