Portland Steelheart Signing

[hoser]

The interview database has nothing useful on shardpools.  This thread has some interesting unattributed quotes (which might want to be in the interview database).  I must be missing something, because they seem to jump from the idea that Sazed no longer has the Pits of Hathsin or the Well of Ascension to assuming that only impaired shards need shardpools. 

 

Another possibility would be that Harmony has a Shardpool that is different than that of either Ruin or Preservation.  I think asking about shardpools could go on the list of questions I mostly won't get to at the Seattle signing.  

[Kurkistan]

Yeah, the only "decodable" thing we've decoded was the notebook, so let's just call that a mistake. So our conclusion is: The black stone contains an "evil spren" like the one we saw in the Purelake interlude with Dalinar. Good to know.

 

Thank you Josh.

[Argent]

Which would make it an "evil" Fabrial? A Fabrial that mimics a Voidbringer's... void? abilities?

Edited October 10, 2013 by Argent

[Morsk]

Or it's a proto-Shardblade. The Prologue even says the Alethi close to making Shardblades, but Szeth dismisses it as exaggeration. Irony! My reasoning is based partly on the Eshonai reading from WoR

Eshonia is confident that something Galvinar was planning would bring back the Parshendi's "gods". Fabrials are a new invention, so it's hard to imagine how Eshonai would understand the ramifications of this cutting edge technology. But Shardblades are old, and the Parshendi might know about old things.

Or it could be both, if all Shardblades are "evil" Fabrials. We now know that any Surgebinding can be put in a fabrial. Shardblades could be a fabrial for Voidbinding. It's sort of odd that there's only one type though.

Thank you Josh.

I agree! Thanks, this is really interesting. I used to think it had to be some super-unique artifact. I never considered that it was a technological innovation related to fabrials.

[Shardlet]

Which would make it an "evil" Fabrial? A Fabrial that mimics a Voidbinder's... void? binding? abilities?

 

 I used to think it had to be some super-unique artifact. I never considered that it was a technological innovation related to fabrials.

 

I don't know that it would be a fabrial since it is just described as a stone.  Fabrials are devices which have a gem with a spren trapped in it.  There is no description to indicate that Gavilar's stone is a device.  I suspect it is a special stone with a special type of spren trapped inside it, but not attached to a fabriel (yet).

[Windrunner]

Well, a fabrial is just a gemstone cut in a certain way that contains a spren and has been charged with Stormlight to produce an effect. If it's attached to something else, like the pain knife, it's referred to as a machine. So the stone could be a fabrial.

[Argent]

/> Well, a fabrial is just a gemstone cut in a certain way that contains a spren and has been charged with Stormlight to produce an effect. If it's attached to something else, like the pain knife, it's referred to as a machine. So the stone could be a fabrial.

That's kind of what I was going for. If it's not a full blown Fabrial, then it could be the core, the engine of one. The actual black stone is the gem that holds the dark spren, and people with sufficient knowledge can attach that gem to... something... and turn that something into a Fabrial. It doesn't strike me as the heart of a Shardblade, though that's also a possibly.

 

EDIT: After consulting with Navani's notebook, I think we have a few more options for what the black sphere could be (though I still find the Fabrial the most likely one). I don't think any of the others are true, but I'll list them for completeness' sake.

 

First, it could be just a gem unknown to the Roshari (Rosharians? Rosharan?), cut into spherical shape. The dark light it seems to emit could be explained by the physical properties of the gem, combined with it being infused with stormlight (which causes gems to glow); unlikely, but possible.

Second, it could be a Fabrial - the gem is again of unknown type (at least not one Szeth recognizes), and the captured (dark) spren causes the unnatural glow. Makes perfect sense to me. Whether it has been infused or not is irrelevant in this case, I think.

Finally, it could actually be a machine - the sphere is bound by a chance, so in theory at least it could be some weird boomerang, or soul-eating garotte, or something... But this seems even less plausible than first option. The chain is most likely just for holding the storming thing.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Argent

[Isomere]

This is great new info and it will be fun to see what this type of spren can do. Ive never heard a formal definition, but for me a Fabrial must have a gem, a trapped spren, and a metal frame to filter the stormlight into a Surgepattern. Without the metal setting, the light wouldn't make one of these patterns and it couldn't create an effect:

In the top left of navani's notebook page you can see how the metal setting creates shadows in the stormlight and forms the Surgepattern. To access magic I think you need a component from each of the three realms, and the metal functions as the cognitive component in a Fabrial.

[Windrunner]

That's kind of what I was going for. If it's not a full blown Fabrial, then it could be the core, the engine of one. The actual black stone is the gem that holds the dark spren, and people with sufficient knowledge can attach that gem to... something... and turn that something into a Fabrial. It doesn't strike me as the heart of a Shardblade, though that's also a possibly.

But that's the thing. If it's got a spren, is charged, (maybe that wire thing) and has a specific type of cut it is a fabrial, it doesn't need to be attached to anything.  But for example, if Navani wanted to build an elevator, theoretically she could make a reverser out of an amethyst and the two resulting gems would fabrials. They don't need to be attached to an elevator to be a fabrial. This is kind of getting into semantics though.

[Argent]

Right, I kind of fixed that in my edit, @Windrunner. I feel so behind on my Cosmere lore, constantly typing stuff I half-remember, then going back and either finding out I was wrong, or having someone point it out to me...

[Isomere]

But that's the thing. If it's got a spren, is charged, (maybe that wire thing) and has a specific type of cut it is a fabrial, it doesn't need to be attached to anything.  But for example, if Navani wanted to build an elevator, theoretically she could make a reverser out of an amethyst and the two resulting gems would fabrials. They don't need to be attached to an elevator to be a fabrial. This is kind of getting into semantics though.

The cut and color determine which type of spren are attracted and bound in the gem. The metal setting creates a Surgepattern so it knows to be a reverser and not, say, a diminisher Fabrial. Without the metal setting no magic happens, so I personally don't call it a Fabrial.

[Kurkistan]

Right, I kind of fixed that in my edit, @Windrunner. I feel so behind on my Cosmere lore, constantly typing stuff I half-remember, then going back and either finding out I was wrong, or having someone point it out to me...

 

It's no problem, Regent Argent. Better for you to come back into the fold and take some time to readjust than just disappearing forever. We need more active voices around these parts.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Argent]

Well, "Regent" was new... People usually misspell my username as "Agent"

[Kurkistan]

Ahem. Hem. Hem. 

[Natans]

Well, "Regent" was new... People usually misspell my username as "Agent"

 

From "Agent" to "Regent" you are sure growing in this forum

[askthepaperclip]

I suspect that the gem is indeed trapping an "evil spren", that the evil spren are the voidbringers, and that the releasing (or trapping) of one or more of the evil spren from the stone marks the start (or end) of a desolation. Callin it now!

Edited October 10, 2013 by askthepaperclip

[Argent]

I don't know about the dark spren being (damnit, but this sounds better than "evil spren") Voidbringers. It's possible, I guess, but it feels like they should be human. Or Parshmen. Bad Parshmen.

[Natans]

I suspect that the gem is indeed trapping an "evil spren", that the evil spren are the voidbringers, and that the releasing (or trapping) of one or more of the evil spren from the stone marks the start (or end) of a desolation. Callin it now!

 

Now this make perfect sense, lets to do the math.

 

 

1- In the Dalinar purelake vision he saw a "voidbringer spreen".

 

2- The Parshendi Killed Gavilar to stop him to bring back the "old gods" of parshendi, Aka voidbringer spreens.

 

3- The "Parshendi forms" are some kind o magic system that use certain spreens to change the physical/mental/emotional traits of the parshendi, by starting some kind of symbiotic relationship with differents kinds of spreens.

So if Gavilar's dark gem is really voidbringer spreen trapped, and if that spreen escape he could bond with the parsheman or parshendis to make the "voidbringer parshemen" that are the odium's basic troops in the desolations, this would explain the need to kill Gavilar.

 

And more, by what we already know, the forms change de basic dispostion of the parshemen, like when they are in the mate form and can't think anything else different, that "you know".

 

If the voidbringer spreen have some of the odium touch(investidure), for sure the parshemen woud go berserk in the voidbringer form.

 

And more, like in the ruin exemple, if the parshemen received some kind of odium investidure, odium could "control" or atleast influence the parsheman to to his desires, like the inquisitors.

 

I'm starting to think that the parsheman aren't of odium. Maybe they are of cultivation and the Odium only exploited the spreen+parsheman symbiose, so he could save his investidure to do another things what would make sense, give the fact that hewould bring "hate" between culivation and honor beings.

 

Make sense ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by Natans

[WeiryWriter]

Now this make perfect sense, lets to do the math.

 

 

1- In the Dalinar purelake vision he saw a "voidbringer spreen".

 

2- The Parshendi Killed Gavilar to stop him to bring back the "old gods" of parshendi, Aka voidbringer spreens.

 

3- The "Parshendi forms" are some kind o magic system that use certain spreens to change the physical/mental/emotional traits of the parshendi, by starting some kind of symbiotic relationship with differents kinds of spreens.

So if Gavilar's dark gem is really voidbringer spreen trapped, and if that spreen escape he could bond with the parsheman or parshendis to make the "voidbringer parshemen" that are the odium's basic troops in the desolations, this would explain the need to kill Gavilar.

 

And more, by what we already know, the forms change de basic dispostion of the parshemen, like when they are in the mate form and can't think anything else different, that "you know".

 

If the voidbringer spreen have some of the odium touch(investidure), for sure the parshemen woud go berserk in the voidbringer form.

 

And more, like in the ruin exemple, if the parshemen received some kind of odium investidure, odium could "control" or atleast influence the parsheman to to his desires, like the inquisitors.

 

I'm starting to think that the parsheman aren't of odium. Maybe they are of cultivation and the Odium only exploited the spreen+parsheman symbiose, so he could save his investidure to do another things what would make sense, give the fact that hewould bring "hate" between culivation and honor beings.

 

Make sense ?

 

 

1- Actually he saw a "corrupted spren" which

bonded with stone to form a Thunderclast.  From what we understand it was corrupted by the touch of somebody, likely one of the Unmade.

 

2- We have no idea what the "old gods" of the Parshendi are.  I find it more likely that they are the Unmade rather than corrupted spren.

[Natans]

1- Actually he saw a "corrupted spren" which

bonded with stone to form a Thunderclast.  From what we understand it was corrupted by the touch of somebody, likely one of the Unmade.

 

2- We have no idea what the "old gods" of the Parshendi are.  I find it more likely that they are the Unmade rather than corrupted spren.

 

 

1- If he bonded with the thunderclast is possible that he can bond with another being, like the parshmen.

 

2- This is true, I need express myself better in this one =)

Edited October 10, 2013 by Natans

[Joshstormblessed]

I for one feel that the parshendi are inherently good moral beings and that eventually they will aid in the fight against odium.

I also wanted to mention something that occurred to me in relation to the trapping of spren for the use of fabrials. At the signing brandon read from a WoR interlude that gave the perspective of a parshendi female. I don't remember her name but she was trying to get her warriors to paint and attract creation spren. Is it possible she is attempting to make some form of creation fabrial? And any thoughts on what she might be trying to create?

[Argent]

The reason she is making try stuff to attract spren is because the Parshendi change forms (war, mating, etc) by forming some sorts of bonds with certain spren. I don't think we've seen specifics, but for the sake of example, attracting a passionspren or lovespren would allow a member of this race to change his or her form into mating. Eshonai - the Parshendi Shardbearer whose viewpoint we follow - has a sister who is researching the process behind changing forms. Eshonai believes that attracting artspren (?) will help her sister figure out what drives change. And once she has the process down, she has the potential to unlock a myriad of new forms - which Eshonai hopes will revive her people from the limited existence they now have.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Argent

[Windrunner]

Her name is Eshonai, by the way. You might remember her if you paid careful attention during TWoK.

[Mysty]

Joshstormblessed

Brandon didn't finish reading the interlude at the signing, which might be why you didn't know what Eshonai's sister was working on. A complete transcription is found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cDGlSyePKuiyYb_e0yBHzTYCvvqQgoPweEh_EM3sRlE/mobilebasic?pli=1

[WeiryWriter]

1- If he bonded with the thunderclast is possible that he can bond with another being, like the parshmen.

 

I agree, it is entirely possible.  I didn't mean to give the impression that I didn't.  I just wanted to point out that it was a corrupted spren as opposed to a "voidbringer" spren since the two have different connotations.