WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 On the Open-ended vs. Specific Question debate. I would like to point out the more wiggle room you give Brandon the more he can be like an Aes Sedai. (Also I have a labeled surgebinding chart if you need one) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 maybe ask about the huge spren from the interlude, which allways surfaces at sunrise from the ocean.. it was shown us as a curiosity in the book, but i think it is more then that. --- there are things we will learn for sure with the comming books, but some things will be allways in question =) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) On the Open-ended vs. Specific Question debate. I would like to point out the more wiggle room you give Brandon the more he can be like an Aes Sedai. (Also I have a labeled surgebinding chart if you need one) Could I sugest that we presetend a Table of Surges/Orders with all information about surges and orders confirmed and the and speculation, to try discover as much as possible? Orders confirmed. 1 - First Order Top Right - Windrunners - Jezrien 2 - Second Order Top Right - Skybreakers - Nalan 4 - (Lift interlude reading spoiller) - First Order Bottom Right - Edgedancers - Vedeledev [\spoiler] - 6 - First Order Bottom Left - Lightweavers - Shalash 9 - First Order Top Left - Stonewads - Telenelat Orders Speculated Brightcallers Wolrdsingers Surges Confirmed Gravity Atmosferic Pressure Transformation (Lift interlude reading spoiller) Growth Friction [\spoiler] Light (lightweaver) Surges Speculated Eletromagnetic Forces Strong/Weak Atomic Forces Travel Edited October 14, 2013 by Natans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Could I sugest that we presetend a Table of Surges/Orders with all information about surges and orders confirmed and the and speculation, to try discover as much as possible? Orders confirmed. 1 - First Order Top Right - Windrunners - Jezrien 2 - Second Order Top Right - Skybreakers - Nalan 4 - (Lift interlude reading spoiller) 6 - First Order Bottom Left - Lightweavers - Shalash 9 - First Order Top Left - Stonewads - Telenelat Orders Speculated Brightcallers Wolrdsingers Surges Confirmed Gravity Atmosferic Pressure Transformation (Lift interlude reading spoiller) Light (lightweaver) Surges Speculated Eletromagnetic Forces Strong/Weak Atomic Forces Travel We really aren't supposed to post Steelhunt spoilers, even in spoiler tags. Which is why I haven't posted my table directly to the forums, but have made it freely available over PMs. Travel is already a confirmed surge. Electromagnetism=Light And my personal belief is that the strong/weak force=Transformation Edited October 14, 2013 by WeiryWriter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Electromagnetism=Light Does does come from Brandon, or your personal understanding of physics? Because if it's the latter, we run the risk of simplifying everything down to only one surge - quantum gravity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Does does come from Brandon, or your personal understanding of physics? Because if it's the latter, we run the risk of simplifying everything down to only one surge - quantum gravity My personal understanding of physics, light is electromagnetism it is an irrefutable fact. I concede that it is possible surgebinding splits electromagnetism into more than one surge but I have a hard time seeing Brandon doing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Well, he might be forced* to. As we understand the four universal forces (electromagnetism, gravity, weak force, strong force), three of them (except gravity) are really a single force. There is no difference between, say, electromagnetism and the weak force, save for the (virtual) particle that transmits it. One of the current goals of particle physics is to figure out a way to add gravity to the mix, so we end up with only one universal force instead of four - quantum gravity. This being said, treating light and electromagnetism as the same thing (in the Cosmere) could be bad, because it would imply that Brandon is taking the physics of surges seriously - and if he is doing that, he might have to reduce too many of the surges/forces down to a single one. Am I making sense? * I am so punny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Also Te weak force is useless since you can build a unidiverse without the weak force and it would work just fine you could even make a whole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakless_Universe and you could still get Earth which means that as a surge it would be boring and also esoteritc and that doesnt seem fun at all. Relaly I think heat makes more sense because it is not fundamental but it is important and that is the big thing I think important things like pressure or friction or light that are not totally fundamental forces since I dont think that lightweaving lets you be magneto all shooting people with lightning or metal control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 As I understand it, there is the information from the Beaverton signing (warning, steelhunt spoilers), which has some degree of canonicality. Leaving aside what I believe to be Steelhunt info, it includes a table with Skybreakers as order 2 and Dustbringers as order 3, sharing a surge of fire. It just seems wrong to me. We have so many words for fire, heat and lightning that aren't like "breaker" or "dust". I think from the words, we know that it is explosive and I believe there is WoB that there might be surges using weak/strong force. So, putting things together, this explosive surge shared by order 2 and 3 "could" be weak, strong or both. As I understand it, Soulcasting was initially conceived of as a an alternate to surgebinding, so I think there is room for doubt about whether weak/strong force=Soulcasting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 As I understand it, there is the information from the Beaverton signing (warning, steelhunt spoilers), which has some degree of canonicality. Leaving aside what I believe to be Steelhunt info, it includes a table with Skybreakers as order 2 and Dustbringers as order 3, sharing a surge of fire. It just seems wrong to me. We have so many words for fire, heat and lightning that aren't like "breaker" or "dust". I think from the words, we know that it is explosive and I believe there is WoB that there might be surges using weak/strong force. So, putting things together, this explosive surge shared by order 2 and 3 "could" be weak, strong or both. As I understand it, Soulcasting was initially conceived of as a an alternate to surgebinding, so I think there is room for doubt about whether weak/strong force=Soulcasting. Well heat is atomic motion, increase that enough I could see explosions happening. Heat+Atmospheric Pressure is basically weather, which could be said to "break" the sky. These are just theories though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 My main concern is the words. Heat + Atmospheric Pressure doesn't get me to "dust". Blowing things up with weak/strong force manipulation gets me to both "breaker" and "dust". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 My main concern is the words. Heat + Atmospheric Pressure doesn't get me to "dust". Blowing things up with weak/strong force manipulation gets me to both "breaker" and "dust". I think Heat+Atmospheric Pressure is Skybreakers so one wouldn't get "dust." I think Dustbringers are Order 3, so would have Heat+Steelhunt surge. I just don't see weak/strong force as more explosive than atomic motion. Transformation potentially requires the breaking/forming of bonds at a fundamental level which would require manipulation of the the strong/weak force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I Think that The Weak/atomic force surge could generate heat by acceleration or deceleration of the atoms. This would be my best guess, because to burn rocks like the radiants do in the preface you would need hundreds of Cº to do the trick, but I'm only guessing. In true I'm waiting someone ask Brandon if electromagnetic forces and weak/strong force are really surges like he said. We allready have confirmed was surges: Transformation, Light, Growth, *edited*, Gravity, Atmosferic Pressure. If we add the surges of: Eletromagnetic Force Weak/Strong Atomic force (heat/fire if you care) And Travel Just remain one surge to be discovered, and i guess that this surge is related wit earth, like sismic power or something because none fit with the stonewards in my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I Think that The Weak/atomic force surge could generate heat by acceleration or deceleration of the atoms. This would be my best guess, because to burn rocks like the radiants do in the preface you would need hundreds of Cº to do the trick, but I'm only guessing. In true I'm waiting someone ask Brandon if electromagnetic forces and weak/strong force are really surges like he said. We allready have confirmed was surges: Transformation, Light, Growth, *edited*, Gravity, Atmosferic Pressure. If we add the surges of: Eletromagnetic Force Weak/Strong Atomic force (heat/fire if you care) And Travel Just remain one surge to be discovered, and i guess that this surge is related wit earth, like sismic power or something because none fit with the stonewards in my opinion. Travel is already a confirmed surge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Skybreakers Could make thunder with heat + pressure I mean that's like breaking the sky when a big thunderboom happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I think Heat+Atmospheric Pressure is Skybreakers so one wouldn't get "dust." I think Dustbringers are Order 3, so would have Heat+Steelhunt surge. I just don't see weak/strong force as more explosive than atomic motion. Transformation potentially requires the breaking/forming of bonds at a fundamental level which would require manipulation of the the strong/weak force. Just a guess, but if you look closely to the surge glyphs in the Windrunner Order (Gravity and Atmosferic Pressure), you can notice two things: The top one looks like something is "expanding" from bottom-top. The bottom one looks like something is being pulled top-bottom direction. The "Word of Sanderson" said that the glyphs represent things in a "abstract way" that, sometimes, only the person that know what the glyph meaning can understand. So I'm guessing that the top one is Atmosferic pressure, and the bottom one is Gravity. So the Skybreaker would get gravity was a surge. Another thing is that the growth glyphs sure looks like something growing check it out. Skybreakers Could make thunder with heat + pressure I mean that's like breaking the sky when a big thunderboom happens. I allways forget this one, tks for the reminder =) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The way I remember it is that glyphs are commonly, but not always, stylized in a way to portray their meaning. I prefer to put atmospheric pressure as between 1 and 2 because they both have gaseous Essences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Strong interactions hold nucleii together. Weakening the strong force could easily cause "breaking", bring "dust" and make rocks smolder. Based on the Starfalls vision, I think that communication or detection is a surge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 The way I remember it is that glyphs are commonly, but not always, stylized in a way to portray their meaning. I prefer to put atmospheric pressure as between 1 and 2 because they both have gaseous Essences. It's just a guess. But to me he Skybreakers would get the eletromagnetic surge and gravity, but you could be correct after all,was you said the glyphs are commonly, but not always, stylized in a way to portray their meaning I'm not holding my breath in this one=) Let's wait and see after the Seatle signing. Im curious about the questions that will be asked =) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I am selfishly developing my own line of questions. Some should give us some broad food for thought. The only SA questions I have are specific to the Thrill. I will likely post my answers tomorrow morning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 />I am selfishly developing my own line of questions. Some should give us some broad food for thought.The only SA questions I have are specific to the Thrill. I will likely post my answers tomorrow morning. Oh Are you foing to seattlte too that is awesome so many people at the same signing I am Jealous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 I am selfishly developing my own line of questions. Some should give us some broad food for thought. The only SA questions I have are specific to the Thrill. I will likely post my answers tomorrow morning. Very selfish of your part Mr. Shardlet. Print e carry a Surge/Order Table and ask him some question if you got time and we forgive you Just joking, good signing =) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Slightly off topic but: Is it confirmed that Shallan is Order 6 and Jasnah is Order 7? If yes, could someone give me the source? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Slightly off topic but: Is it confirmed that Shallan is Order 6 and Jasnah is Order 7? If yes, could someone give me the source? http://lunarubato.tumblr.com/post/63708891840/alright-so-ellie-lisa-brittany-and-i-went-to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Oh, thanks, it would help to read more concentrated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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