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Spoiler: New Purelake reading Info.


Looter

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Alright there is a little bit of a spoiler here so if you don't like them please don't read it.

During his Steelheart release at the Kings English, (And 15th street gallery,) Brandon read two chapters from up coming books one was a chapter for the future Alloy of law book which was excellent and my wife may start reading some of his works if she ever has time due to it. The second was the Purelake reading which has been read before and linked at the top of the forum page since I have heard this before and read it as well I didn't think it was worth to record so sorry all of this will be secondhand. The reading was the same as before which is to say epic, then he read past his previous stopping point. Here is what I can remember of that little but at the end.

Now seeing as how I have not yet really heard anyone mention this on the forums I will just try and remember it for you all.

As the Radiant charges to attack the Thunderclast Dalinar turns and helps a man up to back away from the beast, the man then talks in a voice he recognizes from his vision saying that the radiants were a surprise to him that the spren had formed in a way similar to the way he himself, (the Almighty,) had formed the Heralds.

He then continues and tells Dalinar that it is to reform the Radiants that the Almighty has been showing him these visions.

Now that is a very rough memory of it but it seems to be the approximate story even if some of the actual words are off.

Sorry about the quality of my memory I generally average about 2 to 5 hours of sleep a day broken into fragments, thus causing my memory to be foggy quite a bit.

Edited by Looter
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I hope someone did as well wish I had recorded it anyway but I didn't think he would keep going past his other stopping point.

This was in Salt Lake City at the kings English stop on the 25th. Sorry I did not mention that earlier.

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He read it at the Cincinnati signing. I don't believe it was recorded but here are the details I recall--

  • Female Radiant in Shardplate that resembled Adolin's
  • Spren that don't act like they should-- looks like a shadowy figure with red eyes, has a 'servant' that looks like a shadowy face with red eyes
  • Fortress made entirely of obsidian in the Purelake
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As the Radiant charges to attack the Thunderclast Dalinar turns and helps a man up to back away from the beast,

So ... Dalinar turns. Away from a red-glowing Radiant, about to use powers that would reveal connections between Surges and Orders.

I hate Dalinar now.

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I hate Dalinar now.

It makes me smile actually. Dalinar is becoming the type of man Honor would respect. Perhaps that is the whole point of these visions, to help potential Radiants grow closer to the almighty so he can more fully Invest them.

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He then continues and tells Dalinar that it is to reform the Radiants that the Almighty has been showing him these visions.

 

This somewhat supports my idea that Dalinar is being prepared to be more than a KR.  I think he may be being prepared as a replacement Herald.  Think about it, who established and led the KR?  The Heralds.  Of course, there is the issue of what Dalinar will do with his shardblade when offered an Honorblade...oh, wait ^_^.

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This somewhat supports my idea that Dalinar is being prepared to be more than a KR. I think he may be being prepared as a replacement Herald. 

So these recordings are being directly made for Dalinar to become a Herald?  Do you not believe then that others have seen these recordings also, as one of the epigraphs seems to indicate?

Think about it, who established and led the KR?  The Heralds.  Of course, there is the issue of what Dalinar will do with his shardblade when offered an Honorblade...oh, wait ^_^.

There is some evidence that the Radiants were established during Nohadon's lifetime, post-desolation, when there would have been no heralds around.  The prelude and starfall vision seem to indicate that the Radiants seemed independant of the Heralds.  Millenia later, people said that the Radiants followed the Heralds.  I think they followed the same ideals, but I find little contemporaneous support for the idea that the Heralds "established and led the KR."

 

The following snippet seems to me to support the entirely opposite conclusion:

that the radiants were a surprise to him that the spren had formed in a way similar to the way he himself, (the Almighty,) had formed the Heralds.

 

I don't doubt that the Radiants respected, maybe even revered, the Heralds, but their establishment and leadership seem independant. 

Edited by hoser
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So these recordings are being directly made for Dalinar to become a Herald?  Do you not believe then that others have seen these recordings also, as one of the epigraphs seems to indicate?

 

I believe that others have had these dreams or visitations that Dalinar endures, but I don't think more than one person at a time has them. I believe that most of these people are driven insane by them because they don't have the proper background or training to reference them. If a scholar had these dreams, he may have a background to understand what was happening, but he would probably be killed before he had a chance to learn anything. A warrior may survive, but wouldn't have the proper background or temporal power to affect any changes. A farmer would just be a victim, etc. I'm not sure what draws the dreams to Dalinar, but if it is a persons character, then they could have been haunting people who lacked the ability or resources to effect the changes that would be needed. It may be that those who have tried in the past have been eliminated as Taravangian intends to do to Dalinar.

 

As for the Radiants, I agree with you that they didn't obey the Heralds. Heralds only existed during desolations. Knight Radiants existed all the time. They needed their own command structure separate from the Heralds or they would fall apart after every desolation.

 

I'd still buy that Dalinar was being groomed to replace a defunct Herald. We don't know what happened to them over the course of millennia. Some we know are well, and likely to be capable of raising their Honorblades in defense of the world, others may be broken or dead.

Edited by Gloom
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Yeah, I can pretty much see all that it might be as you say, Gloom, with one small exception.  I think that any heralds that died would have returned w/Taln, so I'm pretty sure they are all alive, either never having died or newly returned somewhere. 

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My thoughts are similar to Hoser's. I was under the impression that the Heralds are kind of immortal and if they die, they had to go back to Damnation. Hence we don't know if they must necessarily meet in Damnation we, too, don't know if they would return together (though I think so, because the Prelude implies that they must have met before joining the battle, otherwise they wouldn't had made up a meeting point for after the battle). That means I believe that the other nine Heralds are still alive. I don't believe they die and were reborn. If there is such a cycle on Roshar, they would stand out of it.

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Oh, I thought all of our main characters were becoming Heralds. What made me consider this originally was something Brandon said about having 10 books with 10 different characters flashbacks, and Taln was one of them. Just assumed immediately we'd be seeing the history of our Heralds. Maybe one or two have such shared histories that it opens up one book for a non-Herald, or a villain or something, I don't know.

 

I could see there being 10 Heralds and each has control of one Order's power, which they can somehow distribute (not sure if that system would work while they were dead or would need to be handed down in some form). After all, one of the KR's in Dalinar's vision told him he might want to apply to be a KR, or something along this line. So I don't think KR are naturally in possession of these powers, but I could see Heralds having them (Spren bonds are as natural as anything in my opinion).

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I agree that the Heralds could only lead the KR in the run up and during a desolation, but I completely reject the the idea that the KR weren't formed until after the last desolation.  If you are speaking of the Nohadon vision as your evidence, then this is thin for anything except that there are more Nahel bonding spren than just honorspren.  Starfalls clearly indicates that the KR are pre-last desolation.

 

As to other people seeing the visions, were there not nine Heralds who gave up?  I figure some will redeem themselves (Shalash seems to have a particular self-loathing).  But, I not inclined to think all nine will.  As to them returning to damnation after death, who knows how it would work now that they have abandoned the oathpact.  For the record though, I don't think any of them are dead. 

 

As to the mechanism for becoming a new Herald, I don't know.  It could be as simple as one of the Heralds relinquishing what they have to someone else.  Fact is though, we don't know what they mechanism is for 90% (just a number tossed out there to represent a whole lot of most) of the things we theorize about here.  It could also be that a new Herald would not be as powerful as an original Herald because Honor is dead.

 

@bloodfalcon2:  This thought had occurred to me also.  The rub is that we have two flashback characters with the same surges (Szeth and Kaladin).  It seems for this idea to fly, each would have to have a different set of surges.

Edited by Shardlet
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@bloodfalcon2:  This thought had occurred to me also.  The rub is that we have two flashback characters with the same surges (Szeth and Kaladin).  It seems for this idea to fly, each would have to have a different set of surges.

I think there are plenty of mechanics that could work around this without seeming ridiculous. Just a theory, but we really do know so little about where these powers come from that it doesn't dissuade me when two have the same somehow.

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Doesn't there have to be an Almighty for there to be Heralds of the Almighty? Unless he's going to be a Herald of Cultivation, I suppose.

 

Anyway, I think Dalinar's role, if it's not being a KR, is probably more like Nohadon's. Bringing the Surgebinders together, reforming the Knights Radiant, preparing the world for the Desolation and such. His arc seem similar to what we know of Nohadon to me.

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Doesn't there have to be an Almighty for there to be Heralds of the Almighty? Unless he's going to be a Herald of Cultivation, I suppose.

 

Anyway, I think Dalinar's role, if it's not being a KR, is probably more like Nohadon's. Bringing the Surgebinders together, reforming the Knights Radiant, preparing the world for the Desolation and such. His arc seem similar to what we know of Nohadon to me.

 

I believe that the Almighty was a combination of factors. I believe that Tanavast was the backbone of what is considered the Almighty, but not the entirety. Vorins, for instance don't even have a place for Honor that we know of, they strictly worship the Ten Heralds. The power that was Honor still exists, it is splintered, lacks a central focus point, but the power is still available to fulfill predetermined functions. The Heralds are almost certain to still have their investiture, Spren seem to be able to maintain their investiture, so it stands to reason that as long as the construct was already in place it would seek to fulfill its purpose.

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