Mandamon - 20130930 - Dark Crystal Author Quest Entry Part 2

[Mandamon]

Hi all,

This is the second half of an entry for the Penguin Dark Crystal Author Quest Contest, and I'm looking for the same things as last time.

If you're familiar with The Dark Crystal, this takes place many years before, when there were lots of Gelfling, and the Skeksis and Mystics were young and strong.
I am looking for:
1) Does this evoke the world of Henson's Dark Crystal movie for you?  Why/why not
2) Does this make you want to read a 50,000 word story based on this topic?
3) Gelfling are not human, and are characterized as innocent, naive, and forgetful. Do you see these characteristics?

If you're not familiar with the Dark Crystal, any normal feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!

[Two McMillion]

Comments:

 

I haven't read part 1, nor do I know about Dark Crystal. That in mind, some of these comments may be misleading, but here's what I see:

 

• The part when Lapp and Selvi were Dreamfasting (BTW, where does that name come from? It doesn't seem like a Fast to me.) started out really good ("I've lived my whole life in the forest/I've lived my whole life underground), but the end where Lapp tells her what his grandfather saw seemed too... pat. Even if it's a telepathic thing where keeping stuff quiet is hard, I wouldn't have expected it to be so easy, given how clearly nervous he was about telling them previously. I might have accepted this more if Selvi had tried persuading him to tell her, and he couldn't help it because she was pretty (since that was mentioned to be a factor previously). The fact the characters met up by hearing music might seem a little contrived, too.
• The speech patterns of the characters were very formal, more formal than the narration, actually. That's okay, but as I got used to it (it really started sticking out to me after the Dreamfast), the characters starting using contractions in speech and being a bit less formal, which threw me off.
• I'm not sure I'm getting "innocent, naive, forgetful" vibe from the Gelflings in this piece. Gurjin seemed nothing of the sort, Lapp seemed mostly sad, and while Selvi might have been that at one point she seems to be more than that in the piece.
• I would potentially be interested in reading a 50,000 word story in this world. Not knowing what happened in part 1 makes judging this difficult, but I did find some aspects of the story (Gelfling race, spirit, etc) interesting. I don't know a lot about what's happening or what these new terms mean, but that's okay, I'm used to it in fantasy novels. However, while I meet read some more after this chapter, if this was the first thing in the story that I read, you would not have much time remaining to really grab my attention. Perhaps the end of the chapter at best.

 

I hope you find this helpful! Good luck in that contest!

[Mandamon]

Thanks for the quick feedback!  Oh, and do yourself a favor and watch the Dark Crystal.  I's a really good movie, and you haven't ever seen anything like it--I promise.  If you care to read the first half, send me a PM with your email and I can send it on.  Don't feel obligated, though.

 

Dreamfasting comes from the movie, and there's not a lot of explanation as to whether the communication is completely open, or one can choose what to share.  I took the view that one could keep things away from the other with training.

 

Thanks for the catch on contractions, and the other notes.  I'll look for that in the re-edit.

[Guru Coyote]

I'm still here

Sorry for taking so long to read and comment, I'm starting a new job in a new town with all the fun that goes with that.

 

The second part went well, I think. It's not a story with an ending, but I don't think you were aiming for that. It is a statisfying read, and I'd definitely read the whole novel after this.

I like your handling of the Mystics, their gestures and thoughts very much.

I agree that the dialog towards the end seems to change in style, I was jarred out fo the story once there.

 

I liked how you used the number three as significant number. The constellation of the suns was a nice touch here. The end of the story felt very right: This Is The Beginning, the signs are set.

 

All in all i think this is good Dark Crystal work, I felt like I was in the right universe

 

 

Sorry to not have more detailed comments

[cjhuitt]

My reply will encompass both parts, as I read them one after the other.

 

My first thought was that this wasn't a complete story, but apparently the setup to one.  I realize you probably know this, and I just scanned the quest pages and they say opening chapters are fine, but it was slightly disappointing to realize after the fact.

 

That said, if this is what you are considering submitting, my main critique would be in the area of hooking the reader.  I thought it started out well, and there were some open questions introduced in these chapters, but not a whole lot... and I am speculating that a couple of what I consider open questions are actually answered by the other existent material that I haven't read.  The strongest hooks in my estimation are 1) what's the backstory with Rian and the others?  2) What's up with the urRa's culture and predictions?  3) will Selvi be caught by the groups hunting for her? 4) Will Lapp be caught by the spirit beast? 5) What will the relationship between Selvi and Lapp be like? 6) What will the characters do and encounter next? 7) What will happen to Gurjin to remove him (as the mentor figure)? (This question may betray too much meta-knowledge to be a true hook, but it made me wonder.)

 

As you might have noticed with my list, what will the characters do next is kind of low, and the main characters in this story (so far) don't rank a mention until the 3rd one.  I strongly suspect that at least one of the first two questions I listed are answered elsewhere, either in published works or on the dark crystal web site, and maybe both of them.  In that case, for those who have consumed the other material, that may make the hooks I listed above slide up into the proper positions, but I don't think you want to rely on it, and I'm pretty sure the editors won't want to be relying on that also.

 

That said, the work is supposed to be a calling card for the author, and not specifically a piece of the final, published item, so perhaps it's okay to assume that the editors have this familiarity and thus the hooks will work better on them than they did on me.

 

I did think that the depiction of the urRa was a strong point, although I thought they could use a bit more description.  Especially with the movies to help, a solid visualization ought to be possible.  The Skelsis weren't on stage that I recall, so I won't comment on them.  One note about the urRa; you mention this is set when they (both races) were young and strong, but that's not the impression I get from the text.  The impression I get is that the urRa, while still strong enough to "live independently", are nonetheless in their sunset years.

 

I thought the feel of the piece was right-on for the movie (the only part of the source material I've consumed, and not particularly recently at that).  I thought the main races acted appropriately in as much as I saw them act.

 

I agree that the Dreamfast might use a bit of polish or balance to the revelations shown.  I had some slight concerns about how quickly the two did this as well, though that could also be set up by a small change previous to it to emphasize how common and unconcerning the Dreamfasting is... if that's the way you want it to read.  I did personally think that the Dreamfast, even with narration, might better be primarily concerned with the experiences, and that the decision to tell Gurjin should perhaps have been made in discussion outside the link.

 

The triangle motif and the repeating threes were well done.  However, you might do it more so, especially with the Mystics.  I'm thinking in particular at the end of the piece, where urSen had help being supported by one other, while mentioning all the time that three was the proper number for things.  Wouldn't he then have brought a third with their group, in order to better support each other?

 

I'd encourage you to keep going with this.  I'd read more.

[Mandamon]

Guru, cjhuitt, thanks for the comments. I'm getting exactly the feedback I hoped for. To answer a few of the questions, yes this is an "unfinished" story, in that it's more a display of skill to the contest masters than a true story. Rian's backstory is included as the setup question on the contest website. He's the first Gelfling to figure out the Skeksis are not the noble beings they pose as, and are stealing Gelfling essence. He, Gurjin, Jul, and the new urRu and Skeksis are the new seed characters the company has introduced.

(interesting sidenote--there was recently a poll on the Dark Crystal forums on how many used Rian as the main character. Only one voted yes out of about 20 responses.)

The dialogue hiccups and Dreamfasting seem to be the biggest points, followed by more description needed and even more 3-symbolism, if I can cram it in. This is just what I need to do a second edit. I'll also look at the age of the Mystics. I struggled with that one too.

/>The triangle motif and the repeating threes were well done. However, you might do it more so, especially with the Mystics. I'm thinking in particular at the end of the piece, where urSen had help being supported by one other, while mentioning all the time that three was the proper number for things. Wouldn't he then have brought a third with their group, in order to better support each other?

Oh, very good catch on that one. *facepalm* Of course he would have brought another.

Another question for you all:

Did anyone catch the importance of the spirit beast? This may be a hard one for those not included in the contest, but there is a Skeksis (the opposite of urVa the Archer) who is called skekMal the Hunter, and he's described as almost a wild animal, disguised and catching and eating anything in his path. Now you know that, any other comments about the confrontation between the two halves?

Good/bad/indifferent?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Mandamon

[cjhuitt]

Did anyone catch the importance of the spirit beast? This may be a hard one for those not included in the contest, but there is a Skeksis (the opposite of urVa the Archer) who is called skekMal the Hunter, and he's described as almost a wild animal, disguised and catching and eating anything in his path. Now you know that, any other comments about the confrontation between the two halves?

Good/bad/indifferent?

 

That does remind me that I meant to comment on the confrontation.  I didn't catch the significance of the spirit beast specifically, but the confrontation I did catch that urVa was willing to sacrifice himself, and wondered at that.  I had a vague recollection from the movie that the dying was in pairs, but I didn't make the connection to the spirit beast at all.

[Guru Coyote]

Mandamon, regarding the spirit beast... I must say I also didn't catch the significance in regards to urVa. I took this hunter beast simply as a threat, someone/thing to be always lurking behind the characters, something to drive them on.

The way you described the spirit beast - tentacles in the face if I recall - didn't suggest Skeksis... which I guess is as it might, with SkesMal being 'as a wild animal.'

Plus, in your story there are no other Skeksis at all, so we also don't have any frame of reference in terms of description etc.

The fact that the spirit beast IS the opposite to the Archer makes that part of the tale so much more integral. 

One thought regarding the paining though: I'm not sure if I recall this correctly, but in the film, did the Mystics and the Skeksis actually KNOW of the pairing? That for each of their deaths, the other would die too? I seem to recall that there was some narration claiming that the Mystics wandering towards the castle did not know why they were drawn there.... I could be wrong.

[Mandamon]

Thanks for the feedback.  Looks like I might need to work that part up a notch to get the significance across.  I would have liked to include another Skeksis, but felt it was getting a little crammed into 10k words as it was.

 

Guru- yes, I wasn't sure about the tentacles either, but the lore says he wears a "frightening" mask and with the animal/plant/mineral hybrid creatures that occupy the Dark Crystal world, I thought that might be cool as a disguise.  I'll try to make that part clearer.

 

Also, yes, both the Skeksis and the Mystic (urRu) are aware of the bond and dual deaths.  That's the main reason they stay away from each other.

 

Thanks!