Steelhunt

[askthepaperclip]

FYI, I sent an email to Team Sanderson expressing my thoughts on the Steelhunt. Here are a few excerpts from Issac's response:

 

We expected sharders to be more free with giving codes to one another. It says right on the card that they can. We hadn't anticipated that some fans would be a bit overzealous in protecting the codes. We wanted people to be able to just PM someone else and be able to get a non-unique code for Steelhunt access. It was an experiment that we'll need to tweak for next time around. This feedback is useful because we're just kind of figuring it out as we go.

and (emphasis added)

So, without further ado, here's a non-unique code for you. [redacted] Copy-paste it into the code slot, fill out the captcha, and you should be able to get into the site. Feel free to share this with other Sharders, just in a non-public way--ie. feel free to text it, PM it, or whatever. Just don't post publicly, but it if someone asks, feel free to share it. 

 

I don't want to be a troll or come off as critical of the staff here; I know they are just doing their best to uphold the wishes of Team Sanderson. However, it seems to me that this suggests the site policy of forbidding people from requesting codes should maybe be relaxed.

[Shardlet]

I'm not saying Brandon has to release these stuff. My question was not rhetorical. I honestly don't understand why what was released was released. So I asked if there was something I was missing.

 

 

You are not missing anything.  When Steelhunt was announced, Brandon said it would include artwork.  While the first four releases were chapters, we should expect that several of the ten goodies willn not be.  Remember, there are more people than Sharders that are participating in Steelhunt.  It is supposed to be neat stuff rather than just exciting info.

[Chaos]

We will also have a scavenger hunt very soon in the site for a code, and it is going to be good. Just taking a while to coordinate with Mi'ch (our schedules seem diametrically opposed). So anyone who needs a code will be able to find it.

That said I do kind of agree with the criticism of the Steelhunt.

[askthepaperclip]

That sounds awesome! I would offer to help set it up if needed, but am leaving for China on business tomorrow and will be MIA for a week. Hopefully I don't miss it! :-/

 

Also, I'm not a fan of "open letters" which is why I didn't post what I wrote to TS. That said, if anyone is curious, let me know and I will send it to you via PM.

Edited October 18, 2013 by askthepaperclip

[Havoc]

FYI, I sent an email to Team Sanderson expressing my thoughts on the Steelhunt. Here are a few excerpts from Issac's response:

 

and (emphasis added)

 

I don't want to be a troll or come off as critical of the staff here; I know they are just doing their best to uphold the wishes of Team Sanderson. However, it seems to me that this suggests the site policy of forbidding people from requesting codes should maybe be relaxed.

 

I agree completely with this. Everything public from Team Sanderson has encouraged sharing codes, so long as sharing remains person-to-person.

 

I wouldn't normally have access to Steelhunt codes, and I'd be pretty pissed at being left out. Thankfully, there was a nice person on Reddit who decided to share.

 

The way I see it, Team Sanderson expect that anyone who's even moderately active on any online community would get access to a code, eliminating any problems. To me, the current situation is the fault of over-enthusiastic moderators here, not Team Sanderson. The excerpts released could have let to some very interesting discussion, as can be seen on Reddit.

[Chaos]

Considering the amount of crap people get for discussing things that are not available for everyone (and that definitely has made people upset, historically)... that's why we do that. And it is also the reason why there is not discussion on unpublished material.

Though there plenty who want the hints, there are others who get upset that they can't read the stuff. And since we can't post what is in the Steelhunt, I kind of feel this is a better way, though I really want to have discussion on that stuff.

So I understand the annoyance at the moderation team over it, Havoc. But seriously we have had people leave the site over conflict about things like this. I don't think this would happen with Steelhunt stuff, but I legitimately worry about this a *lot*, and I think I can speak for all the staff on that that we worry about this sort of thing. Does that make sense?

(That said, I certainly don't LIKE that we need to do it this way, but I hope this explanation at least helps in consoling the crappiness of it.)

[Chaos]

Idea: once our scavenger hunt thing goes up, maybe we can put up a Steelhunt forum for this? I'd need to talk to Josh and Mi'ch about this, but I'd feel better about it if anyone on the site can theoretically get a code, you know?

So uh we should probably get on that XD

Also I wasn't aware that we explicitly banned people requesting codes here, just discussion... I will check with Josh and Mi'ch, okay?

[askthepaperclip]

Idea: once our scavenger hunt thing goes up, maybe we can put up a Steelhunt forum for this? I'd need to talk to Josh and Mi'ch about this, but I'd feel better about it if anyone on the site can theoretically get a code, you know?

 

As Miss Bennet said, Yes! A thousand times, Yes!!!

 

Also, from the Spoiler warning:

We have also decided that asking random people for a code is against the spirit of the rules, and will not be allowed.  If you gain a code, and would like to share it with someone, YOU may send it to THEM, but they cannot ask you for it, and you can't post to the forums in general that you have one.

That was the thing that made Baby Jesus cry, IMHO 

Edited October 18, 2013 by askthepaperclip

[Havoc]

Considering the amount of crap people get for discussing things that are not available for everyone (and that definitely has made people upset, historically)... that's why we do that. And it is also the reason why there is not discussion on unpublished material.

Though there plenty who want the hints, there are others who get upset that they can't read the stuff. And since we can't post what is in the Steelhunt, I kind of feel this is a better way, though I really want to have discussion on that stuff.

So I understand the annoyance at the moderation team over it, Havoc. But seriously we have had people leave the site over conflict about things like this. I don't think this would happen with Steelhunt stuff, but I legitimately worry about this a *lot*, and I think I can speak for all the staff on that that we worry about this sort of thing. Does that make sense?

(That said, I certainly don't LIKE that we need to do it this way, but I hope this explanation at least helps in consoling the crappiness of it.)

 

Thanks for the balanced reply Chaos. TBH, I'm more annoyed about codes not being shared than about the lack of discussion. One idea that might have worked (and maybe still could) would be to simply have a thread where anyone with a code could post that they had a code and would share it with the first X people to PM them. Pretty soon everyone who wanted would get a code, and we could have open discussions.

 

There's also the somewhat related idea of having a separate forum to discuss Steelhunt spoilers, which readers would need to specifically request access too. Perhaps that might lead to too much of an administrative overhead.

 

In any case, it's your forum and you get to make the decisions you're comfortable with. You're clearly doing something right, given that this community is the best place to discuss Sanderson's works.

[Argent]

I thought about turning my code in a matrix of math problems and just publish them openly...

[firstRainbowRose]

I may have been a little bit over enthusiastic in making the rules for the site.  However, a few things to realize.  First, the request for codes were starting to become a spam problem.  If you look through earlier pages in this very topic you'll see it turned into people just asking for the code.  (Some people, I believe, even going so far as to register an account strictly to ask for a code.  I don't think they've posted outside of the one post, but I could be wrong about that one.)  We also had multiple topics each day popping up where the entire point was to beg for a code.  That isn't in the spirit of the hunt.

 

Also, please be aware that in the future, we would prefer that if you have a problem with the site you let us admins know before you go to Brandon.  While we are the official fan site, and we are the official forums, we are also our own site.  Sometimes we will make rules that might not be the exact same as what Brandon has said.  But we are always happy to explain why we've made a choice if you ask!

[Shardlet]

It seems like it has worked out well in the long run.  It appears that most everyone who is fairly active here has a code.  I am sure that there are those out there who desire a code still.  But, I have approached a few people in order to share my code and everyone I talked to already had one.  I agree with Rainbow that it rapidly turned into a beggars banquet of sorts.  I think code requests could be handled much better than a post saying 'please give me a code'.  Surely most of us are clever enough express that we desire a code without directly asking for one from the general populus. 

[Havoc]

With something like code requests, I believe that channeling is a lot more effective than an outright ban. A legitimate way to share codes might be people posting that they have a code and others PMing them.

 

The bit I'd like more clarity on is posts like this:

I have got an idea that I want to run past Brandon and the other admins to see if maybe we can come to a happy medium for this.  For now, I am going to say do not post codes.  There will be some hard codes to find, and I would encourage everyone to talk together to try and find these codes, but once the code has been found do not post it to the forums.  We'll update you when we figure out otherwise.

 

this

I can understand your frustration karaokeang.  I do want to assure you that we admins are working on a solution to the problem, and hopefully will be able to share the new shortly.  (We're just wating to hear from Team Sanderson about the idea, and get the green light).

 

I did also want to let you know that you are correct about how the codes work.  However, it seems like most of the posts lately are people asking for codes, and Brandon has said specifically he wants this to be a little bit more of a challenge for people to get the information.  Keeping with that request, asking for a code from someone you may not have noticed before isn't what he was wanting.

 

and this:

We, the staff, have decided that due to the nature of the Steelhunt, and the information provided, we will not allow discussions of the information revealed at this time.

 

It is not fair to those who may not have a friend within the forums to taunt them with information that they do not have access to.

 

We have also decided that asking random people for a code is against the spirit of the rules, and will not be allowed.  If you gain a code, and would like to share it with someone, YOU may send it to THEM, but they cannot ask you for it, and you can't post to the forums in general that you have one.

 

These rules may change as plans are put into action, and as soon as we have more information about what we are working on we will let you know.

 

Please be aware that any posts after this that do not follow these rules will be hidden.  We thank you for your understanding.

 

Taken together, they imply that Peter or Brandon have endorsed the restrictive policies, which completely contradicts what is on the official Steelhunt page:

If you find a code, as I say above, you can share it with others—but please don’t post it online in an open way. You can direct message it to people, text it to people, or post it on private forums. But if you broadcast it on Twitter/Facebook, etc. we’ll have to disable it.

 

and Isaac's email to askthepaperclip quoted above:

We expected sharders to be more free with giving codes to one another. It says right on the card that they can. We hadn't anticipated that some fans would be a bit overzealous in protecting the codes. We wanted people to be able to just PM someone else and be able to get a non-unique code for Steelhunt access. It was an experiment that we'll need to tweak for next time around. This feedback is useful because we're just kind of figuring it out as we go.

So, without further ado, here's a non-unique code for you. [redacted] Copy-paste it into the code slot, fill out the captcha, and you should be able to get into the site. Feel free to share this with other Sharders, just in a non-public way--ie. feel free to text it, PM it, or whatever. Just don't post publicly, but it if someone asks, feel free to share it.

 

It seems a bit disingenuous to originally claim that Brandon is the reason for all the secrecy, and then claim that it's an independent 17th Shard rule once Team Sanderson starts communicating directly.

[Mailliw73]

ShardlEt aND rose COvereD it prEtty well, i Perceive. LEts be smArt and not beggarS. Especially rudely.

[Havoc]

Pretty well hidden request Mailliw73. Subtle, yEt sufficieNT.

[Mailliw73]

THAt was the poiNt. i'm glad you caught it. KidS, take notes.

[askthepaperclip]

To be clear, I did NOT contact Brandon to complain about 17th shard or its policies. That was not my intention or the content of my letter. I wrote to TS to express my personal reservations about the hunt as a whole. I'm very sorry if my earlier post implied otherwise. Hugs all around? :-)

[hoser]

I respect Brandon wanting to control his content. 

I like Brandon making extra content available.

The Steelhunt, as designed, was always unfair and exclusionary.

People asking for what they want is a good and healthy thing.

People asking for codes was completely compatible with the rules of the Steelhunt. 

I feel very grateful for the people and the work that developed this fantastic site.

I honor the desire to protect Brandon's intent

I can only imagine the difficulty of interpreting Brandon's intent wrt the site.

People signing up to ask for a code is a good thing for the site.

If multiple topics popping up to ask for the codes is the problem, then a solution is to ask that all requests for codes go into a single topic. 

 

TL;DR: Asking for codes openly is a good thing and fixes the main problems with the Steelhunt, forbidding the asking for codes was a bad choice of the site administration

 

P.S. I found the above sequence more offensive than an open request would have been. 

 

Edit: add site appreciation

Edited October 18, 2013 by hoser

[Natans]

THAt was the poiNt. i'm glad you caught it. KidS, take notes.

 

Someone give this man a internet cookie. LOL

[Chaos]

I would tend to agree with those asking for a single topic for code requests (but that is my own personal opinion which does not reflect the staff as a whole).

But, you'll be able to grab a code soon through the scavenger hunt, okay? Sooo we'll fix it and it will all be good. It's going to be a little moot shortly.

(I am certainly being persuaded that the Steelhunt was too exclusionary, so critics, I agree with you. I want everyone to see these things.)

[Shardlet]

The trouble I see with having a devoted thread for steelhunt code stuff is that such a thread is only half a breath away from simply posting a code directly.  That sort of thread is really essentially just saying 'step right up and get your code'.  How is that fun?  Steelhunt is far from done.  ~200 of ~2000 codes have been entered.  I am sure that there will be plenty of opportunities (such as the planned scavenger hunt) as the Steelhunt progresses for everyone to get a code and be able to participate.  Since there is no open theorizing on Steelhunt info, it is not like anyone is missing out on info.  They may simply have to wait a bit to get it.  Brandon said that everything in Steelhunt will be made generally available after Steelhunt is done.  Are people upset because they can't play or are they upset because they don't have access right now? 

 

If you don't yet have a code, be patient.  I know it can be frustrating when so many people are producing ideas which tease about info from Steelhunt.  This is why there is a ban on posting Steelhunt info.  It is encumbant upon everyone who has a code to be responsible and thoughtful towards everyone who does not yet have a code.  Think how frustrated you would be if you didn't have a code and you were reading some of the posts that have been coming out.  Even when info is not being directly disclosed, many posts are basically winking at everyone else and giving knowing looks.  I believe that this is one of the chief sources of frustration for those who do not yet have a code or those who only recently got a code.  Please, please, please, use restraint when posting and refrain from not only posting Steehunt info but also resist the temptation to post theories or alterations of thoeries even partially based on this info.

 

There are, and will be more, upcoming opportunities for people (including non-US fans) to get codes.  I expect that Team Sanderson will have upcoming ways to get a code and I am sure that 17S will have more (in addition to the upcoming scavenger hunt) upcoming opportunities to get a code and to have a good time doing it.  Nobody need be excluded.  Try to take the event for what it was intended to be.  Fun.  True, most of the codes so far have been available through signings.  But the tour is done now.  Team Sanderson, I'm sure, has plans in place on how to distribute the remaining codes.  Again, please be patient.  If you have a code, offer it (by PM) to your friends here or to someone who has made a great post or come up with a great idea.  Do what you can to make it fun for everyone.

[Argent]

Pity. I was hoping to create a mini-contest of my own where I would share the code I got...

[Djerf]

While it is frustrating being left out because of where one live or whatever reason, most of us surly must be getting used to it. I mean, I don't ever plan om owning a signed copy of any literature let alone  going to a signing unless I've got the time, money and inclination to cross at least a few borders.

In the light of this I still have to say that the staff took the right approach to the steelhunt in trying to preserve the spirit of the hunt because this kind of thing is something Brandon enjoys doing but the moment it stops being fun he will stop doing it and all of us will suffer for it! Consider also that firstRainbowRose let us know early on that arrangements were made to provide the information to those of us that for whatever reason couldn't get it by our self.

Now information about the scavengerhunt itself could probably have been handled in a better way, by slowly building anticipation for it and by giving regular updates or whatever. But just as Brandon isn't our b*tch neither are anyone on the 17thShard staff who all do what they do because they enjoy it!

 

All in all I think that you have done a great job whit this and while there's room for improvements nothing is perfect! =)

 

[Binnut]

If you don't yet have a code, be patient.  I know it can be frustrating when so many people are producing ideas which tease about info from Steelhunt.  This is why there is a ban on posting Steelhunt info.  It is encumbant upon everyone who has a code to be responsible and thoughtful towards everyone who does not yet have a code.  Think how frustrated you would be if you didn't have a code and you were reading some of the posts that have been coming out.  Even when info is not being directly disclosed, many posts are basically winking at everyone else and giving knowing looks.  I believe that this is one of the chief sources of frustration for those who do not yet have a code or those who only recently got a code.  Please, please, please, use restraint when posting and refrain from not only posting Steehunt info but also resist the temptation to post theories or alterations of thoeries even partially based on this info.

 

Shardlet is very correct on that its the all these little snippets and ideas that come from the steelhunt that make it unbearable to be without a code.

I have been able to read a lot of things that makes it possible to guess some more and reconstruct a part of what is in the steelhunt. And then you want  more, you want details! It is very frustrating.

[Shardlet]

Pity. I was hoping to create a mini-contest of my own where I would share the code I got...

 

Do it Argent!  That would be fabulous and certainly add to the fun of the Steelhunt.