Kingkiller Chronicle

[little wilson]

I absolutely loved TNotW the first time I read it. Then with WMF, I thought it was really good, but it dragged in places--particularly with Felurian. Then I reread it. And I realized the Felurian part wasn't nearly as drawn out as I'd initially thought it was, after the first read-through. I almost love it as much as TNotW. The trilogy is brilliant thus far, and I really can't wait to read Doors of Stone. Regardless of how long it takes him to finish it or how long it is.

My thoughts on a second trilogy. A large part of me says "heck yes!" and the smaller part of me goes "But....it takes him about 4 years to write a book. And I love this story, and I want it all NOW!".....but I've always been convinced that the story of how Kote becomes Kvothe again, and the aftermath of telling this story to the Chronicler (particularly with the Chandrian), is going to be at least another 800 pages. And with how much that has to happen to show how Kvothe initially turns into Kote? Yeah, there's no way he can fit all that (Kvothe=Kote, Kote+dealing with story aftermath=Kvothe)into one book. Not. Possible.

Also, Netalia Lackless. Yes. I'm absolutely onboard with this. I'm also absolutely onboard with Kvothe killing the king, thereby putting Ambrose on the throne. For a while, I thought it would be Ambrose he kills, but I like the irony of this much more. And it's a little (read: a lot) more appropriate for the role that Ambrose tends to take in Kvothe's life.

[Gamma Fiend]

So I finished Wise Man's Fear sometime last week.... and I immediately went out and got Name of the Wind from the library again.

This series was an immediate re-read. It is that good.

And while I will want to come back here and put in a fully detailed write-up of the books, my reactions, and my theories... for now I will just suffice to say this:

When Kvothe first loses his Father's Lute, in Tarbean. The first night he plays one again, on the trip to Imre with the first time he met Denna. Did anybody here NOT cry after reading that passage?

Or when he plays the "Lay of sir Savien Traliard" at the Eolian, that part has some of them "Deep feels".
It is very odd for an author to get an emotional reaction from me so early on in the series.

Like, in wheel of Time, I didn't get attached to the characters until the later books. You know, after you spend a couple hundred thousand words and multiple books with them. But Kvothe, that's only a few hundred pages in to this point.

And I already feel for this character. I have an emotional attachment to him and his struggles. It's extremely powerful writing and I just appreciate it so damnation much.

[Swimmingly]

I wonder if Kote is really going to become Kvothe again - maybe the story is going to be more of a "passing of the torch" kind of thing, with Chronicler turning into a legend in his own right - a leader rather than a hero, or even a philosopher who guides.

[GreyPilgrim]

That would be cool... Never though of that before. Chronicler definitely has the potential to do a lot more than his character does.

I mostly wonder how in the world Rothfuss is going to give us any closure in The Doors of Stone. There is so much left to do.

I am kind of confused as to where he is going with it all. He has said on several occasions that he will write more books in the world, but will they star Kvothe? The present world seems so screwed up that it could hold its own series to fix. And, with so much to tie up in Kvothe's past, there is no way Day 3 can tie up the present as well.

[Swimmingly]

Remember, Kvothe (Kote?) is still fairly young. The things that turn the world into the haunted mess that it is have probably been foreshadowed from a totally different direction than we expected already.

[Argent]

It would be interesting if we don't get closure - the war is still going on, after all. Maybe (most of) the Chandrian are still kicking. Maybe Heliax is still imprisoned - or worse, free to roam the world. But honestly, I doubt Rothfuss - or anyone - can pull it off in a way that doesn't break his promise to the readers. Everything you read between Kote's lines screams that he is going to turn into Kvothe again and kick some major butt. I would be unhappy with the conclusion of the series if he doesn't at least start on that path. It would be original, yes. But it would also be massively dissatisfying. 

[Swimmingly]

You say that, but Rothfuss.

[GreyPilgrim]

All true. Maybe we will just get a true sequel series--à la Stormlight cycle 2, or at least how I envision it being.

It could also end in an extremely literary way, in which Kvothe basically says he will save the world and we never find out how.

No matter what happens, Day 3 must end with a Silence of Three Parts epilogue, and the line, "It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die." I will cry if that is not the last line, and I will cry if it is. That is one of the best lines ever written in a piece of fiction. Hands-down.

Edited February 11, 2014 by GreyPilgrim

[Windrunner]

It would be interesting if we don't get closure - the war is still going on, after all. Maybe (most of) the Chandrian are still kicking. Maybe Heliax is still imprisoned - or worse, free to roam the world. But honestly, I doubt Rothfuss - or anyone - can pull it off in a way that doesn't break his promise to the readers. Everything you read between Kote's lines screams that he is going to turn into Kvothe again and kick some major butt. I would be unhappy with the conclusion of the series if he doesn't at least start on that path. It would be original, yes. But it would also be massively dissatisfying. 

Really? Because every impression that I get from it leads me to believe that Kote will die in the end of the cycle, his story finally told. And I would be sad, but I wouldn't be surprised. The series has never seemed like it's anything other than a tragedy to me.

[GreyPilgrim]

Well the end of Kvothe's past is definitely a tragedy. That goes without saying. But I do not believe that Kote's story is going to be such a tragedy. It is true that the fact that he is waiting to die sounds tragic, but not necessarily.

Something has to happen for him to be able to die. He is waiting for something, be it old age or whatever. But he is not ready yet.

Even if Kote dies at the end, it is not necessarily tragic. At least not in the classical sense. As I say above, I want it to end with him still waiting to die. I want to see him save the world and still want to die.

[Gamma Fiend]

Well Kote could totally die at the end. Kvothe, however... he could still do something.

Kote is, for all purposes, a completely different person. (yeah,he is still Kvothe, technically, but we know names are important. So Kote might be waiting to die, i.e., he becomes Kvothe again.)

and the Chronicler, I picked up in the re-read, it right away mentions his name as Devan Lochese.
Isn't that some offshoot, but still connected to the Lockless (or Lackless?) family, somehow?

This family seems pretty important, somehow.

Also, here's some evidence to Denna having gone to the Fae at some point maybe - Bast mentions he saw her once when Kvothe tries to describe her the first time at the Eolian. And I'm pretty certain we know Bast is from the Fae.
now it's entirely possible Bast saw her some other time, since we don't know much about him, like when he left the Fae and when/why he is being taught by Kvothe, but there's still some possibility him having seen her in the Fae somewhere.

[Bloodfalcon]

?? Bast lays it on pretty thick that his goal is to convert Kote to Kvothe before the end of the story. So far he has shown he has real ways of getting things done. Of course, there is also more of the story to tell. Perhaps Bast will learn that Kote is actually best.... doubt it. 

[GreyPilgrim]

So is everyone excited for the Auri novella Rothfuss has been working on recently? I'm not nearly as excited for it as I am for Day 3, but it should help in the meantime.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

So is everyone excited for the Auri novella Rothfuss has been working on recently? I'm not nearly as excited for it as I am for Day 3, but it should help in the meantime.

I wasn't aware of it before but now I'm excited. Auri is one of the most interesting characters in the series. 

[GreyPilgrim]

I imagine Auri's past must hold numerous secrets. Rothfuss has mentioned it a few times on his blog recently, and it sounds exciting. He actually gave away a beta reading of it as part of his charity, Worldbuilders.

[Gamma Fiend]

I love Auri! She is probably one of my favorite characters from any story. She is just so adorable and funny and mysterious.

Rothfuss has been doing a real great job of writing her, and I am super-psyched for the novella of her. I want to learn more about Auri, dangit!

[Argent]

I imagine Auri's past must hold numerous secrets. Rothfuss has mentioned it a few times on his blog recently, and it sounds exciting. He actually gave away a beta reading of it as part of his charity, Worldbuilders.

 

Which finally got me to donate... 

[+Aletus]

Auri is the single biggest heartbreak from any book I have ever read - you know - those scenes that make you feel horrifyingly uncomfortable. 

 

Because no matter what happened in her past, she may be somewhat self sufficient, but she sort of relies on Kvothe, and he (for whatever reason) is no longer taking care of her. 

 

It kind of hit me hard when I was rereading Wise Man's Fear and she climbs in his window after the blumb-bob. 

[Argent]

You know, I was a happier man not been consciously aware that Kvothe, being Kote and all, is no longer there for her. 

[Shards of Mist]

I just found these books.  Don't know why I neglected them before, but almost wish I would've neglected them a few years longer so I wouldn't have to wait for the story to wrap up.

 

I also see no possible scenario where the events of the the current timeline can be wrapped up in the next book.  Obviously the story of Kvothe's life up to the present will be wrapped up, but I envision at least another trilogy, if not more, before the world is at peace and The Chandrian are destroyed.

 

Speaking of the Chandrian, it is mentioned at the beginning of The Name of the Wind that there is a new Chandrian.  A new Chandrian would imply that the old Chandrian was dead.  I believe Kvothe killed Cinder.  This is why he is at the Inn.  He is in hiding IMO.  The Chandrian are looking for him. 

 

It also strikes me that his Inn is an actual Waystone.  There is a point in the story where he gets a sense of satisfaction from looking at the feat of engineering his fireplace is.  A fireplace that runs the height of the inn, both upstairs and on the main level.  We've also heard, and seen a small amount of evidence, that the Chandrian won't go near a Waystone.  So it appears, at least IMO, that Kvothe is hiding beneath a Waystone.

 

Obviously there's a lot of speculation about him changing his name and what that means, but as far as why he's at the Inn, this is my personal theory.

[Shards of Mist]

You know, I was a happier man not been consciously aware that Kvothe, being Kote and all, is no longer there for her. 

 

I agree.  Auri is my favorite character in this book.  She is so innocent and yet so mysterious at the same time.  She is the one character that seems to bring out Kvothe's good nature at all times.  When he's with her there is never any hint of the anger deep within him.  It's amazing to think she wasn't originally in the book as there's so much depth and mystery to her character.  I hate thinking about where she's at now, because knowing the tragedy of the book and all the foreshadowing it scares me to do so.

[+Aletus]

It really is sort of primally terrifying. 

Auri is (and I hate to say it) my absolute favorite character from any fiction, book, movie, comic, or even song. 

She comes in little gusts of wind, a few paragraphs at a time - but I look forward to each moment like no other. 

 

I think it's pat's best quality as a writer. That one, tiny, singular paragraph that stands out from an entire chapter, or even half of a book. I hate to say that the rest is just filler - because it's not. He's a phenomenal author and every word is amazing, but there are those moments - 

 

Then I played the song that hides in the center of me. That wordless music that moves through the secret places in my heart. I played it carefully, strumming it slow and low into the dark stillness of the night. I would like to say it is a happy song, that it is sweet and bright, but it is not.

 

With Brandon or the Robert Jordan/Brandon Hybrid - I HUNGRILY awaited each new release, because of how much I loved the story, the intricate nature, and the characters. With Rothfuss, I am strangely patient - trusting that he will eventually produce the most amazing conclusion I could ever hope for. 

[Argent]

With Brandon or the Robert Jordan/Brandon Hybrid - I HUNGRILY awaited each new release, because of how much I loved the story, the intricate nature, and the characters. With Rothfuss, I am strangely patient - trusting that he will eventually produce the most amazing conclusion I could ever hope for. 

 

Good call. It's a different kind of artistry. 

[Guest Shash]

His readers and fans, however, should feel guilty when he spends an hour writing for them instead of playing with his kid, so it balances out.

I'll never hold family time against a man. What rustles my jimmies is the ridiculous amount of time and energy he pours into everything but his writing. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way, but are hesitant to talk about it because his core fan base has a tenancy to shame anyone who even obliquely mentions book three. Again, I understand that he has his family. But he spends at least a few months each year doing his Worldbuilders charity. He's constantly posting about side projects that he's picking up. In fact, based off his blog posts, he's eager and enthusiastic to pretty much anything besides book three. So when he takes on enough side projects to constitute a full time job and people ask, politely, for an update, his stance is, 'Cut me a break, I barely see my kid.'

I've never seen such a display of what I think of as Group Stockholm Syndrome than the way his fan base viciously attacks anyone asking for an update. Yes, I made that mistake once and got burned so bad I'll never do it again. I said something to the effect of, "I haven't seen status updates for book three on this blog in about a year, are there other sources like interviews where he talks about it?" BOOM instant hate. His fans trip over themselves in their eagerness to bring low anyone who would dare ask that question. All because, presumably, they want an " 'atta boy" from Rothfuss.

He was like two years late on his scheduled release for Book Two; fine, whatever. At least he was posting consistent updates. Now, rather than buckle down and pump out Book Three in a reasonable amount of time, he's burdening himself with dozens of other obligations (which, if I was an publisher who gave him a contract, I would be angry about), and refusing to so much as mention progress.

And with all that, he still writes absolutely lovely books.

The only thing I don't like is how Kvothe is a classic Alpha Male in EVERY aspect except women. In that sense, he's a complete beta; a classic White Knight. Disgusting. That's probably because Rothfuss is a product of his society. A society that systematically emasculates men and convinces everyone that that's normal behavior. Now masculinity has been reduced to a female-approved 'trend' that equates to a fashion statement. Funny how the way society influences you will manifest in your writing no matter how much care you take to separate yourself from it when writing a character.

(Sorry for all the discontent. I probably could have expressed all my concerns without all the emotional rhetoric, but I feel strongly about it so I'll leave it as is.)

NOTE: @Swimmingly; @Moogle - I am not criticizing either of you directly, I quoted you both only because you briefly touched on something I wanted to talk about anyway.

EDIT: I failed to quote Moogle's post. I guess a quote of a quote doesn't show up? I'll fix it later. Maybe.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Shash

[Swimmingly]

Funny, I always got the impression that Kvothe was a bit of a dick with a frantic White Knight disorder when it came to women, partly as a way to prove himself right. The women range from weak to strong to manipulative bitches, but Kvothe is tragically blind to all that. I always saw Kvothe as an incredibly flawed character (flawed as a person, not a flawed as in badly-written), to the point that I would shirk entirely from writing him. Rothfuss can still get us to empathise with him, though, which is equally remarkable.