Kingkiller Chronicle

[Alliare]

Oh, I got another 'might-be' clue pointing about Kvothe's mother being Netalia Lackless. Remember, in The Name of the Wind, when she surprises Kvothe singing a not-too-kind song? Well, that song was about a 'Lady Lackless', and she gets really pissed off. And, later, she sends him in some errand for him to make up to 'Lady Lackless and herself'. She even says it's not kind to say that kind of things because Lady Lackless is 'a real person', and probably, I guess, a person she doesn't want to hear being made fun of.

[Argent]

Yea, I wondered whether I should that to the list of arguments, but it seemed like the shabbiest one of them all, so I decided to keep the size a little down and leave it out.

[Ryan]

One of my favorite things about these books is the storytelling craft on display. Themes, symbols, and even insignificant things echo repeatedly throughout the series. A simple example: when Kvothe demonstrates his arrow catch to Kilvin, he has trouble naming it, and remarks,

"Delivari had it easy, Master Kilvin,” I said. “He just made a better axle and stuck his name on it. I can’t very well call this ‘the Kvothe.’ ”

--The Wise Man's Fear (p. 320)

And then in the end what is it called by Elodin? "The Bloodless", which is one of the names people have given Kvothe. These sorts of things are all over the place in these books, and I can't remember any other examples off the top of my head. It actually makes me wish I'd taken notes so that I could easily find the ones I've noticed again. It's done so subtly that you have to be paying attention to notice it.

What makes this most impressive to me is that I know that it's the result of years of painstaking revision. I don't know, if I were an author, if I would be willing to put in that kind of effort for these lovely details.

[Catalyst21]

Pat's Dad has cancer (again) He just posted (after a two month silence.)

For those that are interested:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/

[Captain Cosmere]

I was extremely saddened to hear the news about Pat's father. I hope that Pat and his dad can spend as much time together as possible in the coming months and (hopefully)years.

On another note, one complaint that I have heard repeatedly about The Wise Man's Fear is its length. And it is big, no doubt. Many people have stated, especially on the hoity-toity review sites, that it could have done with quite a bit more more editing (imagine that phrase said with a very fussy, pretentious British accent.) I don't think they get it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I do wonder if the people who think the book should have been edited to be shorter understand the vast wealth of absolutely gorgeous writing that we have received thus far. Pat's writing style, at least as demonstrated to this point, does not allow for short, light reads. His choice of specific words and phrases, his use of humor, his mysterious allusions to past and future events, absolutely require a larger page count and, thus, a larger attention span. Which is probably a large part of the problem for many readers.

Perhaps at the end of this series, we'll see that we have read more into things than we should have. Perhaps we'll see apparently significant events that lead nowhere. But I doubt it. Truthfully, I don't see how Pat can wrap everything up in just one more book, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind. I've rarely if ever found an author that is such a complete joy to read. I couldn't tell you of one word that should have been cut from The Wise Man's Fear. And I hope that Pat's editors continue to resist the pressure to shorten his books. A story as superlative as Kvothe's simply takes time to tell properly. I look forward to hearing it all. If that means that I need a cart to get the last book out of the store, then so be it.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Captain Cosmere

[Catalyst21]

Truthfully, I don't see how Pat can wrap everything up in just one more book, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

I don't expect him to wrap it up in one more book, and have never expected it to be done in 3 books. Lets look at the name of the books:

The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 1, Name of the wind

The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 2, Wise Mans Fear

The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 3, Doors of Stone

In day 1 Kvothe says it will take 3 days to tell his story. I can see that happening. I still believe that Pat can wrap that up by the end of Day 3. But that only brings the story up to the "present" time. There will still be the rest of the story, which I figure (read: hope) will be another trilogy. The first trilogy is the backstory.

Just my opinion...

[Catalyst21]

ok, so I never got involved in Pat's book's like I have with Brandon's. I've never trolled forums, looking for clues, and espousing ideas. Other than religiously reading Pat's blog (and highly recommending his books to anyone who will listen) I have had no interaction with his works other than his books, which I have read numerous times. This post officially changes that.

For Kvothes mother, I fully agree that she is Natalia Lackless, and there are some other clues that point to that that haven't been brought up here, but that's not what I want to talk about. I want to talk about the king that Kvothe kills. I want to postulate that the king Kvothe kills is....... Ambrose. Think about it, when Kvothe first meets Ambrose, Ambrose is about 24 positions away from the throne. By the end of book 2 he is about 14 positions away. I think that the king Kvothe kills with such fury that it shattered the flagstones such that they can't be repaired is Ambrose.

Thoughts? Comments?

[PeterAhlstrom]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

[Shivertongue]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

That is actually a theory that makes a lot of sense to me. It could also explain why Kvothe is doing what he is now - a great effort made to help backfiring, and just giving him the idea that it's not worth it.

I like this theory as well.

[Catalyst21]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

oooohhhhh, delicious irony..... I like it!

+1 for peter

Edited October 26, 2011 by Catalyst21

[PeterAhlstrom]

I didn't come up with it. I think I read it over on Westeros or Tor.com.

[Catalyst21]

I didn't come up with it. I think I read it over on Westeros or Tor.com.

you still get a point, I heard it from you

lol

[Captain Cosmere]

Catalyst21, you have a good idea there regarding the amount of books to finish the story. I never thought of that, but if it involves Pat writing more books in this world, sign me up.

Also, regarding your theory on Ambrose becoming king, I've seen that in a few places and I suppose it's possible. For some reason, though, something about it just strikes me as off. Don't know why. Isn't the king referred to as the Penitent King? Perhaps I have a hard time associating that name with Ambrose.

[Alliare]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Could be, but I think Ambrose would be too much of an antagonist if that happened. Too many things have already ocurred because of Ambrose. But that raises an interesting point: something Kvothe did ended up bringing worse consequences that the evil that was there before and that Kvothe killed.

Think. Kvothe is completely denying himself. I'm positive that his sympathy did not work when he tried because he cannot concentrate anymore to focus his Alar, he is distressed. And it would be the same reason he suddenly stopped fighting well against the soldiers/recruits and made a fool of himself. But then, he killed the Scrael. He feels that all he has done, in the end, has done more evil than good. But, in the end, he still can't help trying to protect people... or he hasn't been able to eliminate his old personality completely... yet.

Might be a mix of the two. That's my theory. I believe that his killing of the king, whoever he was, started the war. Ands that's the reason for he being so secluded, so humble. But, still, sometimes the old Kvote resurfaces again, and tries to do something to protect... because he feels guilty, terribly guilty. But his remorse is so great he thinks that, were he to do something openly, with his full power, the power he once had, it would only worsen the situation.

In a word: he is afraid.

[Catalyst21]

...

I could get behind this as well

[Serack]

To make my wife

Netalia Lackless.

This wins. I always figured this was who his mother was, but this is some awesome sleuthing for evidence. +1

And then in the end what is it called by Elodin? "The Bloodless", which is one of the names people have given Kvothe. These sorts of things are all over the place in these books, and I can't remember any other examples off the top of my head. It actually makes me wish I'd taken notes so that I could easily find the ones I've noticed again. It's done so subtly that you have to be paying attention to notice it.

What makes this most impressive to me is that I know that it's the result of years of painstaking revision. I don't know, if I were an author, if I would be willing to put in that kind of effort for these lovely details.

Apparently I wasn't paying enough attention because I missed that. Awesomeness.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Serack

[Catalyst21]

new blog post up

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/

[GREENMONSTA]

Happy to get involved in this thread. Read and really enjoyed both books. Egarly anticipating the next/final installment. I cant get over the use of music in this trilogy. I have never been a huge fan of music. Dont get me wrong, I like music but I never really need it. If I didnt hear music for a month I dont think I would even notice the absence. Reading these books made me feel like I needed music. Made me feel like I knew what it was like to be in love with music. I will leave the theorizing to everyone else until I have more time to catch up on the existing theories.

[Kelek]

Well, I just read these books last week. I agree with the assessments here. Here are a few of the things I took from the book.

Kvothe is of the Lackless line.

Naming is involved in the frame where Kvothe seems fundamentally different.

The door in the archives is connected with the Lackless thread.

There is something connecting the moon, the chandrian, and the Lackless.

Rough theories on my part, showing a reread is foretold in the near future.

[Argent]

Slightly offtopic, but I had to share this, and this is the most appropriate place outside of creating a new thread.

Just Patrick Rothfuss being a troll

[Flidan]

Well I'm not sure if anyone noticed this, but it's something that I picked up on one of my recent rereads of the series.

When we first meet our hero, he is Kote the innkeeper, who has changed his from Kvothe, not only that but he tells us that he picked this name because names are important. The exact words were "He had chosen the name carefully when he came to this place. He had taken a new name for most of the usual reasons, and for a few unusual ones as well, not the least of which was the fact that names were important to him".

This implies many things the biggest one being that he chose this particular name for particular reasons and that at least 2 of those reason are unusual. First I'd like to point out that "Kote" translates to "expect disaster".

[speaking to Kilvin]:“Do you know the saying ‘Chan Vaen edan Kote’?” I tried to puzzle it out. “Seven years... I don’t know Kote.”

“ ‘Expect disaster every seven years,’

It took me numerous reads before I caught that little piece of information.

Next I would like to bring to your attention the fact that Lanre changed his name to Alexel, and when he did this he gained power enough in naming to be as strong or stronger than Aleph (who spun the world out of the nameless void and gave everything a name) and Iax (who locked away the name of the moon).This implies that changing your name can drastically change things about you.

This brings me to my next point, that it is is possible to lock away a name. Kvothe even mentions that "The high king's name i written in a book of glass, hidden in a box of copper. And that box is locked away in a great iron chest..." which for some reason reminds me a great deal of Kvothes' Thrice Locked Chest. And even though he says while describing a fictional hero, there's always some truth in stories. We even hear of Iax locking away the name of the moon, sparking the creation war.

This all brings me to my theory that due to whatever happened in his past, Kvothe changed his name to "expect disaster"(Kote), one that he thought much more fitting, and locked his true name away in his chest. When he did this he lost all his great prowess in everything, and it causes everything he does now to end in disaster, as his name dictates he should expect.

This would explain why he is unable to perform sympathy, and why he suddenly couldn't fight off the two bandits with his Ketan. Judging by the description he was trying to perform the modified break lion that Celean had shown him, a moved that was designed to break the hold of a bigger, more powerful, opponent. Sure, you could explain the sympathy as him not being able to maintain the proper Alar, but that doesn't explain: Why he can't write his memoirs, Why he can't play music, and why he can't do Ketan. It also explains why he can't open a chest that he designed, even though he has the keys.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. And sorry for the disorganization. >.<

[DoDomDo]

What about these waystones dotted about everywhere on sheer mountainsides and river bottoms? Wilem finds a book saying there was a portal to the Fae realm made by two next to each other than one on top, and others say they are ancient trading markers. Personally, I think they show where the Chandrian have struck. I don't know why, and I have no proof. What are other suggestions?

[Cracknut]

Well I'm not sure if anyone noticed this, but it's something that I picked up on one of my recent rereads of the series.

When we first meet our hero, he is Kote the innkeeper, who has changed his from Kvothe, not only that but he tells us that he picked this name because names are important. The exact words were "He had chosen the name carefully when he came to this place. He had taken a new name for most of the usual reasons, and for a few unusual ones as well, not the least of which was the fact that names were important to him".

This implies many things the biggest one being that he chose this particular name for particular reasons and that at least 2 of those reason are unusual. First I'd like to point out that "Kote" translates to "expect disaster".

[speaking to Kilvin]:“Do you know the saying ‘Chan Vaen edan Kote’?” I tried to puzzle it out. “Seven years... I don’t know Kote.”

“ ‘Expect disaster every seven years,’

It took me numerous reads before I caught that little piece of information.

Next I would like to bring to your attention the fact that Lanre changed his name to Alexel, and when he did this he gained power enough in naming to be as strong or stronger than Aleph (who spun the world out of the nameless void and gave everything a name) and Iax (who locked away the name of the moon).This implies that changing your name can drastically change things about you.

This brings me to my next point, that it is is possible to lock away a name. Kvothe even mentions that "The high king's name i written in a book of glass, hidden in a box of copper. And that box is locked away in a great iron chest..." which for some reason reminds me a great deal of Kvothes' Thrice Locked Chest. And even though he says while describing a fictional hero, there's always some truth in stories. We even hear of Iax locking away the name of the moon, sparking the creation war.

This all brings me to my theory that due to whatever happened in his past, Kvothe changed his name to "expect disaster"(Kote), one that he thought much more fitting, and locked his true name away in his chest. When he did this he lost all his great prowess in everything, and it causes everything he does now to end in disaster, as his name dictates he should expect.

This would explain why he is unable to perform sympathy, and why he suddenly couldn't fight off the two bandits with his Ketan. Judging by the description he was trying to perform the modified break lion that Celean had shown him, a moved that was designed to break the hold of a bigger, more powerful, opponent. Sure, you could explain the sympathy as him not being able to maintain the proper Alar, but that doesn't explain: Why he can't write his memoirs, Why he can't play music, and why he can't do Ketan. It also explains why he can't open a chest that he designed, even though he has the keys.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. And sorry for the disorganization. >.<

I agree with you but I believe in another version:

He hasn't locked his name in that chest. He locked everything that connected him to Kvothe. His sword, cloak, rings and most importantly his lute(Maybe his name too but then I can't come up with any way he could open that chest). Then he changed his name to Kote because something bad happened to him after he talked to Cthaeh. Names are important and changing names is dangerous. When he changed name he lost all his abilities. Now there are several problems/facts:

1. Chest can't be opened without 'high level' naming skills.

2. Everything that can bring back old Kvothe and his naming skills are locked inside that chest(except music).

3. He can't learn naming anew because he changed name. Kvothe meant 'to know', thats why he learned everything so easily. Also he's new name can be making it even harder.

4. I think only way for Kote to wake up real Kvothe in himself is music. Thats why every book starts with Silence of Three parts and strongest silence is Kvothe's. Because he doesn't has music anymore.

Edited August 21, 2012 by 213

[JamesW]

http://misterkristof.../26/moar-loots/

So, I’m giving away signed hardback copies of THE NAME OF THE WIND andTHE WISE MAN’S FEAR. Not only are these puppies signed, they also contain100% bonafide spoilers about book 3 of the Kingkiller Chronicles, scrawled in Pat’s own bardic script right next to his signature. Yes, you read that right. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster strike me dead of screaming syphilis if I speak a lie. SPOILERS.

Edited August 26, 2012 by JamesW

[Salmakia]

I read 'The Name of the Wind' roughly four years ago during my first year at Uni. I absolutely loved it! I have always preferred the more concentrated stories which revolve around characters as opposed to political events, battles and/or epic journeys. Kvothe is absolutely fantastic and I really enjoyed reading about

how he survived on the streets, how he struggled but passed the exams to get into the academy, his conflicts with Ambrose, his attempts to see and impress Denna, his lute and his sneaking into the archives.

The magic system was also very unique and the science behind it seemed quite intricate. Keenly, I awaited the second instalment, 'Wise Man's Fear.'

WMF finally arrived during third year, which unfortunately was a very busy time. I read about half of the book before putting it aside to focus on work. I haven't picked it up since - but I will as soon as I finish Mistwalker!

Edited August 29, 2012 by Salmakia