ivoryblade Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) There has been evidence in WoR that Dalinar began bonding with the Stormfather before he said his oaths, such as when he felt bad about holding Taln’s Blade or when he recalls having once healed using Stormlight. However, when did the bonding process start? As far as I can see, the Stormfather was quite unwilling to accept Dalinar’s Words, so I find it hard to believe that he initiated the bond to begin with. When did the bonding begin, and why did it occur between Dalinar and the Stormfather? (I used to think that Dalinar demanded the bond with the Stormfather, but it seems that the bond had been forming before then.) EDIT: below are quotes evidencing that Dalinar bonded with the Stormfather before he said his oaths. Dalinar smiled grimly. "If possible. At least now I've got a way to fight that assassin, if he arrives. With all the Shardblades flying around lately, I figured having one myself made too much sense to ignore." He narrowed his eyes, turning eastward. "Even if it feels... wrong somehow to hold one. Strange, that. Why should it feel wrong? Perhaps I just miss my old Blade.” (WoR, chapter 76) He felt his wounds healing in a familiar way [after breathing in Stormlight]. He'd done this before, he sensed. On the battlefield earlier? His arm felt fine now, and the cut on his side barely ached anymore. (WoR, chapter 89) Edited August 30, 2015 by ivoryblade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascendant Warrior Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've been of the thinking that Dalinar forced the bond right at the end of WoR. I'd be interested to see your sources that swayed your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivoryblade Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've been of the thinking that Dalinar forced the bond right at the end of WoR. I'd be interested to see your sources that swayed your thinking. I updated my original post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchBade Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Those seem like such tacked on little additions, as if Brandon felt he needed to justify the immediate bonding and slipped them in at the last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Nightblood forms a sort of bond in order to speak to people in their heads. Maybe the bond was necessary for the visions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Ascendant Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Perhaps when Dalinar gets his first vision of the Stormfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivoryblade Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Nightblood forms a sort of bond in order to speak to people in their heads. Maybe the bond was necessary for the visions? But one of the commonly cited evidences of the Nahel bond is a distaste for Shardblades. Dalinar clearly did not feel any animosity toward his Blade. (And I don’t believe him giving Oathbringer to Sadeas was driven in part by that.) Meaning, the bond must have begun after tWoK. Edited August 30, 2015 by ivoryblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Ascendant Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hmm...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Dalinar has been using stormlight for years in order to heal his injuries beyond what was considered possible. The bond probably dates from years prior to WoK, but it was too weak for Dalinar to feel anything when yielding Oathbringer... However, he had no quarrel giving up his Blade at the end of WoK, better he felt relieved. Unbonding a Blade is supposed to be the hardest command to send, requiring a lot of concentration as well as a firm will. Dalinar did it easily for a Blade which has been his companion for 30 years. I feel this is a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 It's also entirely possible that one of the reasons there are so few Bondsmiths is that they have to choose their Spren, rather than the other way around. In which case Dalinar would be doing the normal thing for his order, and not having the beginnings of a bond with a Spren, he felt weird about the dead Shardblades, but didn't have that proto-bond to make him feel the full distaste. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Unbonding a Blade is supposed to be the hardest command to send, requiring a lot of concentration as well as a firm will. You are mistaken. You are speaking, I assume, of keeping your bonded Blade in the world when you let it go. The only other time we see a Blade actually unbound, it took a moment of effort from a random guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02ranger Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 About Dalinar unbonding his Blade, there was a lot of other stuff going on with him at the time, too. He'd been feeling disgusted with fighting, losing the Thrill, questioning nearly everything about his people's way of life, and had just seen a huge number of his soldiers killed due to Sadeas' betrayal. On top of that, he was saved by the "dregs" of society, who acted more honorably than most lighteyes. I think a big part of why he so easily gave up that Blade and was later disturbed holding another had more to do with his feelings about war and fighting than his upcoming bond with the Stormfather. I'm not saying that had nothing to do with it, but I think it was more his personal feelings than anything, just like it was Kaladin's personal feelings about that Blade that wouldn't allow him to take it when he'd won it. I don't remember enough about WoR right now to say for sure, but I don't "think" there was any real evidence that his upcoming bond with the Stormfather had affected him in any way until he actually bonded with him, with the possible exception of healing with stormlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Except you said yourself one way his bond affected him in WoK: the Thrill disgusted him. If Taravangian is right, the Thrill comes from Nergaul, an unmade, an unholy mix of super voidspren and anti-herald and what the Parshendi call "gods". Being repulsed by the Thrill, combined with Kaladin never having felt it in battle, points towards proto-radiants being protected from it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 It could be the other way around: the Thrill is a method (used by neargoul) to prevent proto-radiants from honorable behaviour in battle and to become full radiants. And Kaladin felt the thrill before; the place where it is discribed is his first fight with a staff against the boy i Hearthstone. Later he grow immune to the Thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) You are mistaken. You are speaking, I assume, of keeping your bonded Blade in the world when you let it go. The only other time we see a Blade actually unbound, it took a moment of effort from a random guy. WoR, p1072 Unbonding a Shardblade was supposed to be a difficult process, requiring concentration and touching its stone. Yet this one was severed from him in an instant. Dalinar does seem to think it is difficult... I have been looking for quote explicitly stating keeping your bonded Blade in the world is difficult in order to explain Adolin's trials with the command. I have found none as of yet, so if you do have one, I'd love to read it. We see plenty of characters dropping their bonded Blade in the world without any apparent difficulty, even Renarin. This particular command had me scratch my head for a while. As for him being used to draw in stormlight... WoR p1073 He felt his wound healing in a familiar way. He'd done this before, he sensed. On the battlefield earlier? Edited August 30, 2015 by maxal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02ranger Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Except you said yourself one way his bond affected him in WoK: the Thrill disgusted him. If Taravangian is right, the Thrill comes from Nergaul, an unmade, an unholy mix of super voidspren and anti-herald and what the Parshendi call "gods". Being repulsed by the Thrill, combined with Kaladin never having felt it in battle, points towards proto-radiants being protected from it. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a bond, though. That could have been a side-effect of the visions he was getting or simply his concscience overcoming the Thrill. When he made a concious effort to continue the fight, he was able to regain the Thrill that first time. If we were talking about Kaladin and his bond with Syl I'd be a little more receptive to the idea of early effects from it since she sought him out before he ever knew about her, but in the case of Dalinar he had to practically force the Stormfather to bond with him. I think the more likely scenario is that his visions from Honor caused him to start changing in ways that might normally have been delayed until he bonded the Stormfather. Why would he be affected by a bond that hasn't even occurred yet? That's the big question for me, I guess, because there's not really anything that shows the other Radiants were affected by their bonds before forming them. They were affected before they were aware of them, but Dalinar is a special case since he sought out his own spren and not the other way around, so his bond and his awareness of said bond started at the same time. As for the healing quote, I asked earlier but it likely got passed over. Wasn't that right after the battle with the Parshendi? If I'm remembering correctly, that reads more like he's thinking back to something he did during that battle. It doesn't sound like he's thinking of times he's healed himself in the distant past. Is it possible his visions started to change him physically, too? Preparing him to absorb Stormlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Quotes when I'm at my computer. The guy Adolin beat took a second and a touch through shardplate to dissolve his bond. When Dalinar gave up Oathbringer, we see it from Kaladons perspective but he doesn't even seem to touch the gem. Curious as to the discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Quotes when I'm at my computer. The guy Adolin beat took a second and a touch through shardplate to dissolve his bond. When Dalinar gave up Oathbringer, we see it from Kaladons perspective but he doesn't even seem to touch the gem. Curious as to the discrepancy. Maybe you are right, but the issue interest me. I too was under the impression forcing the bonded Blade into the physical realm was hard... I must have read it somewhere, but I can't find the quotes back. You would be most helpful if you could. As for Dalinar unbonding Oathbringer, well, I remember reading him saying he had to forced the Blade to remain solid, but I just can't find the quote again... I initially read the library version whereas I bought a later one... There are bits I remember from my first read I can't find in the book I currently owned... Weird. Either my memory serves me wrong or the books indeed are different. Perhaps I should order the library book again and make a comparison. However, I agree it does not seem conclusive either ways. I am curious as to what is the truth exactly, so whatever you may have found out would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jit Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Maxal I think I remember the section you are talking about, if it is the same one as I'm thinking then it at the start of ch. 35. I'll have a look when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Maxal I think I remember the section you are talking about, if it is the same one as I'm thinking then it at the start of ch. 35. I'll have a look when I get home. Yes please do. I have been looking for it without much success. It all goes with my favorite theory making for which I always need new arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Ascendant Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Hmm...... Who minus one me and why please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 As for Dalinar unbonding Oathbringer, well, I remember reading him saying he had to forced the Blade to remain solid, but I just can't find the quote again... Train was super late last night and I fell asleep before I could post, and now I'm running late for work. Should be able to post quotes this evening. As for this: The scene is from Kaladin's perspective, so we don't know what goes through Dalinar's head. What we do know is, while Kaladin's back is turned, Dalinar Summons the Blade. Seconds later, Kaladin is watching. He just steps forward, sticks the sword in the ground, and steps back. And Oathbringer is now unbound. From "summoning" (ergo, must be bound) to taking his hand off (unbound) has been seconds, after the most stressful and tense hours of his life. No explicit mention is made of him touching the stone, which to me says that if it even happened, it was such a casual gesture as to not be worthy of note. So, not sure why Dalinar talks about it in the abstract at the end of WoR when he has a concrete example himself, or why he says it should be hard when the two times we've seen it, it seems as easy as "think of something for a moment and press a button", like if you were asked to think about the letter "J" and then press the "J" key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Who minus one me and why please. Don't worry, I undid it. Doing a super short, not much to add post is kind of against the rules. To avoid more downvotes like that, feel free to read this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02ranger Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Train was super late last night and I fell asleep before I could post, and now I'm running late for work. Should be able to post quotes this evening. As for this: The scene is from Kaladin's perspective, so we don't know what goes through Dalinar's head. What we do know is, while Kaladin's back is turned, Dalinar Summons the Blade. Seconds later, Kaladin is watching. He just steps forward, sticks the sword in the ground, and steps back. And Oathbringer is now unbound. From "summoning" (ergo, must be bound) to taking his hand off (unbound) has been seconds, after the most stressful and tense hours of his life. No explicit mention is made of him touching the stone, which to me says that if it even happened, it was such a casual gesture as to not be worthy of note. So, not sure why Dalinar talks about it in the abstract at the end of WoR when he has a concrete example himself, or why he says it should be hard when the two times we've seen it, it seems as easy as "think of something for a moment and press a button", like if you were asked to think about the letter "J" and then press the "J" key. Do you think it's possible he didn't unbind it at all, but instead was unbound only after Sadeas bound it? Maybe Sadeas could take the Blade and, as long as Dalinar doesn't recall it first, bond it to himself and erase the old bond. We know it takes 5 days to bond it so it would be risky, but in that situation if the Blade just disappeared Sadeas would have no trouble figuring out that Dalinar was going back on their deal. I agree this doesn't really make sense, but if we're to assume it's all intentionally written as it is and not an oversight, then this is the best explanation I can come up with for the discrepancy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) Or Sadeas could destroy the gem to be certain. It could be a continuity error, but unbinding seems simple enough that I doubt Brandon will make a pivotal moment of it. So far, it seems to be mostly color. Now if Amaram had replaced the gem in the sword that Dalinar retrieved, that would have been awkward. Edited August 31, 2015 by hoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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