Why Didn’t Renarin Reveal His Radiancy?

[ivoryblade]

I’ve always felt that Renarin constantly tries to make himself useful, particularly to his family and father. I do wonder why he never revealed his Radiancy to Dalinar when Dalinar had reformed the Knights Radiant; Dalinar was looking so desperately for a Radiant, and there Renarin was—yet he did not reveal himself to his father. What reasons would he have for not doing this?

[mirahound]

That's actually a really good question, I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet (unless it has and I've just missed the thread.  ). I wonder if maybe it has something to do with Adolin? Trying not to upstage his brother? Also, it wouldn't surprise me if he suspected he was the one writing the countdown on the walls, and it scared him. If he's a Truthwatcher who can see the future, he might have seen something that disturbed or worried him enough to keep him quiet until he could figure it out.

[Ascendant Warrior]

I imagine that Renarin felt very alone in his new powers, possibly even thought he was going crazy.  Once others came forward, he knew he wasn't alone.  Also, being a Truthwatcher, he could see the future, which Vorinism says is of the Voidbringers.  The two combined probably made him keep quiet.

[Oudeis]

Keep in mind he might only have realized what he was recently. Kaladin was using powers for a while and conversing constantly with Syl and had no idea. We know from Ym that spren like Glys are not very talkative.

[Quiver]

Sure, Dalinar is talking about reforming the Knight Radiants...but remember what that means in-world.

The Radiants were the ones who abandoned and betrayed humanity according to Vorinism. They were fairly heretical. Not to mention the fact that Renarin was seeing the future (another heresy), and is already marked as being 'abnormal' among the Alethi for his blood weakness.

Why volunteer the information of his Radiancy, even if he knew what he was? At best, he's a heretic, at worst...

Well, he's already considered 'weird and creepy' by Shall an, and a disgrace by other Highprinces. Why would he add 'Knight Radiant' to that list?

For which matter, how would he even broach the topic with Dalinar? It was clearly something Renarin was ashamed of- he very likely was terrified what Dalinar might think or react to it.

[DreamEternal]

And even after Adolin accepted his father's visions, he was still creeped out by the writing in the wall and believed prescience to be of the voidbringers.

[maxal]

That's actually a really good question, I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet (unless it has and I've just missed the thread.  ). I wonder if maybe it has something to do with Adolin? Trying not to upstage his brother? Also, it wouldn't surprise me if he suspected he was the one writing the countdown on the walls, and it scared him. If he's a Truthwatcher who can see the future, he might have seen something that disturbed or worried him enough to keep him quiet until he could figure it out.

 

I has been brought up, but not recently which explains why you have not seen it. The most plausible answer is he was scared. We must not forget Renarin is autistic so any drastic change is bond to upset him. His capacity of adaptation is lesser than that of a neurotypical person. One of the traits of autistic persons is the tendency to take things at face value and to have issues seeing the hidden message, so when Renarin saw a dramatic vision, he took it for the irrevocable future. Perhaps a part of him hoped he was wrong, so he tried to warn his family by making the countdown, but ultimately, as event unfold, he lost as he could not conceive the visions could be wrong or not complete.

 

Another explanation has to do with faith and how the Kholin family treats it. Back in WoK, when Dalinar had visions, he is convinced they are real. For him, the possibility they might be wrong is not real. Dalinar has faith. He believes in the Almighty and does not demand more proof than those he already has. At the time, this conflict was mostly seen from Adolin's POV who could not accept the vision were true without solid proof. In other words, Adolin does not have enough faith to accept some spooky visions may be a sign from the Almighty, a thought reinforced by Ardent Kadash words they must be false. However what of Renarin? We had little Renarin, but from what we have seen, he had no issues believing his father's vision were true. So, like his father, young Renarin does not need more concrete proof the visions are real. I see it as a matter of faith. Dalinar and Renarin have strong one, Adolin requires grounded proof to adapt his thinking.

 

Based on this, I would theorize young Renarin is highly influenced by Vorinism. So when he has visions, he is troubled because 1) they are dreadful and he thinks they will come to pass as he cannot see the loop-holes, 2) they violate everything he has been taught about Vorinism and it goes against his own faith.

 

It thus sums back to fear: fear of the future, fear of being evil, feelings potentially exacerbated by his autistic nature.

 

I do not think Renarin thought he would upstage Adolin by admitting he was a Radiant. If anything, he sees himself as a rather useless one and clearly does not think it is a good thing, but a curse.

 

 

And even after Adolin accepted his father's visions, he was still creeped out by the writing in the wall and believed prescience to be of the voidbringers.

 

Yeah well... Adolin always gets nervous and stressed out when his world starts to fall outside its regular pattern. We have a few examples of this: his father's visions, being named Highprince, the countdown, , the Assassin in White, highstorms, Urithiru, the Radiants, etc. All are situation falling outside his control he is powerless to influence. Since he is deprived of any means to fight back, he gets stressed out by the potential outcome. The fear or being afraid, all in all, it is anxiety. We have inklings here and there Adolin is subject to it from time to time. It is currently controllable, but it is the kind of behavior that could spread out of control rather easily. We'll see in next book if he goes down this way.

 

Renarin, of all people, seems to have figured that out about his brother... thought I do not think Adolin is the reason why Renarin refused to talk.

[Ansalem]

Not to mention Renarin apparently thought something was wrong with him, possibly that he was going insane.

 

“No spectacles . . .” Dalinar whispered. “You stopped wearing them. I thought you were trying to look like a warrior, but no. Stormlight healed your eyes.”

 

Renarin nodded.

 

“And the Shardblade,” Dalinar said, stepping over and taking his son by the shoulder. “You hear screams. That’s what happened to you in the arena. You couldn’t fight because of those shouts in your head from summoning the Blade. Why? Why didn’t you say anything?”

 

“I thought it was me,” Renarin whispered. “My mind. But Glys, he says . . .” Renarin blinked. “Truthwatcher.”

 

 

 

[02ranger]

I has been brought up, but not recently which explains why you have not seen it. The most plausible answer is he was scared. We must not forget Renarin is autistic so any drastic change is bond to upset him. His capacity of adaptation is lesser than that of a neurotypical person. One of the traits of autistic persons is the tendency to take things at face value and to have issues seeing the hidden message, so when Renarin saw a dramatic vision, he took it for the irrevocable future. Perhaps a part of him hoped he was wrong, so he tried to warn his family by making the countdown, but ultimately, as event unfold, he lost as he could not conceive the visions could be wrong or not complete.

Is there a WoB that says Renarin is autistic? This is the first I've heard of it and from the books I always just thought he was a mild epileptic, which made him feel different and weak which in turn made him awkward around others.

[WeiryWriter]

Is there a WoB that says Renarin is autistic? This is the first I've heard of it and from the books I always just thought he was a mild epileptic, which made him feel different and weak which in turn made him awkward around others.

 

Yes there is.

[maxal]

Is there a WoB that says Renarin is autistic? This is the first I've heard of it and from the books I always just thought he was a mild epileptic, which made him feel different and weak which in turn made him awkward around others.

 

It is not obvious to the casual observer. Unless you specifically know what to look for, you will never figure it out by yourself. Even when you know what to look for, it still is not all too obvious. However, as Weiry pointed out, it is a fact confirmed by Brandon. So yes, I'd say it is a factor in Renarin's behavior. Being autistic means he does not process information from the outside world in the same way a neurotypical individual would, which makes it very hard for some of us to actually understand him. However, it needs to be weighted in any Renarin's linked discussion.

 

As for him being epileptic, according to Google, it appears autism increases the risks of a child being epileptic. Internet brought forward a 40% chance of increased probability, worst it appears to be one of the leading cause of death in autistic children. However, I suspect Renarin does not suffer from the "dangerous" kind of epilepsy as he does not convulse on the ground.

 

Therefore, Renarin being epileptic is probably meant to be a clue towards his autism. No doubt Brandon has made some research on the matter.

[natc]

He cares so much about his weakness that I'm sincerely doubtful that even stormlight could heal that epilepsy without a significant boost to confidence, sadly

[maxal]

He cares so much about his weakness that I'm sincerely doubtful that even stormlight could heal that epilepsy without a significant boost to confidence, sadly

 

I do not think stormlight can heal autism and since both may be linked... I have thus come to doubt Renarin will heal. He may have to learn to live with it and to make best with whatever limitations he has. We all have limitations simply because his are more obvious in the world where he lives does not mean other characters do not have theirs.

[02ranger]

Yes there is.

Well, that settles that. lol

 

It is not obvious to the casual observer. Unless you specifically know what to look for, you will never figure it out by yourself. Even when you know what to look for, it still is not all too obvious. However, as Weiry pointed out, it is a fact confirmed by Brandon. So yes, I'd say it is a factor in Renarin's behavior. Being autistic means he does not process information from the outside world in the same way a neurotypical individual would, which makes it very hard for some of us to actually understand him. However, it needs to be weighted in any Renarin's linked discussion.

 

As for him being epileptic, according to Google, it appears autism increases the risks of a child being epileptic. Internet brought forward a 40% chance of increased probability, worst it appears to be one of the leading cause of death in autistic children. However, I suspect Renarin does not suffer from the "dangerous" kind of epilepsy as he does not convulse on the ground.

 

Therefore, Renarin being epileptic is probably meant to be a clue towards his autism. No doubt Brandon has made some research on the matter.

I never would have picked up on it. That actually makes Renarin make much more sense to me now, though. I thought some of the things he does and the way he acts seemed so odd or childish at times, but autism, even mild autism, would explain that to a degree.

[maxal]

Well, that settles that. lol

 

I never would have picked up on it. That actually makes Renarin make much more sense to me now, though. I thought some of the things he does and the way he acts seemed so odd or childish at times, but autism, even mild autism, would explain that to a degree.

 

Yeah well Renarin is a frustrating character to read for certain people. His behavioral pattern do not agree with all: some find very endearing whereas other are discouraged by it. 

[Alfa]

Hm. Never thought, that Renarin was religious, but it seems somehow logical. Also makes sense, that he sees being Radiant as incompatible with the Ardentia.

[maxal]

Hm. Never thought, that Renarin was religious, but it seems somehow logical. Also makes sense, that he sees being Radiant as incompatible with the Ardentia.

 

I don't think it is obvious either and I am not sure my analysis is correct... but he did readily believe his father about the visions... and he did worry about having visions of the future due to religion...  

 

I have suspected for a long time he spent way too much time with the ardent. I mean, being prevented to do any physical activity, he must have occupy his time with something.

[Zea mays]

At some point in WoK Dalinar reflects about Renarin, and mentions that he abjectly refused joining the Ardentia. To me that suggests he is not mindlessly devout. Remember also that it was Ren who suggested testing the veracity of Dalinar's visions, this after an ardent all but described them as blaphemy to Adolin.

We need to know more about Ren before we can inderstand him. For one thing, when did he actually know that he was a radiant? When did Glys say "Truthwatcher"? Maybe he "came out" as soon as he found out.

[02ranger]

I don't think it is obvious either and I am not sure my analysis is correct... but he did readily believe his father about the visions... and he did worry about having visions of the future due to religion...  

 

I have suspected for a long time he spent way too much time with the ardent. I mean, being prevented to do any physical activity, he must have occupy his time with something.

And regardless of whether he truly believes or not, he would not want to tell people he's seeing the future just because of how everybody else would react.

[maxal]

At some point in WoK Dalinar reflects about Renarin, and mentions that he abjectly refused joining the Ardentia. To me that suggests he is not mindlessly devout. Remember also that it was Ren who suggested testing the veracity of Dalinar's visions, this after an ardent all but described them as blaphemy to Adolin.

We need to know more about Ren before we can inderstand him. For one thing, when did he actually know that he was a radiant? When did Glys say "Truthwatcher"? Maybe he "came out" as soon as he found out.

 

Yes but Renarin may have had other reasons for not joining the Ardentia. Remember how he states everyone tells him it's OK not to be a soldier while Vorinism keep on screaming there is no higher Calling? Let's not forget the Ardents are possessions and not free: this may have been enough to repel him though I suspect his refusal is more inline with him bearing a tunnel vision where it is soldier or nothing.

 

As for the testing of the vision, remember he only suggested it in order to quell the argument between his father and his brother. Had Adolin not so strongly oppose himself to the visions, would Renarin have suggested they test them? It is a valid question. I am unsure of the answer, but it may be a possibility.

 

Well... We know he was bonding Glys in chapter 14 when he received his Blade, but he had not said any oath as it presumably did not scream. We know that, by the time we reach chapter 28 (perhaps not the exact number, in that vicinity), he had said at least the first oath as he heard the Blade scream as he summoned it to try to scare some Parshendis. His reaction leads us to believe it may be the first time. It is also the first time someone reflects on his lack of glasses, so it may be he said the oath quite recently and healed his eyes at about the same time. Looking at his behavior at the end of WoR, we can extrapolate he may have said the second oath as he identify himself as a Truthwatcher and based on Kaladin, we saw that Syl could not word this fact until the second oath.

 

However, from the moment he said the first oath, he must have known. Glys must also have talked to him, like all sprens. So it is safe to assume he has known for a rather long time, but kept quiet. For him not to know seems baffling. How can he say oaths and not know what he is doing? That does not make sense.

 

 

And regardless of whether he truly believes or not, he would not want to tell people he's seeing the future just because of how everybody else would react.

 

Perhaps, but it seemed more viral with Renarin... it felt deeper than that, but I may be wrong.

[02ranger]

Perhaps, but it seemed more viral with Renarin... it felt deeper than that, but I may be wrong.

No, you're probably right. I was just saying that regardless of his personal beliefs he still wouldn't be likely to say anything due to the way the people react to future-telling. I mean, they're so averse to the idea that Shallan comments on games of chance being looked down on because it strayed awfully close to future-telling.

 

(I know there's a better word than future-telling, but I'm having a brain cramp and can't seem to think of it.....)

[Ansalem]

No, you're probably right. I was just saying that regardless of his personal beliefs he still wouldn't be likely to say anything due to the way the people react to future-telling. I mean, they're so averse to the idea that Shallan comments on games of chance being looked down on because it strayed awfully close to future-telling.

 

(I know there's a better word than future-telling, but I'm having a brain cramp and can't seem to think of it.....)

 

Prescience, precognition, soothsaying, uhh... I know there's at least one more.

[02ranger]

Prescience, precognition, soothsaying, uhh... I know there's at least one more.

I think prophesy/prophesying is the word I was looking for.

[Ansalem]

I think prophesy/prophesying is the word I was looking for.

 

The other one I was trying to think of is clairvoyance, but that also works.

[CJ Feboris]

More on the Renarin is autistic thing...if he is less that aspergers on the spectrum then it is really very close to a normal functioning human. With that being said we already know that stormlight can heal anything short of a crushing blow to the skull and we have seen that even that is tenuous becasue when Szeth is attacking Gavilar he gets his face punched in which is generally pretty crushing to the brain and stormlight healed this wound relatively quickly. With all that being said I think stormlight can heal the neuropathways in the brain if it can repair a "soul." So anything Renarin had previously is probably not a factor any longer.