Lightsong question

[jag519]

Why was Lightsong hot?

You're supposed to look what you think that you should look like, and he constantly states that he doesnt believe he's a god, he thinks he is a lazy, useless fop, so shouldn't he look like a lazy not active dude?

[Claincy]

I think there is a difference between what he says he logically should be like, saying he doesn't deserve his fitness etc and how he actually perceives himself. All his memories are from since he returned and so he only remembers looking like that. Also, everybody around him all the time believes that he should look as he does.

 

Basically I think he doesn't accept himself being a divinity but, at the same time he does recognize that there is something special about returned and believes that he should look the way he does. Does that make sense? (This is of course just my speculation, not confirmed.)

[Gamma Fiend]

I wouldn't put it past Lightsong to just be like, "You know, I don't think I'm divine, but i KNOW I look good."
Or something like that. (Maybe he also thought he could have been a model in his past life, on top of detective and lock-picker)

[Vortaan]

There's a lot of evidence that Returned are influenced by the cultural perception of the ideal for gods. So despite the fact that Lightsong doesn't feel as though he deserves his body, he is influenced by the culture he lives in to look like the ideal they perceive he should be. There is actually a lot of Realmatics involved in how I think this works, but that's the short answer.

[Kurkistan]

Did someone say Realmatics!?
 
Yeah, it's because of cultural perceptions. We have direct Brandon quotes on it, and I've spun off a related theory as well.

Link

Kurkistan:
1) Are the changing beauty standards of Returned and the "plausibility" of Forgeries determined by the same kind of "cognitive ideals or concepts which have taken on literal personification over time" that some types of Spren represent?

Brandon:
1) Yes. These things all work according to the same fundamental framework.

 
Link

Nepene:
5) In Warbreaker Lightsong mentions that the Returned's forms are dependent on contemporary beauty standards. In the Emperor's Soul Shai implies that if others did not find the Emperor's Soul plausible it would not take as well. Is my reading of their statements correct, is their magic dependent on how others view you as well as how you view yourself?

Brandon:
5) Yes. This is a factor.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner]

Also, directly related.

JEREMY_CARROLL
How could Vasher become Drab, since he would have to give up his Big Breath to do so?
BRANDON SANDERSON
The Divine Breath can be hid. Essentially, you have to view yourself NOT as a god at all, using a very specific bit of mental gymnastics. As a Returned, your body changes based on how you see yourself. (This, by the way, is an indication that Lightsong was more pleased with himself than he ever let on.)
Source

[happyman]

Thank you for that quote, Windrunner.  Lightsong's attitude towards himself has always been a bit enigmatic and slightly hypocritical.  I mean, unlike Vasher, he actually does take advantage of other people's perception of him as a god, even while he claims to not believe it.  He also tries his best to live up to their needs, despite his alleged unbelief.  It's one of the pillars of his character, really.

After all, he told Siri she couldn't rely on him when the chips were down.  So who sacrifices his life in order to save Siri?  Yeah, that's Lightsong all over again.  His disbelief is all talk.  He belief is all action.  Which one does he really hold?  I think that results answer for themselves.

[Kurkistan]

Not so far, happy. If you woke up one day and had people calling you a god, lavishing wealth upon you and whatnot, wouldn't you be likely to both accept their gifts (especially if you don't really have the option of refusing them, either physically or socially) and try to repay them in some way by acting your part in public?

 

Lightsong's actions in regards to his perceived divinity don't require that he be a god, simply that he be a fairly good person.

[happyman]

Not so far, happy. If you woke up one day and had people calling you a god, lavishing wealth upon you and whatnot, wouldn't you be likely to both accept their gifts (especially if you don't really have the option of refusing them, either physically or socially) and try to repay them in some way by acting your part in public?

 

Lightsong's actions in regards to his perceived divinity don't require that he be a god, simply that he be a fairly good person.

 

He's more complex than even I described,  I'll give you that.  I'll just say that on read-through's, I can't help but feel like part of him knows he's playing a game, and even more, why he's playing it.  That he keeps his God-form even though he doesn't have to, as Vasher shows, just underlines this.

 

Once again, I think you are taking him at his word more than you should.  But we could argue this forever, and until I do a careful reconstruction of the text, I doubt I will have a good argument for more.  Ah well.