Lerasium and Atium Theory (potential Mistborn spoilers)

[Elend_Rahl]

Sounds to me like, with Lerasium having an allomantic charge that rewrites their spiritual dna into a mistborn, then the feruchemical compound would have a pre existing feruchemical charge that, when the person goes to tap it, rewrites their sDNA to include feruchemy.

[aeromancer]

We're sure Sazedium is the power of Feruchemy?

[Elend_Rahl]

We're sure Sazedium is the power of Feruchemy?

 

No, not sure. Just guessing what the Feruchemical Parrallel of Burning lerasium to become a mistborn would be.

[GreyPilgrim]

Sounds to me like, with Lerasium having an allomantic charge that rewrites their spiritual dna into a mistborn, then the feruchemical compound would have a pre existing feruchemical charge that, when the person goes to tap it, rewrites their sDNA to include feruchemy.

 

This is still my belief at this point. Based on the many parallels between Allomancy and Feruchemy, as stated in my initial reply to this thread, it makes most sense that the way to gain Feruchemy would be along the same lines as in Allomancy. Nothing at this point suggests otherwise (that I know of).

[aeromancer]

I always thought Feruchemy was older than Scandrial ... possibly created by Adolnasium himself.

[Shardlet]

Judging by Brandon's comment that similar powers manifest on different worlds, it seems that perhaps all powers are older than Scadrial.  But in the case of Scadrian feruchemy, Ruin and Preservation created humanity there.  So, Scadrian feruchemy would be sourced from Ruin and Preservation.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Shardlet

[Elend_Rahl]

ANd if sourced from Preservatiuon and ruin, there should be a way for non feruchemists to become feruchemist, to keep the parralles accurate. Unless only the extremes in older days could, as hemalurgy connected them to ruin and lerasium to preservation and neither wanted the other to gain more followers.

 

Although now with harmony, who is both, mayhap he will make something similar to that  for a balanced power.

[Moogle]

I expect that to make a Feruchemist you still use lerasium. The effect of lerasium is to rewrite your sDNA, which by default happens to make you an incredibly powerful Mistborn, but there's ways to change that. Alloys of lerasium turn you into Mistings of the metal alloyed, which removes the obvious method of becoming a Feruchemist, and the fact that Seers exist means alloys of lerasium/atium probably just turn you into a Seer. Probably.

 

I expect if we could figure out how lerasium could be used to say, make you an Elantrian, that we'd be able to generalize a theory then work back to Feruchemy. I'm drawing a blank, however. I still expect you need to burn the lerasium, though.

[Shardlet]

I would expect that burning lerasium and its alloys would only ever result in gaining allomancy of some form.  But, given Brandon's comments about lerasium, I think it's possibly possible to use lerasium in some other way to gain feruchemy.  I think though, that there is a way (not involving burning) using some alloy of atium and lerasium to gain feruchemy as well. 

[Elend_Rahl]

I don't think you could burn lerasium to be a feruchemist unless you were already a mistborn. Lerasium makes you a mistborn and attunes you to preservation and hemalurgy makes you either and attunes you to ruin. So, following the parallels, there should be a nuetral way to get the balanced feruchemy

[Moogle]

I don't think you could burn lerasium to be a feruchemist unless you were already a mistborn. Lerasium makes you a mistborn and attunes you to preservation and hemalurgy makes you either and attunes you to ruin. So, following the parallels, there should be a nuetral way to get the balanced feruchemy

 

But do we even know Feruchemy is of Preservation and Ruin? End-neutral, yes, but the basic premise of Feruchemy (storing and tapping elements with no changes) seems like it would be the system of choice for Preservation. According to interviews, both Preservation and Ruin could fuel Feruchemy the same, but why would Ruin bother fuelling anything besides Hemalurgy? (Does he have a choice after investing himself? How does that work?)

 

Also, I'm pretty confident Hemalurgy doesn't attune you to Ruin specifically based on this quote:

 

Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects. (Like with the koloss.) And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly.

 

I would guess any Shard could 'speak' with someone who was Hemalurgically spiked. Vin just never tries with the Inquisitors.

 

As for burning lerasium, I sort of see it like it starts a program that uses a default configuration file (ie. Allomancy), but you can 'specify' configuration options by alloying or otherwise changing it. I would be very surprised if just using it like a metalmind turns one into a Feruchemist. Perhaps if a Feruchemist charges it, then it's burned by a separate person? I wonder if Hoid has left his bead out in a highstorm...

 

Also I'm incredibly unsure on all of this. Interesting theories in this thread!

[Bouskila]

I'm completely new here so bear with me, but here's how I see it:

The advantage of Hemalurgy is its flexibility, in that it can be used to gain either Allomantic or Feruchemical powers, the tradeoff being a net-loss of power, or potency. One can use any Allomantic metal to gain these powers, but the most effective is, of course, atium.

With Allomancy, one can only gain power, going from normal human to misting/mistborn, or from misting to mistborn, all through the use of lerasium. The logical tradeoff would be that since it's a balance between power and flexibility, Allomantic burning can only be used to gain Allomantic powers, making it impossible to become a Feruchemist through Allomancy. If anything, Allomantically burning an alloy of lerasium and atium would turn that person into an Atium Misting, or Seer.

To become a full Feruchemist without use of Hemalurgy, which would result in a loss of power (and dead Feruchemist), or Allomancy, which is impossible, one would need to use the only art which balances flexibility and power, Feruchemy itself.

This supports the theory that one would need to use a lerasium/atium metalmind, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Bouskila

[natc]

This week really is thread necromancy week huh. Really straining that biochromatic breath budget.

But that's quite the contribution in length, and this is a theory thread, so not a problem. I, too, am curious as to the origin of the Terris.

[KnightGradient]

Maybe since Investiture "tears" a whole in your Spiritweb, then fills it up with itself, you could store a portion of your sDNA inside the lerasium(or an alloy of it and atium), which would cause Feruchemy to fill that gap. I think that would solve both the burning issue and the unlimited use problem.

[Shadowspren]

There is a moment in HoA where Harmony says "The Lord Ruler claimed to be both of Preservation and Ruin; which was inaccurate because he only touched one of the powers"

 

Bands of Mourning speculation 

From what I've read, the rumours in this book are that TLR's bracers are somewhere and grant the wearer the abilities that he had. What if it was no coincidence that he dubbed himself of both Ruin and Preservation. What if, when he took the power, he saw the existence of "Harmonium"/"Sazedium" and made his bracers out of it. Thus, is stated above, the alloy of Ruin and Preservation would give a balance and be able to grant the wearer said abilities

[Shardlet]

I'm completely new here so bear with me, but here's how I see it:

The advantage of Hemalurgy is its flexibility, in that it can be used to gain either Allomantic or Feruchemical powers, the tradeoff being a net-loss of power, or potency. One can use any Allomantic metal to gain these powers, but the most effective is, of course, atium.

With Allomancy, one can only gain power, going from normal human to misting/mistborn, or from misting to mistborn, all through the use of lerasium. The logical tradeoff would be that since it's a balance between power and flexibility, Allomantic burning can only be used to gain Allomantic powers, making it impossible to become a Feruchemist through Allomancy. If anything, Allomantically burning an alloy of lerasium and atium would turn that person into an Atium Misting, or Seer.

To become a full Feruchemist without use of Hemalurgy, which would result in a loss of power (and dead Feruchemist), or Allomancy, which is impossible, one would need to use the only art which balances flexibility and power, Feruchemy itself.

This supports the theory that one would need to use a lerasium/atium metalmind, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work.

 

Welcome Bouskila.  I'm honored to have your first post be in a thread I created.  As you probably read above, I also agree that burning to get feruchemy would be less than satisfying to me.  Granted, we have that quote from Brandon indicating that the default result of burning lerasium is becoming a mistborn, but that it could be done in such a way as to have different result.  I read this as potentially, if you knew what you were doing, you could gain feruchemy or some other ability or heal spirit web damage, etc.

 

But, I think that there is likely someway that you could gain feruchemy as a default condition as well.

 

 

There is a moment in HoA where Harmony says "The Lord Ruler claimed to be both of Preservation and Ruin; which was inaccurate because he only touched one of the powers"

 

Bands of Mourning speculation 

From what I've read, the rumours in this book are that TLR's bracers are somewhere and grant the wearer the abilities that he had. What if it was no coincidence that he dubbed himself of both Ruin and Preservation. What if, when he took the power, he saw the existence of "Harmonium"/"Sazedium" and made his bracers out of it. Thus, is stated above, the alloy of Ruin and Preservation would give a balance and be able to grant the wearer said abilities

 

Regarding your speculation, Shadow, Since Sazed ascended fully, in contrast to TLRs partial ascension, I would expect that he gained a greater knowledge than during ascension than TLR did.  Add this to Sazed's already greater knowledge than TLR had at the time of his ascension.  

 

Additionally, I doubt he had a substantial quantity of lerasium in order to make an alloy.  Also, lerasium was something he apparently kept secret.  He likely didn't even discuss it with those he gave a bead to to become the original mistborn.  He wanted to guarantee his power and dominion.  If someone burned two beads, they would have been a crazy powerful mistborn that probably could have rather handily affected metal internal to someone's body.  This would have left TLR much more vulnerable to early overthrow while he was still consolidating his power.

 

I suspect that he would have been very hesitant to seek out more lerasium than he had.  If he had enough lerasium to make his bracers, then I would have expected him to use the two beads left at the well (Elend's and Hoid's) also.  

[Yata]

 Granted, we have that quote from Brandon indicating that the default result of burning lerasium is becoming a mistborn, but that it could be done in such a way as to have different result.

 

To obtain Allomancy through Lerasium. You actually don't burn its. You metabolize it, adding to your own Preservation power.

The Lerasium are concentrate of Preservation power and the guy is put over the requirement of develop Allomancy.

 

If an Allomancer could burn it and He do, we could see the very effect of the lerasium in the Allomancy.

[Bouskila]

I'm pretty sure burning is just slang for metabolizing.

[Oudeis]

I actually thought "metabolizing" was what we call it when aluminum makes all your metals go away without burning them... I'm pretty sure there's a WoB calling lerasium a metal anyone can burn, so I believe you do burn lerasium.

[Yata]

I'm pretty sure burning is just slang for metabolizing.

In Allomancy "burning" is a key-word for "the act of using a metal as the catalyst for one of the Allomantic powers of the Allomancer".

Burning a metal destroy the metal itself, while and after burning tin, you don't have that metal in your system.

The Lerasium indeed metabolize in the Human's System.

If you are capable of burning Lerasium, the Lerasium is not add too your own. Indeed it will be simple destroyed while you recive the Allomantic power, like when you burn Atium.

the act of using a metal as the catalyst for one of the Allomantic powers of the Allomance

[Oudeis]

Obviously we're arguing semantics here. Whenever a question like this is asked of Brandon, he always answers, "Well it depends on what you mean by ___..." so WoB seems to be, people can define words as they wish. In short, there's no "this is the official answer". That said, I suspect most people on the Shard would agree, you burn atium, you burn lerasium, you burn normal metals.

 

That said, there is a distinction between burning tin and burning lerasium or atium, so there's nothing wrong with Yata using "burn" to mean one, and "metabolize" to mean the other.

[WeiryWriter]

To obtain Allomancy through Lerasium. You actually don't burn its. You metabolize it, adding to your own Preservation power.

The Lerasium are concentrate of Preservation power and the guy is put over the requirement of develop Allomancy.

 

If an Allomancer could burn it and He do, we could see the very effect of the lerasium in the Allomancy.

 

Actually no you actually are burning it:

 

17th Shard

If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically?

Brandon Sanderson

That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense?

17th Shard

 

It does.

Brandon Sanderson

 

By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer.

 

(source)