Kalladin wood weapon against a Sharplate or Clasmfiend ?

[Shardlet]

I suspect it will take a lot of time and effort for Taln and anyone who helps him to shift the Alethi (and Rosharan) cultural inertia.  Roshar has not seen itself as a collective culture for thousands of years.  That much time gives place to major individual cultural development that will require enormous effort to shift back to a more collective cultural cohesion.  It might be easier for the Vorin nations to collectively combine (especially in view of the likely upheaval in Jah Keved resulting from the assassination of their king).  But I wonder about the reception a Herald will receive from a clergy and a populous which, by all apparent evidence so far, has drifted over time to entrenched traditions as opposed to vital faith.     

Edited August 15, 2013 by Shardlet

[junior]

But I wonder about the reception a Herald will receive from a clergy and a populous which, by all apparent evidence so far, has drifted over time to entrenched traditions as opposed to vital faith.

 

And that clergy has already been smacked down once for trying to take too much power.  I don't think that trying to upend Alethi culture is going to work very well, no matter what kind of authority the upender might be able to show.

[Natans]

This would assume that they will attain the knowledge, time, and resources required to make new shards. I think Taln may shake this belief the Alethi have about eye color to its core before long.

 

Or he can suffer from lack of credibillity because he is darkeye and in the Alenthi culture there is great bias toward darkeyed people.

 

 

 Just a short while before TWoK took place, even the idea of creating a fabrial that could block a shardblade was deemed impossible. the quote should read "they can only take the shape of a shield, for now."

 

This is what I'm expecting and Navani is, after all, in the Dalinar Team and given the great loss in manpower because the betray in the Tower the use of fabrial weapons to even the odds looks a possible solution.

[Windrunner]

See, I interpret it differently from you, more as being, "This type of fabrial is built in such a way so that a shield of this shape is the only thing it can enhance." Not that they can't create another more versitile fabrial, but that the one they've figured out right now cannot enhance the strength of another object. Another problem I see is that, if I were in control of Jah Keved, I would do everything in my power to prevent the knowledge of how to create a half-shard from becoming better known to the world at large. Then again, Jah Keved is in disarray, thanks to Szeth, so who knows?

Still, I would be willing to bet that we will never see any other sort of weapon akin to a Shardblade created.

[Shardlet]

Still, I would be willing to bet that we will never see any other sort of weapon akin to a Shardblade created.

 

If you meant that generally, and if I was a gambling man, I'd take that bet.  However, if you meant that to mean humans working on their own without super help or old knowledge (like knowledge of how shardplate or shardblades were made), then I would probable agree with you.

[IceBaka]

I think it very likely that one of the Heralds, perhaps Taln, knows how to construct or obtain shardblades.

[Gloom]

Or he can suffer from lack of credibillity because he is darkeye and in the Alenthi culture there is great bias toward darkeyed people.

 

The Alethi culture has no basis to explain a dark-eye wielding a Shard. I have no doubts that there will be resistance, but his very existence will cause problems, unless of course, they kill him before he becomes widely known.

 

As far as the clergy goes, they have been neutered. If those in control of the church saw Taln as a means to increase their power, they would grab at it like a drowning man does a piece of wood. Men who rise in power only do so because they seek power. This is different from those who are born into power. Those born into power are just as likely to abuse power, but aren't necessarily driven by a hunger to attain more.

 

I think it very likely that one of the Heralds, perhaps Taln, knows how to construct or obtain shardblades.

 

As for Shards...

There are various sources that may reveal the lost craft of Shard creation. The heralds are a good possibility, but the secret could also be revealed to Dalinar by some means, or Syl could simply remember how the Radiants came by them in the first place. Brandon could even tap an as yet unknown source to reintroduce Shards in large numbers.

 

I personally believe that the lost Shards will be rediscovered, rather than the art of their creation. If I'm wrong, I'm sure some factor will be introduced to severely limit the number of Shards that can be made. If this isn't the case it would be hard to create tension with a million Shardbearers standing tall waiting for the voidbringers to arrive.

[Satsuoni]

@Gloom:

I am relatively sure the Shards grow from radiants like carapace from Parshendi Well, not quite, but similarly. Only one per Radiant, though, and it is not supposed to be worn by anybody else, so only as many new Shards as Radiants, that is, not too many. (It is even possible that the new shards would be repurposed old corresponding to the same Spren, with the old carapace crumbling to dust. That sure would be fun ) And I could swear I saw a quote from Brandon stating that we'll see the creation of plate in the WoR, but I can't find it, so take it with a salt crystal the size of your head.

[Shardlet]

I suspect that Taln will hold some tidbits on plate and blade creation.  But, I also expect that these will not be able to be created simply at will without some influence making sure that a powerful/wealthy warlord doesn't simply make a bunch of plate and blades once they are in the know.

[Gloom]

@Gloom:

I am relatively sure the Shards grow from radiants like carapace from Parshendi Well, not quite, but similarly. Only one per Radiant, though, and it is not supposed to be worn by anybody else, so only as many new Shards as Radiants, that is, not too many. (It is even possible that the new shards would be repurposed old corresponding to the same Spren, with the old carapace crumbling to dust. That sure would be fun ) And I could swear I saw a quote from Brandon stating that we'll see the creation of plate in the WoR, but I can't find it, so take it with a salt crystal the size of your head.

 

I personally feel that Shards are of Cultivation and therefor grown. Your solution to how this could occur and still limit the availability of existing Shards is plausible, but I find the theory difficult to support. I will say that after all the Desolation's, there must be some limitation on their creation. If there weren't, It seems likely that the Radiants would have created thousands of sets and distributed them to those they felt trustworthy for the duration of those Desolation's. This limitation has to be something to do with the magic system itself, a material limitation would see a larger number of blades than plate. Our own history has repeatedly shown we have a habit of putting a greater value on effective weaponry than we do on effective personal defense.

[junior]

The Alethi culture has no basis to explain a dark-eye wielding a Shard. I have no doubts that there will be resistance, but his very existence will cause problems, unless of course, they kill him before he becomes widely known.

 

I suspect that he'll be ignored.  His dark eyes are easily explained.  His "shardblade" is clearly some sort of fake as it doesn't act like a true and proper shardblade (i.e. it doesn't vanish when dropped).  That's why his eyes are still dark.  The fact that he's clearly wielding a weapon that appears to be as powerful as a shardblade will cause some consternation...  but only because people will start to worry about which nation secretly developed the ability to create shardblade-equivalent weapons.

[Shardlet]

I seriously doubt he'll be ignored.  Though dark-eyed, he will still have a shardblade that is unknown to the Alethi (I'm pretty sure they keep close score as much as possible on who has shardblades and even a description of the blades.  There are only a few hundred that are known).  He also has a shardblade which means he should have lighteyes.  The incongruity will surely demand attention.  There can be no mistaking that he has a shardblade since he will be able to send it into mist and summon it.  The nature of his shardblade (not disappearing when he passed out) will also surely demand attention.  None of this means that people will like him or support him.  But they absolutely will notice and pay attention to him.

[Natans]

I seriously doubt he'll be ignored.  Though dark-eyed, he will still have a shardblade that is unknown to the Alethi (I'm pretty sure they keep close score as much as possible on who has shardblades and even a description of the blades.  There are only a few hundred that are known).  He also has a shardblade which means he should have lighteyes.  The incongruity will surely demand attention.  There can be no mistaking that he has a shardblade since he will be able to send it into mist and summon it.  The nature of his shardblade (not disappearing when he passed out) will also surely demand attention.  None of this means that people will like him or support him.  But they absolutely will notice and pay attention to him.

 

That will depend of who found him. If the ghostbloods or another organazation that knows that the true desolation is coming find him and take him way he could, very well, be put in some kind of prison to futher their agenda, how knows what kind of information he can be forced to give.  

 

I thnk that almost none of the major player are showed and this is a great oportunity to show how are the imediate antagonist of the serie. =)

[hoser]

That will depend of who found him. If the ghostbloods or another organazation that knows that the true desolation is coming find him and take him way he could, very well, be put in some kind of prison to futher their agenda, how knows what kind of information he can be forced to give.  

 

I thnk that almost none of the major player are showed and this is a great oportunity to show how are the imediate antagonist of the serie. =)

I'm guessing that's where Hoid comes in.  I think that Hoid will escort Taln to the Shattered Plains rather quickly. 

 

Taln himself better be able to do some amazing stuff.  After all the fuss about the Heralds, it would be disappointing if they couldn't do much. 

[Shardlet]

Also, imprisonment in order to supress someone or their actions and/or message could hardly be termed ignored.

[Natans]

I was think along of secret imprisionament. If nobody knows that the strange shardbear how crashed the the front gate of Kholimar is a Herald nobody will care, or do anything, what would fit just right with a secret evil named organazation like the Ghostbloods =)

 

Of course is impossible to know what will really happens, but I'm with the impression that Taln will gonna suffer a good deal before he can convince everyone that he is a Herald =)

[Shardlet]

I expect that those in Dalinar's ideological camp (Kaladin, Jasnah, Navani, etc.) will be early adopters, as it were.  Others who are ideologically opposed to Dalinar (as it seems the Ghostbloods are) would also be likely to readily accept his position as a Herald.  I expect that they will work to stop and discredit him.  But, most Alethi (at least the lighteyes) will be opposed to him because he represents major change for them.  The darkeyes will probably be more accepting than the lighteyes at large.

[Gloom]

I seriously doubt he'll be ignored.  Though dark-eyed, he will still have a shardblade that is unknown to the Alethi (I'm pretty sure they keep close score as much as possible on who has shardblades and even a description of the blades.  There are only a few hundred that are known).  He also has a shardblade which means he should have lighteyes.  The incongruity will surely demand attention.  There can be no mistaking that he has a shardblade since he will be able to send it into mist and summon it.  The nature of his shardblade (not disappearing when he passed out) will also surely demand attention.  None of this means that people will like him or support him.  But they absolutely will notice and pay attention to him.

 

Just for the sake of clarity...

Alethkar owned some twenty blades, Jah Keved a similar number. If one added up all the rest in the world, there might be enough total to equal the two powerful Vorin kingdoms. That meant, so far as he knew, there were less than a hundred Blades in all of the world. And here he saw two hundred Shardbearers gathered in one army. It was mind-numbing

 

That means over one hundred Shards have been lost in the last 4500 years. Some, at least some plate, was likely destroyed. Others may be buried under crem with their lost wielders. This leaves over 900 sets of Shards unaccounted for if every order of the Radiants were Shardbearers.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Gloom

[Windrunner]

I think there were more than a thousand Radiants. Everyone seems to assume that these two hundred are equal numbers Windrunners and Stonewards, which could be. But unless I'm mistaken, another hundred Windrunners fall out of the sky, which kind of puts the kibosh on the idea that there were a thousand Radiants.

[Gloom]

I can roll with that. Let me amend my previous post by saying that it is likely that less than one tenth of the Shards that existed prior to the Recreance are in use during Dalinar's time.

[Natans]

I think that a Thounsand Radiant is the total number with the same number of blades and plates because of the symbology with the number 10, and because in the vision where Dalinar was saved by that two radiants, the  windrunner said that Dalinar should try be a radinat but he couldn't promise an place in one of the orders,(because of the numeric limit I think)

 

=)

[Crysanja]

dont forget radiants die too, their weapons can be lost for the radiants then.

this happens in each desolation - so there are propably more shards.

 

maybe each radiant only uses his own grown/made shards, this would mean there are even more.

do radiants destory/recycle shards?

[Windrunner]

I can roll with that. Let me amend my previous post by saying that it is likely that less than one tenth of the Shards that existed prior to the Recreance are in use during Dalinar's time.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. Very well put.

I've got a few thoughts on Radiants, but these are mostly pure speculation. I think that every Radiant had their own personal Blade and set of Plate. The fact that they are each unique suggests to me that each was built with a specific person in mind. I also don't follow the belief that only some of the Radiants had Blades or Plate, simply due to the fact that they are considered knights, and I don't think that anyone refers to someone as a knight if they don't have a sword and a set of armor. I don't follow the "1000" knights interpretation for the reasons I outlined above. The math simply doesn't work out. If you're looking for a number that's related to ten, why not ten thousand? Lots of things are divisible by ten. And anyway, I'm not convinced that the number of Radiants needs to be a multiple of ten. The total number of Ideals in the Immortal Words is likely 41 and that's not related to ten even a little bit.

 

As for the way Harkaylain (the name we believe refers to the male Radiant in Dalinar's vision) spoke of Dalinar joining the Radiants, I think it would be useful to have the direct quote here.

I cannot promise you a position in one of the orders--that decision is not mine--but if your skill with the sword is similar to your skill with hearth-tending implements, then I am confident you will find a place with us.

Personally, I don't think the number of Radiants is limited by sets of Plates and Blades, but by spren. Harkaylain cannot promise Dalinar a position in the orders, because the decision to bond with him rests in the hands of the spren. If the number of Radiants is limited by anything, I believe it to be by the number of spren available to bond.

 

All right, that's enough uniformed speculation for now. Hopefully this was somewhat interesting, and I'd love to hear from someone who agrees, or better yet, disagrees with my interpretations.

[Gloom]

maybe each radiant only uses his own grown/made shards, this would mean there are even more.

do radiants destory/recycle shards?

 

(It is even possible that the new shards would be repurposed old corresponding to the same Spren, with the old carapace crumbling to dust. That sure would be fun ) *SOURCE: POST#33

 

Provided Shards are of Cultivation and grown, it is possible that each Shard is linked with a specific spren. According to the theory that Satsuoni postulated, the Shards only exist until the spren linked to those Shards bonds with a new Radiant who grows a new set of Shards. Once a new set of Shards is created, the original set would crumble. Provided their are a finite number of spren capable of creating Radiant bonds, this would limit the number of Shards that can exist at any one time. It would also eliminate concerns about maintaining Radiant numbers as Shards were lost provided their is a limiting factor on the numbers that can be created. 

[Natans]

Provided Shards are of Cultivation and grown, it is possible that each Shard is linked with a specific spren. According to the theory that Satsuoni postulated, the Shards only exist until the spren linked to those Shards bonds with a new Radiant who grows a new set of Shards. Once a new set of Shards is created, the original set would crumble. Provided their are a finite number of spren capable of creating Radiant bonds, this would limit the number of Shards that can exist at any one time. It would also eliminate concerns about maintaining Radiant numbers as Shards were lost provided their is a limiting factor on the numbers that can be created. 

 

I agree with this line of thought.

 

And a say more, maybe there is only 100 or so spreen of every order. If you believe that some kinds of spreens(honor, truth) are splinters or being of great investidure from the honor shard is possible that there is a limited number of spreens given the fact the the shard power isn't inifinite, so honor would have to limit number of nahel spreen that he could create because, otherwise he would spent too much of his investidure.

 

 

XXXX- Spoiler - XXXX

 

 

If you look to the Seons, of Elantris, that are in fact spinter of devotion is possible to notice that this kind of  investidure being isn't very frequent.