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Time bubble interaction and subjective burn rates


Kurkistan

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One more thing : I may have misread you, but I think you missed the feedback effect: if the power is fed into bubble, and the bubble gets stronger, it overcomes the bendalloy and less power gets fed into bubble. That of course assuming that Marasi was incorrect and two people close to each other do not, in fact, cancel the effects (all effects).

 

Note that my interpretation of limbo state meshes with Peter's(?) note about "where the energy goes". Maybe you can combine bubbles in some way to open a way into hyperspace where time goes.. differently. Or straight into Shadesmar :)

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No, the feedback still occurs because people in the speed bubble are still going significantly faster than they would be if that bubble didn't exist at all. It's "overwhelmed" in the sense that they are going slower than the real world, but they are still going quite a bit faster than the rest of the slow bubble.

 

Also, I'm assuming Marasi simply chose unfortunate phrasing rather than being flat-out incorrect.

 

I do doubt Allomantic FTL uses Shadesmar, though, as I discussed with Phantom here.

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I read Marasi's statement as speed up + slow down = normal time.  It seemed like it was the time effect she was speaking of.  I did not get any sense of bubble cancellation or anything else.  Just the two combined time shifts effectively cancel each other out.

Edited by Shardlet
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Though "nothing happens" is different from "A distorted bubble appears nearby/around us." Still, ambiguous statement. And yes, Kurk, I a aware of the fact that if the energy doesn't simply go the way of the light, it would balance out somewhere in the middle. Also, propelling... yes, probably not Shadesmar, unless by "propelling" he meant something like Tau (I think) in Warhammer 40K, who "skip" off the interface between normal and hyperspace. Or maybe that is as simple as increasing the speed of light locally (which is theoretically possible.. somehow... in some theories)

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  • 1 month later...

Here is the official answer to this question:

The first book talks about this:

See, you and I, we have opposite powers. I speed up time,

you slow it. So what happens if we both use it at the same time? Eh?”

“It’s been documented,” Marasi said. “They cancel one another

out. Nothing happens.”

Seems to me that answers the question. I was wondering if they would cancel each other out only for the size of the speed bubble, so it would be normal in the middle but have a slow bubble ring around that—but Marasi said nothing happens so I assume nothing happens. But it may leave open the possibility for what I described.

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Yes, I am aware of that quote.

 

I found it ambiguous as well, but then Shardlet was kind enough to clear it up: it works like a Venn diagram.

 

What remains, though, is the question of when the misting(s) is encompassed by another bubble. Which question you were kind enough to get a PAFO for. ;)

 

Although, that PAFO does suggest that subjective burn rates don't factor into FTL, assuming that Brandon understood the question and its implications. He definitely knows how FTL works off the top of his head without needing to PAFO.

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The venn diagram question was very specific: "Neither is standing close enough to the other to be within the other's bubble." If they are outside each other's bubbles, the overlap regions will be like a Venn diagram. If they are within each other's bubbles I'd assume they completely cancel out and nothing happens. 

Edited by Isomere
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@Shardlet
 
I ninja, therefore I ninja. :ph34r:
 
I keep a close eye on my threads. ;)

 

The venn diagram question was very specific: "Neither is standing close enough to the other to be within the other's bubble." If they are outside each other's bubbles, the overlap regions will be like a Venn diagram. If they are within each other's bubbles I'd assume they completely cancel out and nothing happens. 

 
The Venn diagram question was specific because I wrote it that way, in order to settle the question of normal overlap without running afoul of the possible complications of subjective burn rates. It succeeded in that goal, and the question I asked Miyabi to ask was the natural follow-up.
 
Though there is a possibility that Brandon simply stopped grasping the question once math got involved—and so didn't realize the easy answer—it stands to reason that, if you are right, he would have said "oh, if the bubble-maker is inside the other bubble, they both just vanish" regardless of what numbers were thrown at him. Instead he PAFO'd, suggesting a more complex interaction.
 
Beyond that, your assumption of complete cancellation seems a bit unfounded. We've gone from people arguing that any overlap results in cancellation—when we didn't know anything—to now narrowing it down to just bubbler-including overlap.
 
Could you provide some justification for the narrowing of circumstances that result in cancellation, then? A literal reading of the AoL quote runs afoul of WoB, and a more nuanced one that avoids WoB but retains complete cancellation in some circumstances doesn't seem warranted at this point.
Edited by Kurkistan
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Yeah, I think the Marasi quote could readily be understood to mean that the time effects cancel each other out not that POOF!, the bubbles go down.  If anything, POOF, the bubbles go down sounds like something special happening as opposed to "nothing" happening.  I think the quote is more in line with WoB than the other interpretation that the bubbles destroy each other.

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Update on the PAFO from Peter. I PM'd him and he said to say that Team Sanderson is aware of the potential issue. That is all.

---

And so back to theorizing! Who needs evidence!? :wacko:

Edited by Kurkistan
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  • 4 months later...

UPDATE 2:
 

Q: What happens when a Pulser is burning Cadmium and in a speed bubble? She'd be burning her Cadmium 20x faster than usual--so far as her bubble and those in it were concerned--and her slow bubble would extend far outside the area made "normal" by the effects of the speed bubble, so where does all that extra energy go?

 

Peter: And for the other question, the extra energy goes the same place the energy from a certain other related thing goes.

 

So it looks like the extra juice goes somewhere else, wherever "the energy from a certain other related thing goes." How helpful.  -_- (;))

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  • 3 months later...

Some time ago there was a WoB mentioning that FTL had something to do with the excess energy from certain Allomantic abilities. Could this be related? This needs to be thought about more.

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Yeah, that was mentioned.

 

Source:

 

ericpeters Mon Nov 14

@BrandSanderson You mentioned friday night in #Seattle Allomacy has "FTL" built into it, any more hints you can share on how that would work
 
BrandSanderson Mon Nov 14
@ericpeters It involves where the lost energy from thermodynamic issues goes in certain Allomantic interactions.#torchat
 
---
 
But given the need for Brandon to PAFO this question, I doubt that this is what he was thinking of all that time ago.
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