teknopathetic Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) I just don't think Hoid is very powerful in an "active sense". Sure you can't kill him, but he also can't really kill you. He was at the shattering, but seemingly gained nothing. If you've read the Dragonsteel chapters, he seemed ineffectual there as well. Some people posit he isn't really a person, but a living fictional character (his obsession with stories). I think he might be something akin to Nightblood, but geniously made by Hoid's former master (who The current Hoid borrowed his name from). Is Nightblood powerful? Yes. But attributing him a pedestal of most powerful being? No. His limitations are too great. I feel Hoid, once understood, would be seen in a similar light. Hoid is powerful, timely, and ingenious, but Hoid can't effect things properly. Or atleast, Hoid can't do this until he achieves some goal. Hoid can effect history and the fates of worlds. So yes, Hoid is powerful. But not in a sense of intent or physical action. Wit tells stories. That change the world. Hoid tells a story about Fleet. Fleet was a man who tried to outrun a storm. Kalidan asks if Fleet was real. Hoid replies "as real as I am". Take Shae though. She can be seen as the most effective character. She can change the identity of anyone or anything. Shae, given time, could conceivably grant investiture to new people. Marsh might be the strongest in terms of burst-power. And WoB states an Elantrian with home turf advantage would be capable of the most amazing battle feats. Kris is the most knowledgeable character in the cosmere. We know nothing of her investiture, but she's probably very old which implies she has something. Hoid is the hardest to kill and capture. Edited August 22, 2015 by teknopathetic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomness Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Blam! Thank you. Right now I´m going to start a petition to Brandon via change.org, to ask him to cut Hoid´s head of in some of the next books so we see the whole process, in the name of the cosmere-science. I want to see you all signing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ruler Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 SPOILER ALERT IN THIS SORRY I CANT FIGURE OUT THE SPOILER TRICK What about szeth with night blood? Sure, marsh has double gold, but anything will die after you hit in the face with night blood enough (and you can quote me on that) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 SPOILER ALERT IN THIS SORRY I CANT FIGURE OUT THE SPOILER TRICK What about szeth with night blood? Sure, marsh has double gold, but anything will die after you hit in the face with night blood enough (and you can quote me on that) This is the Cosmere Theories section, spoiler alerts are not required here except for new books (so Shadows of Self only at this point). You can do spoilers through the following trick: Put your text [spoiler]right here to spoiler it[/spoiler]. As to that... for Nightblood to harm Marsh, it would have to hit him. Marsh can likely just Compound speed and avoid getting hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I still think Marsh is more powerful, myself. Keep in mind, Marsh has all the Metallic powers (maybe not bendalloy and stuff. Sure, Szeth has a way to kill him, but sometimes the underdog wins the fight. The Lord Ruler was way stronger than Vin, but she still found a way to beat him. I don't know if Marsh is absolutely the most powerful character. Comparing Elantrians' powers to his is kind of an apples/oranges situation. Like, an Elantrian in Elantris could probably put out more power than him, but Marsh doesn't have to take the time to draw an aon to be able to do anything. In fact, since he has super speed, he could probably take out a bunch of them before they had time to draw a single one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 In the Marsh VS Szeth, the result (for me) is different if they fight on Roshar or on other Shardworld. On Roshar we don't know what kind of "extra powers" Szeth gains from the bond. In other Shardworld I think that Marsh win. But to be honest, I think that Rashek was much more powerfull than Marsh. He was probably more "allomanticaly strong" than Marsh, and He was a true fullborn (the only in the History) with abilities and "combo" that Marsh may not use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Even an Inquisitor with enough spikes to be allomantically and feruchemically as strong as Rashek would by default still be weaker, yeah. Since they can't obtain spikes of potential new god metals and god metal alloys without taking from a Mistborn. Rashek is truly the only man able to burn, store, tap, and compound with all magically reactive metals that have ever existed and can ever exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Rashek is truly the only man able to burn, store, tap, and compound with all magically reactive metals that have ever existed and can ever exist. Well, besides Hoid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistWit Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Judging power is sort of hard if we are judging the power of everything in the cosmer. What kind of power? Intelligence, knowledge, pure amount of investiture, ability to act. These are all very complex when we start looking at them. Harmony probably is the strongest when considering he has 2 full shards but it has been said many times that it is hard for him to act becouse of his conflicting intent. Plus he his likely the most inexperienced of all the shards. Odium on the other hand might only have 1 shard but has shown he is extremely powerful and intelligent. He has killed 3 other shards that we know of and probably has held his shard since the shattering. While Harmony's pure strength may be greater than Odium's, Odium's experience and alignment with his intent could be considered to make him stronger. Another thing to consider is if these two where ever to fight(which would be started by odium undoubtedly) odium would never fight directly against somebody obviously more physically stronger. Just asking a blanket question," who would win in a fight," doesn't work for most characters or beings since their personal ways of fighting would have an effect on the battle. Kaladin for instance might fight you face to face while Kelseer would stab you in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seonid Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Actually, Odium has killed 4 shards. 3 known, 1 unknown. Leiftinspace got that answer a while back and posted it on the forums. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyring Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Shardblade wouldent be able to cut the spikes, and since Marsh got a shitload of them, it would be difficult to manage to actuallly cut through him. And seriously, a compounding steelrunner... thats just absurd. There is no limit to the speed, except possibly that you might burn up from heat simular to something entering earth orbit if you go to fast, but he can just store heat for that... Noone without simular speed can do anything about that if the steelrunner is aware of them. yeah, szeth is fast, but while szeth runs from a plateu to He better remember to turn of the tin before getting moving thou. The sonic bang would surely hurt like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Shardblade wouldent be able to cut the spikes, and since Marsh got a shitload of them, it would be difficult to manage to actuallly cut through him. And seriously, a compounding steelrunner... thats just absurd. There is no limit to the speed, except possibly that you might burn up from heat simular to something entering earth orbit if you go to fast, but he can just store heat for that... Noone without simular speed can do anything about that if the steelrunner is aware of them. yeah, szeth is fast, but while szeth runs from a plateu to He better remember to turn of the tin before getting moving thou. The sonic bang would surely hurt like hell. Well, I think Shardblades can cut the spikes, as the levels of investiture between the two make Shardblades far more invested than spikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Actually, Odium has killed 4 shards. 3 known, 1 unknown. Leiftinspace got that answer a while back and posted it on the forums. Oh, cool, so there's another Splinterworld like Sel and Roshar out there? Good to know. We should probably also clarify sometime that Survival shard and Space shard aren't the extra one Splintered by Rayse, but I doubt that would be the case. Well, I think Shardblades can cut the spikes, as the levels of investiture between the two make Shardblades far more invested than spikes They might function like regular metal blades against the Spikes, similar to how they interact with other Shardblades. Would certainly be interesting to see! Well, besides Hoid. Does Marsh actually have access to all the feruchemical and allomantic powers like a Feruchemist Mistborn would, or did Ruin leave out metals like allomantic gold, cadmium, electrum, etc... that he didn't know about, and some of the less useful feruchemical powers? (like Warmth) I thought he simply duplicated all of the practical and known feruchemical and allomantic powers as of the beginning of Era 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 We're saying that even if you can give him all those powers, if a new metal is introduced into the system a fullborn would already be able to burn it or store in it, while an Inquisitor would have to make more spikes to compensate. It is physically impossible to keep up as an Inquisitor in terms of variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misttaken Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 We're saying that even if you can give him all those powers, if a new metal is introduced into the system a fullborn would already be able to burn it or store in it, while an Inquisitor would have to make more spikes to compensate. It is physically impossible to keep up as an Inquisitor in terms of variety. On the other hand, the combination of Allomantic Atium and Feruchemical Steel is pretty much all you need if you have access to enough Atium. Throw in Gold compounding for good measure and you are all but unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 We're saying that even if you can give him all those powers, if a new metal is introduced into the system a fullborn would already be able to burn it or store in it, while an Inquisitor would have to make more spikes to compensate. It is physically impossible to keep up as an Inquisitor in terms of variety. Sure but we don't know if Ruin give them all the powers, I think there isn't enough Mistborn/Feruchemyst to do something like that. Probably many of the extra spikes to Marsh and the others was Iron/Tin Spike (Strenght and Sense) used to have a better controll over the Inquisitors. Anyway for example Marsh can't probably burn/store the Malatium (and the other 15 Atium's Alloy) also if he has an Atium Spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Yes, I know it hasn't happened, that's part of the point >_> It basically can't happen. A Mistborn will always have more powers than an Inquisitor because Inquisitors are individually collected abilities while Mistborn have the overarching property of "we can burn all allomantic metals" which due to god metals is not a fixed number. With 16 metals, each shard's hypothetical metal, the metals of every possible merging of multiple shards, and potential alloys of all of that stuff, counting the possibilities of a Mistborn sounds like an exercise in frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotumirio Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 According to coppermind.net, "Nightblood in the hands of Szeth should be one of the most terrifying things you have ever contemplated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacThorstenson Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Don't forget to check the date of the last post before posting on a thread. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Dotumirio said: According to coppermind.net, "Nightblood in the hands of Szeth should be one of the most terrifying things you have ever contemplated". Welcome to the shard! Have some cookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) Harmony, followed by the other shards. I once asked Brandon during a livestream who the most powerful non-Shard entity was in the Cosmere and he responded with Hoid. After that, you have the full Compounders (full mistborn and fueruchemist), due to the fact they have so many abilities and can store up Preservation's power through compounding. After that, it is a bit harder to say. Susebron appears to have an absurd amount of investiture. Elantrians in Elantris have massive amplification for channeling the Dor, although it could be argued that isn't their power, they're just directing it. The Heralds back in their day had direct connections to Honor and likely packed one hell of a punch. After that, it goes to the different magic systems based on scenario and circumstance. And there are also those subtle forces Brandon mentioned. Does the 17ths Shard count as an entity, because it would likely be very powerful based on its members? There's also the God Beyond, mentioned on several worlds, which may just be Autonomy playing around, or it may the entity responsible for opposing Adonalisium, or maybe something else. Edited December 20, 2017 by Wandering Investor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 hours ago, Wandering Investor said: There's also the God Beyond, mentioned on several worlds, which may just be Autonomy playing around, or it may the entity responsible for opposing Adonalisium, or maybe something else. The God Beyond is a hypothetical capitol g God, analogous to capitol g God in judeo-christian theology, who resides in the beyond, the afterlife of the cosmere that shards cannot see into. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 10 hours ago, Ookla the oathgate said: The God Beyond is a hypothetical capitol g God, analogous to capitol g God in judeo-christian theology, who resides in the beyond, the afterlife of the cosmere that shards cannot see into. Are you stating that as a theory or...? Because I've never seen anything to fully support that. https://coppermind.net/wiki/God_Beyond I did find a quote about the God Beyond being an idea of a Full God, beyond what the shards can do, but any question related to the beyond, or any question about what the God Beyond is, have been RAFO'd. https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=god+beyond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTiger Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 Kelsier would be pretty high on the list, as a Fullborn with minimal morals. Harmony (or maybe Hoid) should sic him on Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 1 hour ago, SilverTiger said: Harmony should sic him on Odium. Not a good idea. Quote Djarskublar (paraphrased) So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back. Djarskublar (paraphrased) Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this. Djarskublar (paraphrased) So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care. Djarskublar (paraphrased) Okay cool. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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