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Would the Three Metallic Arts function the same way as we see them if Preservation and Ruin were Splintered?

This is trying to dig at if the magics of Sel functioned the same way before Devotion (syn) and Dominion's Splintering at the hands of Odium.

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Two Mistborn questions (I keep adding those...):

If Vin was attuned to Preservation by the Well, thus able to take it, then how and when was Sazed attuned to both Shards?

When is Misting's metal determined?

Is someone ie. born with the capacity to become Seeker or simply with capacity to become a Misting and the kind of Misting is determined as he/she Snaps?

If the first option is true, is it possible to spike Allomancy from a person before they Snap (besides the obvious problem with guessing that they have a potential, but let's assume they're a child of two Allomancers, so the probability is high)?

I try to figure out the situation with Vin's sister, did she too Snap extremely early?

OK, it was actually three questions. Or four.

Edited by Eri
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I believe Sazed's case was different from Vin's. Vin was chosen by Preservation while Preservation was still kind of alive. So when he died, his power went to his "champion," Vin, very much like inheritance. When Vin died, however, she had made no choice about who to take the power of Preservation - I am not even sure if she knew how to. So the Shard figuratively dropped on the ground - that's the smoke/mist Sazed saw when the bodies of Vin and Ati dropped on the ground. A similar thing happened with Ruin's Shard, I believe.

I don't think this has been canonized, but it makes perfect sense to me.

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I believe Sazed's case was different from Vin's. Vin was chosen by Preservation while Preservation was still kind of alive. So when he died, his power went to his "champion," Vin, very much like inheritance.

Not exactly, you're missing two details:

1. It actually went to Kelsier for a few months.

2. It is, as far as I remember, confirmed that the Well was something that attuned Vin making it possible for her to take Preservation. At least Sazed wrote so in that book he gives Spook at the end of HoA. I think he is, at that point, a quite reliable source.

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I think that the Ascension of Shards is something that we're going to need some more information on. Is it because he was a Feruchemist? Is it because Preservation knew it was going to be him? (Fate of the world on his arms) Is it because he believed in Preservation and knew that Ruin was real? Or was he just the only one there at the right time?

EDIT- A Problem with the "Champion theory" is that Ruin had a champion- Marsh. Maybe he wasn't a Champion, but he was Ruin's primary tool.

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I'm going to go with Marsh was just a tool, like Zas said. I see a champion as someone with free will, powered by the Shard, but not controlled. If Marsh was evil and Ruining things because he liked it, and Ruin chose to power his Hemalurgy, then he would be a champion. This is likely why choosing a champion will constrict Odium, he will have to limit his power to one person. I wonder also if faith is part of being a champion. The second Elend thinks about his faith that Vin will save him, she is able to start powering his Allomancy

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I'm going to go with Marsh was just a tool, like Zas said. I see a champion as someone with free will, powered by the Shard, but not controlled. If Marsh was evil and Ruining things because he liked it, and Ruin chose to power his Hemalurgy, then he would be a champion. This is likely why choosing a champion will constrict Odium, he will have to limit his power to one person. I wonder also if faith is part of being a champion. The second Elend thinks about his faith that Vin will save him, she is able to start powering his Allomancy

Point of order: I feel that "powering Hemalurgy" is a little misleading. Because when I think of "Ruin powering Hemalurgy", I think of this:

1. Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the metallic arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

Yeah, I'm kind of being pedantic, since Ruin obviously gave Marsh those spikes, but there's nothing to suggest Ruin directly fueled Marsh's metals, as Vin did with Elend.

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Don't worry I don't think you're being pedantic. We have to get the details right or we won't end up with the bigger cosmere picture that we're trying to piece together here. I think I might have been a bit unclear. I don't think that Marsh ever had his metals/Allomancy powered by Ruin, or even that Ruin could have without expending his power in some mysterious way. I was trying to say that if Marsh was Ruin's champion (which I don't believe) then Marsh would have been having his Hemalurgy fueled by Ruin, like Elend's Allomancy was fueled by Vin as Preservation. What fueling Hemalurgy would do though is beyond me. Maybe less power loss? Does that make sense? Or am I crazy? Haha

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I think that the Ascension of Shards is something that we're going to need some more information on. Is it because he was a Feruchemist?

I believe it was a necassary prerequisite, like Vin's Allomancy. But I don't think that just being able to use magic related with the Shard is enough to be able to take it.

edit: Do atium and larasium still exist? If yes, which allomantic metal doesn't alloy with one of them? (There are ‘nearly 50’ metals altogether; and base 16 + 2*16 alloys with atium and larasium + 2 said metals = exactly 50. As I understand, ‘nearly’ imples ‘less than’.)?

Edited by Eri
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Is the rate at which Soulcasting happens fixed? ex: does it always take X seconds to Soulcast Y amount of material, regardless of both original form and Soulcasted form?

I'm thinking if a natural Soulcaster (Jasnah, Shallan) can control the rate of transformation, it could end up being less likely to crack the gems because the Stormlight isn't draining as fast. Or more likely, if they try to Soulcast very quickly, like in combat or other stressful situations.

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Do the shardworlds themselves have an effect on the magics that are created? If Preservation and Ruin had set up shop on a different planet, without other shards being there, would the Three Metallic Arts still have come into existence as we know them?

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If Vin was attuned to Preservation by the Well, thus able to take it, then how and when was Sazed attuned to both Shards?

Don't forget that Sazed also had is rings inside him at one point. Perhaps, they acted as spikes. Though I am not so sure about this one.

Or it could be because he is a feruchemist, and therefore has an equal combination of Ruin and Preservation in his power.

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Why doesn't Sazed use gold Feruchemy to "fix" his problem of being eunuch?

It seems that he wants to be normal so he can be a "real man" for Tindwyl, and the Synod would surely want as many Feruchemists as possible to pass on genes. Is it because it's an old wound, so nothings really damaged anymore, and thus impossible to heal? Or would doing so somehow give the fact that he's a Feruchemist away? Another question.

Can gold Feruchemy be used to heal birth defects or genetic errors, like DNA replicating wrong? Could it heal cancer in yourself?

If gold Feruchemy is using your own DNA to rebuild areas of damage, then it would probably be impossible, since the guide itself is bad.

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I don't think we have definite answers to those questions, but I'll try to shed some light, according to my own understanding. Gold is a little weird anyway.

First, regrowing body parts seems to take a lot of investiture (am I using the term properly here, guys?). In fact, it may be that you'll need to be a gold-gold Twinborn who Compounds regularly in order to do that. Maybe a gold-gold Twinborn and a gold savant on top of that. I am not sure what his status is as a Shardholder, but I was led to believe that Shards don't really have physical bodies, as their bodies and their power and synonymous.

The second question is much fuzzier and will probably require divine Brandon's intervention. I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that birth defects and mutations cannot be healed, but acquired illnesses (such as cancer) can. In the former case, your body has never known what a healthy DNA looks like. In fact, it probably thinks that this birth defect you are having is the way things are supposed to work; so, if I am correct, even if you have the disease fixed with technology, using healing power would revert you back to your old state. The same idea will probably hold for the latter as well - your body once knew what it is to be healthy, and it can recognize that tumors are not part of the definition.

The big problem with gold is that "health" or "healing power" is not really something you can define. In a race of dark eyed humans, a blue eyed individual would be a mutant (technically). Would burning gold turn him into a darkeyes?

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Can gold Feruchemy be used to heal birth defects or genetic errors, like DNA replicating wrong? Could it heal cancer in yourself?

If gold Feruchemy is using your own DNA to rebuild areas of damage, then it would probably be impossible, since the guide itself is bad.

It you tapped healing while you have cancer then it would probably make the cancer grow faster. However, if you stored enough healing then it might make the cancer stop growing.

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I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. They have the ability to replicate humans, dogs, souped up horses, and "skeletons" made of wood, crystal, rock and metal. So since they seem to be able to do it with those things, they probably can do the same with Parshendi. Unless there's something really really weird going on.

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I agree with Zas for the most part, my only question being how would the carapace of the Parshendi be used by the kandra? I have no idea if they'd be able to attach something like that to the exterior of their bodies, and I doubt that they would be able to grow their own. But the whole red and block/white skin would probably be easy for kandra, they can do human skin, transparent, and hair as well.

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Can a kandra duplicate a parshendi carapace?

I have a very strong suspicion not. Carapace is analogous to bone or hair IMO, which Kandra cannot create.

On the other hand, a very skilled Kandra could make their muscles into a very close approximation of the shape, colour, and texture of the carapace, but not its protection.

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Ty for the info, cant wait for those books!

No problem!

For the Parshendi Carapace and Kandra: I would think that, given enough time, a skilled Kandra (ala TenSoon) could use a specific Parshendi's carapace and bones to impersonate a Parshendi. The carapace is mentioned as being attached to the body and has veins/arteries going to and from it, which means that it should be treated as another bone. Thus, the Kandra doesn't digest the carapace and bones and uses both in the impersonation to get the form of the Parshendi correct.

IIRC, there was a Q&A where it was stated that to gain back the power from the Atium, Ruin would have had to metabolize it, just like anyone else, which seems to imply that Shards can take on a physical, humanoid, form. Based on this exchange, I have the following to add to the Cosmere section (I am expecting a RAFO, but one may get lucky):

Can Shards manifest in a humanoid, physical body? If so, is this form similar to the being that is currently attached to the Shard prior to the being's ascension or is the form based off of the Shard's intent? (Ex: if Harmony manifested, would he look similar to Sazed, or something else?) Can a Shard be killed/splintered more easily while in this form?

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I'll post this, even though I think I know what you mean.

You mean a body that exists in the Physical Realm, correct?

Rather than the way that Ruin/Vin appears to those they have a Spiritual Connection (Hemalurgists for Ruin, and believing Allomancers {Elend} for Vin), which is just a form projected from the Cognitive Realm.

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Can Shards manifest in a humanoid, physical body?

We've seen Laras manifesting as the mist spirit, so, in a way, yes. Or do you mean something more physical? (He was able to cut people, so it's kinda physical...)

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I'll post this, even though I think I know what you mean.

You mean a body that exists in the Physical Realm, correct?

Rather than the way that Ruin/Vin appears to those they have a Spiritual Connection (Hemalurgists for Ruin, and believing Allomancers {Elend} for Vin), which is just a form projected from the Cognitive Realm.

We've seen Laras manifesting as the mist spirit, so, in a way, yes. Or do you mean something more physical? (He was able to cut people, so it's kinda physical...)

Yes, a corporeal, humanoid body. As in, it has a stomach so it can burn Atium. ;) Whether the body coalesces out of mist/smoke or exists permanently in the Physical Realm (or something else entirely) is another question.

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