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Gaming the System in Forging


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NECRO!
 
Just an update on the Ruinous hearing discussion:
 
Source:

Ruin in the Cache

So, you’ll notice that Ruin appears to Vin here in the form of Reen. One might wonder why he even needed her to investigate if he could visit the cache himself.

This reveals the main problem Ruin was dealing with in this instance. The Lord Ruler was very clever in how he placed and organized these caches. He planned them in locations where there was so much metal in the ground that it would prevent Ruin from discovering them. And, more importantly, he trained his obligators—Yomen included—not to speak of what was down below or reveal the locations of the caches.

Ruin didn’t know there was a cache here, not until Vin found the previous plate. Even once he knew where the cache was, he couldn’t see much when he visited it. He couldn’t know if there was Atium there, for the entire area—particularly because of the metal cans Vin mentions—glowed so brightly that Ruin had no idea what he was seeing.

He needed a pawn to visit, one through whose eyes he could see. One who could discover where the atium was. Ruin drew the same conclusion Vin did here—that if there had been atium, Yomen would have moved it. But where? Ruin still needed her to find it for him. Either that or bring in an Inquisitor, something he eventually decided to do.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update 3 (TRIPLE DOUBLE POST!!!!!)
 
Some info from Brandon:

Source:

Miyabi (on behalf of Kurkistan :P): Now we are going to move more to some questions on Sel: Would it be easy for a Forger who'd once almost lost her arm (freak guillotine accident) to make a stamp to lose it temporarily, or would it require some more involved Forging than "my arm actually got cut off that one time"?
 
Brandon: No, and-- The more plausible something is the easier the Forging is definitely.
-Note: The tone of the answer is not ambiguous as to the "yes-ness" of this Forging being easy.

 
Then he PAFO'd a question about if Resealing was a subset of Forging, with a lean towards "yes":
 
(See source above):

Miyabi (on behalf of Kurkistan, again :D): Is Resealing a subset of Forging, or a separate system like Bloodsealing is?

Brandon: Um… (another long silence) I’m trying to remember what I decided-- I was building all of this on a fourteen hour plane flight keep in mind-- I believe it is… Let’s go ahead and PAFO that one. I need to go to my notes. I can give you a tentative “I believe it is the same system and not a cousin system” but at the end of the day I kind of had to go to my notes and work things out. There was lots of wiggle room built into the Elantris magic system but I have to know what I decided.

 
EDIT:
 
I PM'd Peter, and he was kind enough to respond toot-sweet. No link because this is literally just a PM between me and Peter, so you'll just have to trust me :).
 

Peter: Shai believes that resealing is a subset of Forging. All evidence I see says that it is. But if Brandon writes something more in that part of the world in the future, the demands of the next story could point toward a different answer.

 

So yes-ish. Ish. I'll take it, though. ;)

Edited by Kurkistan
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We have an indirect citation that it's a cousin system, rather than part of Forging, and Brandon didn't raise a fuss when Miyabi asserted that it was as a given.

 

I can't find said citation for the life of me, though.  :huh:

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It's a separate system, but Shai can't forge the bloodsealed door.

 

""I will place the rune here" he said in an accented voice. "If she leaves this room for any reason or if she alters the rune or the door, I will know. My pets will come for her""

-TES page 42-43

I read this as meaning that she can indeed forge the door.

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""I will place the rune here" he said in an accented voice. "If she leaves this room for any reason or if she alters the rune or the door, I will know. My pets will come for her""

-TES page 42-43

I read this as meaning that she can indeed forge the door.

 

I read this to mean that she can't take a chisel to the rune, or to the door, without him knowing.  I don't see why this necessarily says anything about forging.

 

Incidentally, AFAIK Shai doesn't have any link to her Forged artifacts.  The Bloodsealer does have a link.  Another good bit of evidence that the Bloodsealer's system is different.

On the other hand, I don't think anybody is arguing that they aren't related or connected.  They're both Cosmere magic systems, being in the same book and all.  Therefore they will interact.

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  • 3 months later...

UPDATE:
 
A bit more clarity on the question of Resealing and Forgery:
 

Q: Is Resealing a subset of Forging, or a separate system like Bloodsealing is?

 

Peter: Pretty sure Resealing is in fact a subset of Forgery.

Edited by Kurkistan
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