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SPOILERS! ---Does Kaladin like Shallan, and Vice Versa?---


ChullRider

  

232 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Kaladin Like Shallan?

    • Yes
      149
    • No
      26
    • Maybe
      51
    • ???
      6
  2. 2. Does Shallan like Kaladin?

    • Yes
      99
    • No
      42
    • Maybe
      86
    • ???
      5


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Hmmm. Good point. Never mind, I rescind that part of my headcannon.

 

It was a valid question, one that was often asked. It is common for people to think Shallan would associate Adolin to her father due to the anger he felt, but I think the reason being the murder is what matters. Ultimately, why did he did it? Though it is not improbable Shallan may react negatively, at first, I do think she would see the truth, eventually.

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Somewhere Shallan thinks, that Adolin is not at least similar to Lin Davar, because Adolin is very confident, while Lin's confidence was always played, to hide quite the opposite.

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It was a valid question, one that was often asked. It is common for people to think Shallan would associate Adolin to her father due to the anger he felt, but I think the reason being the murder is what matters. Ultimately, why did he did it? Though it is not improbable Shallan may react negatively, at first, I do think she would see the truth, eventually.

This is kind of what I was thinking. Shallan can be somewhat. . . irrational when it comes to her father. She gets reminded of him, when Adolin tells her he wants to protect her. hopefully, like you said, she would forgive him of it though.

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This is kind of what I was thinking. Shallan can be somewhat. . . irrational when it comes to her father. She gets reminded of him, when Adolin tells her he wants to protect her. hopefully, like you said, she would forgive him of it though.

 

All characters still need to grow... We tend to focus on how Adolin is still immature and how he needs to grow in this relationship, but we sometimes forget Shallan too needs to do the same. I felt the reason she reacted badly to Adolin's words are because she is unable to conceive someone could care for her while not locking her up... After all, her father did love her (in her head he did, in reality, he didn't or he loved her badly), but he imprisoned her to keep her safe. She cannot imagine Adolin could simply want to prevent harm coming her way, which was rather sweet, without planning to rip her liberty.

 

If this ship sails, this is what I believe Shallan would get out of it: learning to let others care for her, the right way.

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Book 3 would see Kaladin being away from Shallan for most part.

I am not truly convinced about Kaladin + Shallan, their interactions seem more sibling like. On top of it, they both have personal daemons and of course there is the little matter of Kaladin killing her brother....I could be wrong though!

I am thinking Kaladin will have lot of interactions with Jashna in Book 3...not sure if anyone has thought of this?

Edited by muco
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I am thinking Kaladin will have lot of interactions with Jashna in Book 3...not sure if anyone has thought of this?

 

I think there are a lot of people who hope they will, me among themselves... Not because I believe they could grow into a romantic ship, but because I think they would be interesting to read. Brandon more or less killed all potential Jasnah romantic ship when he admitted he did not plan to broach the subject of her sexuality unless it becomes relevant. The way he phrased it made me believe he had not such intentions, which kinda of destroy all potential ship ideas. That being said, I still believe a Jasnah/Kaladin interaction would be fun to read.

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Kaladin likes Shallan to some degree, as he's definitely jealous of Adolin after their time together in the chasms. They have some rapport going from their past suffering as well, which obviously surprised Kaladin a lot. I think being friends with Shallan could be very good for him, help him get over some of his issues.

 

Shallan, I think, probably just notices some chemistry with him, but I think she's far too smitten with Adolin to even think about it. To be honest, I like her and Adolin together a lot more at this stage, and besides, Shallan and Kaladin's relationship is effectively sitting on a timebomb given Kaladin killed her brother to get Amaram his Blade and Plate.

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... besides, Shallan and Kaladin's relationship is effectively sitting on a timebomb given Kaladin killed her brother to get Amaram his Blade and Plate.

 

This is actually a very strong clue that Shallan and Kaladin's relationship will be important to the plot (note though that the relationship doesn't necessarily have to be romantic in nature; it could e.g. be reflected as a division in the KR). There are at least three points in WoR where this could have been easily resolved: the 4-Shardbearer duel, the chasm scene, and the confrontation with Amaram.

 

Note the wording Kaladin uses to challenge Amaram:

 

 

“And for my boon!” Kaladin shouted, “I demand the Right of Challenge against the murderer Amaram! He stole from me and slaughtered my friends to cover it up. Amaram branded me a slave! I will duel him here, right now. That is the boon I demand!”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 674). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Remember Shallan is in the stands and is listening. Kaladin says 'stole from' him but does not mention what it was (even obliquely), because if he'd referenced what he stole, it'd resolve the Helaran issue pretty quickly.

 

During the chasm scene, a rationale has to be provided as to why Kaladin tells Shallan everything except for his role in Helaran's death:

 

 

He shivered, but nodded. Voices. Voices would help. “It started when Amaram betrayed me,” he said, tone hushed, just loud enough for her— pressed close— to hear. “He made me a slave for knowing the truth, that he’d killed my men in his lust to get a Shardblade. That it mattered more to him than his own soldiers, more to him than honor . . .”

...

 

He did feel a chill as she mentioned her brother Helaran’s death, anger in her voice.

 

Helaran had been killed in Alethkar. At Amaram’s hands.

 

Storms . . . I killed him, didn’t I? Kaladin thought. The brother she loved.

 

Had he told her about that? No. No, he hadn’t mentioned that he’d killed the Shardbearer, only that Amaram had killed Kaladin’s men to cover up his lust for the weapon. He’d gotten used to, over the years, referencing the event without mentioning that he’d killed a Shardbearer. His first few months as a slave had beaten into him the dangers of talking about an event like that. He hadn’t even realized he’d fallen into that habit of speaking here.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 877). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Kaladin's phrasing is pretty peculiar, since there could have been any number of ways he could have given a hint as to what occurred; in particular he says nothing about him or his men protecting Amaram, which is odd since that's Kaladin's entire shtick.

 

Finally, during Dalinar's confrontation with Amaram, Shallan and Adolin basically pass right by before the event:

 

 

“I hope we’re above such vainglory, old friend,” Dalinar said. They rode for a time, passing Adolin and Shallan again. Dalinar scanned his force and noticed something. A tall man in blue sat on a stone in the midst of Bridge Four’s bodyguards.

 

...

 

He settled back down on a rock, bowing his head. The bridgemen crowded in around him. Hopefully they hadn’t seen Kaladin following Shallan with his eyes, straining to hear her voice. Renarin stood, like a shade, at the back of the group. The bridgemen were coming to accept him, but he still seemed very awkward around them. Of course, he seemed awkward around most people.

 

...

Why were the bridgemen parting? Rock looked over his shoulder, then laughed, backing away. “Now we shall see real trouble.”

 

Behind them, Dalinar Kholin was climbing from his saddle. Kaladin sighed, then waved for Lopen to help him to his feet so he could salute properly. He got upright— earning a glare from Teft— before noticing that Dalinar was not alone.

 

Amaram. Kaladin stiffened, straining to keep his face expressionless.

 

...

 

“What of his claim that you took your Blade and Plate from him?” Dalinar asked.

...

“I thought,” Dalinar said, “that if you had been willing to murder for one Blade, you would certainly be willing to lie for a second. And so, after I knew you’d sneaked in to see the madman on your own, I asked you to investigate his claims for me. I gave your conscience plenty of time to come clean, out of respect for our friendship. When you told me you’d found nothing— but in fact you had actually recovered the Shardblade— I knew the truth.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 931). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Dalinar can't really avoid referencing the Blade and Plate, so Shallan ends up out of range for the discussion. While not necessarily a requirement, it wouldn't have been odd for Dalinar to have brought Adolin along given Adolin's behavior at the prison and given that Adolin is practically right by both of them at the time. Adolin already believes Kaladin (prison scene) and while we don't have direct evidence that Dalinar is aware of that, it's likely that Dalinar has at least some idea given Adolin's actions. So it's odd that Dalinar doesn't bring Adolin - but doing so would also bring Shallan, which would again potentially resolve the Helaran issue too early.

 

If Shallan had an opportunity to learn and talk to Kaladin about Helaran's death in WoR, it would almost certainly have been a non-event. Consider what she thinks about Amaram:

 

 

 

Shallan felt an immediate anger at seeing her brother’s murderer here, but found that it had quieted somewhat. A smoldering loathing instead of an intense hatred. It had been a long time since she’d seen Helaran, now. And Balat had a point in that her older brother had abandoned them.

 

To try to kill this man, apparently— or so she’d been able to put together from what she’d read of Amaram and his Shardblade. Why had Helaran gone to kill this man? And could she really blame Amaram when, in truth, he’d probably just been defending himself? She felt like she knew so little.

 

Though Amaram was still a bastard, of course.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 768). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

 

She's able to provide justifications to herself why Amaram might not have been a murderer (and that Helaran's death might have just been self-defense) despite not really having any rapport with Amaram. It's hard to imagine that, given an adequate opportunity to explain (Kaladin was not just defending himself, but his men - literally his purpose in life) that Shallan would not understand.

 

So clearly, the 'timebomb' is being held in reserve for when Kaladin isn't around to explain the situation. The only one remaining who knows what actually occurred by the end of WoR is Amaram (though tons of people - all of Bridge 4 at least, Dalinar, Navani, plus probably other bridgemen - know what Amaram 'stole' from Kaladin was the Shardblade and Plate) who is unlikely to provide a clear answer. However, the 'timebomb' does not serve a purpose unless there's something to bomb (note that the fact that Shallan thought Amaram killed Helaran had zero plot implications, because they don't have much interaction or relationship); so the fact the 'bomb' exists is a good reason to expect something for the bomb to go off on.

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  • 4 months later...

This post is not nearly as exhaustive or well researched as a lot of these posts, but figure it could be another way to look at things.

 

First, yeah the description in Kal's head for Shallan, and Shallan's head for Kal elicits a sense of sexual attraction from one attractive individual to another, but I feel what actually interests them in each other is more familial. Kal is drawn to Shallan for the way she pushes away the darkness like Tien did. His brother. The banter Shallan and Kal have back and forth harkens back to that with her brothers, who were also passionate and hard. I could see them drawn to each other for the reminders of family and home and become like brother and sister to each other. 

 

Second, and this is a genuine question for all involved in this thread, I know tsundere is in anime, manga, and movies and other books, but in real life has it ever actually worked out for anyone? Seriously. Has anyone here started out and out hating someone and it ends up being love? Because in my own experience, and from people I know all it is is a waste of time and pain. My relationship with my fiance very much resembles the relationship with Adolin and Shallan. We have some differences, but we can joke and be ourselves around each other. I was shocked that a relationship could work so easily after so many past failed ones where I kept trying to force the relationship to work. Yeah in animes, manga, movies and other books the trope is used, but that doesn't mean that is how it is going to play out with Sanderson. He is already subverting the trope in my opinion with the Wax and Wayne series with Wax's relationship with Steris. I don't feel it is a stretch for him to try and take a real look on how relationships develop with this work as well. 

 

That's just my two clearchips. 

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I think there is romantic potential...But I know that Brandon doesn't really like love triangles, and I really hope he doesn't put one splat in the middle of his series. I feel like they are sorta kinda attracted to each other, but I honestly can't see either of them with the other romantically. 

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I think there is romantic potential...But I know that Brandon doesn't really like love triangles, and I really hope he doesn't put one splat in the middle of his series. I feel like they are sorta kinda attracted to each other, but I honestly can't see either of them with the other romantically. 

 

 

There was a love triangle in Mistborn Era 1, and somehting like that in mistborn Era 1.5...

To be honest I'm not sure if BS really dislikes them.

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Well, he doesn't like traditional love triangles. I wouldn't call any of these traditional. 

 

Spoilers for WoA and AoL/SoS/BoM (Very minor)

 

With Vin, Zane was just Ruin's pawn, and he tried to kill her once he realized it wasn't going to happen.

 

With Wax, it was more of a crush, and with SoS and BoM, I really think Wax is starting to fall for Steris, and Marasi has grown up. 

 

With Shallan, she is head over heels with Adolin, and I think she genuinely wants to marry him, both for her house, and for her new political position as Head Lightweaver/Ghostblood spy. Now, weather or not that will last, I can't really say. I think she would easily forgive Adolin's actions against Sadeas, since, yenno, she's a murderer too. Maybe Adolin will die, and she will turn to Kaladin, who knows. But once she finds out who really killed her brother, I don't know if she can forgive that, even if she did understand that Kal was fighting for his life. Kal certainly likes her, but he is way too honourable to try and steal Adolin's girl, plus, he does have an understandable (if unreasonable) hatred of lighteyes. Maybe if he got over that, maybe if Adolin/Shallan doesn't work out, and maybe if Shallan forgives him for killing Heleran. I just don't really think that the male lead and the female lead cliche needs to happen in every book. It worked well in Mistborn, and Elantris was sorta-kinda built around that, but Stormlight Archive is much more plot heavy, than relationship heavy. Kaladin's most important things are his crew, and his job. I don't think (at this time, at least) that Kaladin would concern himself with someone that he can't protect through the desolation. He has already lost so many people, that if it happened again it might snap him back into his depression, which he still hasn't completely recovered from. Kaladin and Shallan work well as friends, but I don't think it will be more than that, at least for a very long time. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Edited by Khyrindor
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The next two quotes happen almost at the same time, from opposite perspectives:

 

 

 

It's pretty hard to argue that there's nothing there.

 

In fact it's pretty clear from their second meeting (the insult-fest as Shallan is trying to get an audience with Dalinar) where this is going; it's classic tsundere. There is so much evidence that it seems almost deliberately misleading.

Ooh, tsundere. New word for me :) .

But to the question. Yes, definitely mutual attraction. I was gonna say Kal is more into her, than vice versa, but she definitely feels an attraction to him that isnt attribited to her being an iquisitive person who enjoys the contrast between who she thought Kal was, and who he actually he is.

Cant wait to find out if shes gonna go the scholar route or the emotional route when she finds out Kal offed Heleran.

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Because in my own experience, and from people I know all it is is a waste of time and pain. My relationship with my fiance very much resembles the relationship with Adolin and Shallan. We have some differences, but we can joke and be ourselves around each other. I was shocked that a relationship could work so easily after so many past failed ones where I kept trying to force the relationship to work.

 

 

Hmmmm this is going to sound unbelievably strange as everyone knows I absolutely love the Adolin/Shallan ship (they are adorable), but I have to admit my own relationship didn't quite started up as theirs...

 

I asked my dear loved one what his first impression of me were...  :ph34r: He used the words insufferable, annoying and noisy (though he specifically says he didn't hate me)  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: while I thought he was boring and soporific  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: We fortunately bonded one faithful evening, watching dumb cartoons intro themes and laughing about them, while waiting for our common friends to walk out of their exam.

 

So huh, I'd say long-term relationships can start between two people who didn't automatically like each other upon first glance, but I'd also say there is nothing but a good laugh to help people move closer to each other.

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I personally believe that Kaladin and Adolin have more chemistry with each other than either of them do with Shallan. With Shallan, the relationships seem to consist of a physical attraction combined with a crush. Adolin spent time in jail because Kaladin was there, not to mention an affectionate nickname and all the times Kaladin saved Adolin's life.

Does anyone happen to know Roshar's ideas about homosexuality?

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We don't know Rosharan views on it, though I wonder if their views on it aren't of much concern to a prince and a Knight Radiant if they cared to be in a relationship?

 

Kadolin would be a great fit. even if it's unintended by Brandon -- in which case I'd invoke death of the author -- I've seen people cite plenty of textual evidence for at least Kaladin being attracted to Adolin. On top of that, it's a resolution to a love triangle that you never really see in any mainstream literature, so another point in their favour! It'd certainly be refreshing to read in a series like SA.

 

If it comes to what's actually likely to canonically happen though... sadly I don't think Brandon would. I don't think he's prepared yet to [intentionally] write two characters as central as Kaladin and Adolin being queer and developing a romantic interest in one another.

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I personally believe that Kaladin and Adolin have more chemistry with each other than either of them do with Shallan. With Shallan, the relationships seem to consist of a physical attraction combined with a crush. Adolin spent time in jail because Kaladin was there, not to mention an affectionate nickname and all the times Kaladin saved Adolin's life.

Does anyone happen to know Roshar's ideas about homosexuality?

I guess it could be something more than just Adolin bro-in out on Kal. But, with the jail sequence, I mean it was, what, the second time Kal put himslef in harms way, without shards, to save Adolin (and Renarin too, in the arena). Which also helped Addy-boy achieve his goal of collecting all those purty purty suits and blades.

About Roshars views on the matter. Alethi, they are pretty weird people. Completely cool with abandoning your comrades, premeditated, in the middle of a joint assault. But talking about it is a no no. Its most likely varied from nation to nation.

People are people are people.

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Everyone seems to be assuming that if a relationship forms between Kaladin and Shallan it will all be cliche and end happily. I can rather see the possibility for some good old fashioned tragedy here. IF it happens

They definitely have the beginnings of feelings but we all know that in real life whether these mutually (when they are a touch ambiguous, a mix of attractions rather than just sexual) become friendships, romantic relationships, something else or one for one and something different for the other can depend on the subtlest of contexts, timings and taken or left chances. The possibility is there, but that same possibility can become friendship, or awkwardness, or even animosity depending on how circumstances change its evolution. So let's wait and see

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I guess it could be something more than just Adolin bro-in out on Kal. But, with the jail sequence, I mean it was, what, the second time Kal put himslef in harms way, without shards, to save Adolin (and Renarin too, in the arena). Which also helped Addy-boy achieve his goal of collecting all those purty purty suits and blades.

About Roshars views on the matter. Alethi, they are pretty weird people. Completely cool with abandoning your comrades, premeditated, in the middle of a joint assault. But talking about it is a no no. Its most likely varied from nation to nation.

People are people are people.

I'd say sadly j can't imagine Sanderson going edgy enough to create an equal, balanced, bisexual one true romantic threesome, but I suppose he did get the polygamy practice from finishing wheel of time...

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Yes, there are quotes in WoR that lead to think Kaladin and Shallan like each other.

And, yes, surely there will be some kind of relationship (probably romantic) between the two, looking at how much effort the author put in the build up of them as a couple.

 

If I had to bet my spheres on an established couple, I would choose them: I have read plenty of elements that make me fear wonder they will end up together :ph34r:

 

Anyway, I can't stand Kaladin x Shallan: too much of a cliché for my own tastes.

Unfortunately, from what I've read of Sanderson, he impressed me for many things... but not for being too much of a clichébreaker (especially on the romantic matter): I mean, even the main couple in Mistborn followed a very established route seen so many times.

 

Kadolin would be a great fit. even if it's unintended by Brandon -- in which case I'd invoke death of the author -- I've seen people cite plenty of textual evidence for at least Kaladin being attracted to Adolin. On top of that, it's a resolution to a love triangle that you never really see in any mainstream literature, so another point in their favour! It'd certainly be refreshing to read in a series like SA.

 

Adolin is the most desired bachelor in all Alethkar and his heart would be won by the Hero who protects him (because Adolin is no Radiant, so he will fill the role of Damsel in Distress in the upcoming Desolation)?

It's no refreshing, it's boring: too much of a cliché, seen so many times...

 

I think it's pretty clear but I will write nonetheless: I'm just kidding on the Adolin/Kaladin topic (like I assume were joking the ones who brought this up) XD

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Just to throw a curve ball into it, I stumbled on a new piece of information... Someone asked Brandon about WoK Prime Shallan and here's what the person got for an answer:

 

In the original version of KINGS, the character in Shallan's place was engaged to a difference character.

 

Now, it is more or less meaningless as all characters were so different back then any union crafted then likely had a much different dynamic. It is however interesting to know Brandon did not originally intend to engage Shallan to Adolin.

 

As for people wondering what would be or would not be a cliche, here's one: The Rich Suitor, Poor Suitor trope which, according to TV Tropes always end up with the Poor Suitor winning to a point where they thought renaming the trope Poor Suitor Wins. In other words, the rich boy never gets the girl: he is either deemed evil or too boring or too dumb, but the fact is he never gets the girl.

 

In that optic, I'd say Shallan ultimately choosing Adolin seems much less of a cliche than Shallan choosing Kaladin.

 

Of course this isn't the only way to look at both relationships, but I thought it was a fun one.

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