Issue with lines of Forbiddance

[Shardlet]

I took the time to go through and search (e-books are great for this stuff) more about the Marks Cross.  It is only mentioned in the illustrations and it appears to have two functions 1) to anchor a line of warding; and 2) to provide addition chalkling attachment points.  There is no indication that the lines of a Mark's cross are lines of forbiddance (LoFs) except that there are/were only four known rithmatic lines.  While a dual wield seems likely to able to produce such a structure with LoFs, it still seems that it would have problems with itself.  I expect however that this is something that will be mentioned in the next book as well as LoFs on movable surfaces and vrtical surfaces.

 

I would also expect that trying to stand on a field of a LoF which is drawn horizontally on a wall would be really really really tricky since it would be essentially a frictionless surface (think mag-lev trains).  You could push directly against it (force applied normal to the plane of the field).  But, if you tried to walk or even shift your center of gravity from a balancing position, you would fall down.  

[Crysanja]

hmm it would be very difficult to draw calklings quickly around a cross, if its made from lines of forbiddens.

 

it cant be a line of warding, because it wouldnt ancor a defence.

 

we only know of lines of forbiddends to fixiate something.

 

i guess you can realy draw crosses and other shapes, until you dicide its finished, then you cant reach over it.

 

remember the labyrinth made of lines of forbiddens? - must have been very difficult when the lines go active when youre done drawing one.

[Shardlet]

So, like I said above, the Mark's Cross is never described as being formed with LoFs.  But, When Fitch duels Harding he uses a Taylor defense with a LoF in each of the outer circles (one-handed) to anchor the circles (see loc. 4534).  However, also of note, in the scene where Joel is with Exton during the chalkling attack on him.  Joel tells Exton to Draw a box around himself and to draw as many lines as he can but not to let them touch except at the corners (see loc. 4042).

Edited July 16, 2013 by Shardlet

[Ender]

Shardlet, if you look at the picture of the Taylor Defense, the illustration states the lines that border some of the outer circles are LoFs. It's possible the part where it says A LoF in the outer circles refers to those lines, not the Mark's Cross.

[Shardlet]

It is possible that that is what is being referred to.  But, I am inclined to think otherwise since the book says in the outer circles.

[junior]

If you drew a horizontal line of forbidding on a wall would you be able to stand on the repulsing wall generated by it?

 

I don't think that it would be a good idea to try.  At one point Joel intentionally tries to test a Line of Forbiddence, and iirc it's compared to two magnets repulsing each other as you attempt to push them together.  If nothing else, the lack of friction in that situation would probably guarantee that you'd be unable to stand up.

[Kurkistan]

We've gotten an answer:
 
Source

Shardlet: I first asked about lines of forbiddance and the timing of the generation of the field particularly in reference to things like a Marks Cross or just general crossing lines of forbiddance.

Brandon: (not verbatim) Rithmatics was originally designed as a cosmere magic system and is very cognitively (not the terminology he used, but the essence is the same) based. The line (speaking of all rithmatic lines) takes effect when the rithmatist thinks it should. A line could begin to take effect before the drawing of the line is completed.

[Shardlet]

I found this to be very compelling info which opens up a lot of speculation, but makes Melodies extraordinary ability with chalklings potentially less singular.  I may ask a question about this today if I get the chance.  This would be the 6th question on my list.

[Crysanja]

somehow we could have known this allready.

think about calklings.

they are drawn and then orders added. we never heared about something to activate them.

why wouldnt they run away when the first move order is drawn? because they are not finished.

[Shardlet]

I haven't seen any indication that the move order move with the chalklings.  I wonder if the orders go poof once complete, if they are simply locked, or if additional instructions could be given after the fact.

 

This also suggests that it is conceivable that a rithmatist could draw a LoF or other lines and have them take effect after a desired length of time.  A LoF time-bomb kind of thing.  Perhaps even take effect after a desired condition is met.  A LoF trap that is sprung when someone crosses a primed LoF?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Shardlet

[Crysanja]

the question would be if you need to keep things in mind to trigger them properly, or you have just to think that it wilil go up in x mins when you draw it, and forget.

 

i think you need to think about things, until they are done.

 

do you need to touch calk to activate it? atleast with the calk pice you draw with?

 

 

at a side note, this could mean that Joel is a rithmatist, but cant draw, because he does not belive it.

[Shardlet]

It is hard to say.  The answer was compelling but not extensively informative and will likely spur several questions.

 

As to Joel, I don't think he is a rithmatist (yet).  All the other rithmatists came out the chamber of inception knowing they were rithmatists.  Joel's experience is more ambiguous.  I suspect that Nalizar's forgotten's perception of Joel at the end is somewhat similar to the shadowblaze's (i.e., Joel is something different and unencountered).  I suspect that the shadowblaze appeared with the intention of doing whatever they do to make someone a rithmatist, but got spooked by Joel's 'strange' nature.