The ultimate defense against chalklings?

[Havoc]

We've seen in the book that non-Rithmatists can use acid to wash away chalklings. If acid does work this way, wouldn't it be extremely easy to set up an acid-filled moat outside the Nebrask tower? You'd need a lot less manpower, as you could just fill it at one end and let it spread out evenly. Rain would just dilute the acid somewhat, which can easily be countered.

[Morsk]

Wow, I thought of this too when I was going to sleep last night. I would've forgotten without this thread.

I don't understand whether acid permanently destroys them, or just disrupts them for a while. The ones at the end of the book were able to reform from acid, so a moat might just slow them down. But there's also the story of how in South America they used acid to keep chalkings from getting in from the north.

[Voidus]

Well you also wouldn't be able to counterattack, you'd protect the army that's there but then they'd just be overrun. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Well you also wouldn't be able to counterattack, you'd protect the army that's there but then they'd just be overrun. 

Load chalklings onto rocks, drop them outside the moat.

[Morsk]

Load chalklings onto rocks, drop them outside the moat.

Or even use something like a drawbridge, and send chalkings across it. I worry that the rock thing might be beyond anyone but Melony, since the chalkings would get confused, but a drawbridge is still simple.

I wonder what happens if chalkings are drawn on posterboard, not on the ground. You could do some pretty annoying things with mobile Lines of Forbiddence.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

How far do lines of forbiddance go, again?

 

Horizontal wall-lines would be really annoying.  Or let you make instant floors and walls? for a building.

 

Heck, maybe use a very thin flat surface, make a lightsaber?

[Voidus]

The height is determined by its thickness IIRC, but at least head high on a person, not sure how it'd work as a lightsaber since we don't know how sharp the edges are.

[Morsk]

The edges probably aren't sharp, since at one point Joel was poking through holes in a broken line. That would be really stupid to do with something like broken glass, and Joel is knowledgeable enough and old enough that I don't think he'd do it if it were that dangerous.

[Voidus]

actually, thinking about it, they'd just be as sharp as the line is thick really, which means you might be able to make a lightsaber out of one, but since thickness also determines height it'd be more like a breadknife

[Kurkistan]

I don't think Lines of Forbiddance have "edges", actually. It's described pretty exactly as like a magnet, and we know it takes a "well drawn" Line to stop a cannonball. Rather than being a wall in the strictest sense, they probably act more like repulsor fields of a certain maximum force: so a thin one can exert enough counter-force to stop someone from sticking their hand through, but not enough to stop a rocket.

 

As for the acid moat, I think that might fail on the scale of Nebrask. The area contained is described as the size of a city, and the Forgotten seem to be at least moderately intelligent and in-control elements on the enemy side. It wouldn't be overly difficult to command chalklings to pile rocks or trees to fill any moat, not to mention the danger involved in making the moat in the first place (since it would have to be within the preexisting circle, unless you want to build another one).

[Nepene]

I don't think Lines of Forbiddance have "edges", actually. It's described pretty exactly as like a magnet, and we know it takes a "well drawn" Line to stop a cannonball. Rather than being a wall in the strictest sense, they probably act more like repulsor fields of a certain maximum force: so a thin one can exert enough counter-force to stop someone from sticking their hand through, but not enough to stop a rocket.

 

As for the acid moat, I think that might fail on the scale of Nebrask. The area contained is described as the size of a city, and the Forgotten seem to be at least moderately intelligent and in-control elements on the enemy side. It wouldn't be overly difficult to command chalklings to pile rocks or trees to fill any moat, not to mention the danger involved in making the moat in the first place (since it would have to be within the preexisting circle, unless you want to build another one).

 

Perhaps you could have mounted acid water balloon turrets on the edge? Enough to disrupt efforts to assault across it. You could still also have a giant chalk circle city to defend against the chalklings. If they did breach the river you could focus your rithmatists on that one point and overwhelm them with sheer numbers. The fewer points you have to defend the more you can focus your forces.

[Yados]

Obviously the perfect defense is acid chalk. 

[Voidus]

Since they project an upwards field, if you drew a line of forbiddance on like the underside of a pole or something, you could use it to create a shield against Chalklings that they wouldn't be able to chew through.

[Kurkistan]

That's simply diabolical, Voidus. You could have it set up so that the entire "hoop" is supported from your side (either the inside or the outside, but the outside in the case of Nebrask), with the bottom deeply recessed to protect it from the elements.

I suppose some intelligent foe with a bit of manpower could contrive to splash acid up there, or climb over on a tree or something, but still...

Edited May 17, 2013 by Kurkistan

[WeiryWriter]

Obviously the perfect defense is acid chalk. 

 

Pardon me if this was joke but unfortunately that's impossible.  Even ignoring the fact that only liquids can be acids, chalk is an alkaline substance which would react with the acid to make water which isn't particularly effective against chalklings.

 

If it could happen though, it would be pretty cool.

[Tarontos]

the fact that only liquids can be acids, 

solids can be acids too they just aren't dynamic. and gases can too the reaction between bleach and ammonia produces acidic gases.

 

not that you other points are not perfectly valid.

 

Voidus

 

"Since they project an upwards field, if you drew a line of forbiddance on like the underside of a pole or something, you could use it to create a shield against Chalklings that they wouldn't be able to chew through."

 

I was under the impression that they could still effect the line of forbiddance with the field, otherwise a gun just couldn't go through.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Tarontos

[theofficetroll]

This opens a whole host of questions about Lines of Forbiddance (and other lines).

Can one direct the Line of Forbiddance or is it always perpendicular? And what is it perpendicular to? If you draw a Line of Forbiddance on a slope, is it perpendicular to the slope or to the Earth?

Could you create a sloped line which you could walk across? Anchor it in whatever appropriate way, then walk across it. Cheap bridge, cheap way over

 

Can Lines be created which are not anchored to the Earth? Could you create a square of Line of Forbiddance on a slate, flip it over, and set it down as a cage over Chalklings (or a person or whatver)?

[Tarontos]

don't forget weather or not they have friction

[Shardlet]

Wow, I thought of this too when I was going to sleep last night. I would've forgotten without this thread.

I don't understand whether acid permanently destroys them, or just disrupts them for a while. The ones at the end of the book were able to reform from acid, so a moat might just slow them down. But there's also the story of how in South America they used acid to keep chalkings from getting in from the north.

 

I also thought of the acid moat.  Remember though, the chalklings Morsk refers to are actually transform Rithmatists.  At the time of the book, the only chalklings known to be hazardous to people are the wild chalklings and chalklings that Rithmatist who drew them lost control of.  therefore, it stands to reason that acid is permanent against wild chalklings.

 

 

As for the acid moat, I think that might fail on the scale of Nebrask. The area contained is described as the size of a city, and the Forgotten seem to be at least moderately intelligent and in-control elements on the enemy side. It wouldn't be overly difficult to command chalklings to pile rocks or trees to fill any moat, not to mention the danger involved in making the moat in the first place (since it would have to be within the preexisting circle, unless you want to build another one).

 

The scale would be challenging, but not insurmountable.  As to the chalklings filling in the moat, I wonder how it is that two-dimensional (entities?) could interact with a three-dimensional objects.  Clearly it is somehow possible since chalklings are used to wind the springs for the springrails.  But I wonder how?

 

 

This opens a whole host of questions about Lines of Forbiddance (and other lines).

Can one direct the Line of Forbiddance or is it always perpendicular? And what is it perpendicular to? If you draw a Line of Forbiddance on a slope, is it perpendicular to the slope or to the Earth?

Could you create a sloped line which you could walk across? Anchor it in whatever appropriate way, then walk across it. Cheap bridge, cheap way over

 

Can Lines be created which are not anchored to the Earth? Could you create a square of Line of Forbiddance on a slate, flip it over, and set it down as a cage over Chalklings (or a person or whatver)?

 

I would expect that the wall of the line of forbiddance would be almost perpendicular to the surface upon which the line is scribed.  I say almost because if the width of the line determines the height of the wall, then I could readily envisage that the field forms an excedingly acute triangle (in cross-section) with the width of the scribed line as the side opposite the smallest angle. In other words, a field generated by a line of forbiddance has two non-parallel sides which angle towards each other until they meet (forming the top of the field) and the angle of incidence between a side of a field to the line of forbiddance is constant from line to line.  This would result in the height of the field being precisely determined by the width of the line from which it is generated.    

 

It is interesting that the scribing of lines on a portable or movable surface is unexplored in the book.  I suspect we will see it addressed in the next.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Shardlet

[Observer]

Joel mentions that if Chalklings were so easy to work with, they'd just carry them in boxes. If portable lines of forbiddence were possible, they'd probably just outline a matchbox with them and keep chalklings inside.

 

IMO, lines probably cannot be moved once drawn, anchoring the surface they're on where it is.

[Tarontos]

Random thought while reading Observer's post, can you draw a line of forbidance on a line of forbidance?

[Observer]

Better: Dig a very thin, long hole downwards and then use a long piece of chalk to make a line of forbiddance exactly the thickness of the hole.

 

EDIT: Not sure what you mean Tarontos. Do you mean drawn two crossing lines? If so, that's a Mark's Cross, a mentioned use of them. If you mean right on top of each other, I doubt it. Getting your hand into the wall would be difficult, and I don't think you can draw on the invisible wall anyways.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Observer

[Kurkistan]

@Tarontos & Observer

 

I believe that this is referring to drawing a line onto the "force field" that a Line of Forbidance projects.

 

I would hazard no, as I believe it's more properly described as a localized repulsive effect inversely proportion to distance from the plane bisecting the Line of Forbiddance lengthwise. It seems that stuff with enough force (such as cannonballs) can "pierce" Lines of Forbiddance, and I would hazard that this does not literally damage the line's blocking effect, but simply bull through it. Joel notes that there is not real surface to the force wall, and so I doubt there's any real surface for a second, perpendicular Line of Forbiddance to be drawn upon.

 

Also, Observer, I'm unsure as to the utility of your strategy. Do you believe that chalklings could not simply traverse the walls of the hole and attack the Line at the bottom? Either way, someone with acid would have a fantastically easy time pouring it all into a trough for maximum dispersal, or perhaps just throwing a bucket at the force wall and watching it all slide down (though, if the whole was truly expertly engineered, you may be immune to acid attacks).

Edited June 17, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Observer]

I'm assuming it's a line that is the exact same thickness of the hole, so the chalklings cannot slip down the hole.

 

I wonder, could you use catapults on the tower to any affect?

[SirShemmington VI]

Is there a possibility of a material chalklings cant move across? I mean, have you tried writing with chalk on glass or other surfaces? I'm sure it says somewhere the surface depends on how durable the chalkings are...