The Arrowverse

[Left]

Yikes, triple posting...but its been three weeks so I guess its chill.

Flash: 

Spoiler

I rate it as not bad. There was enough stuff that was really quite good that it outweighed the boring parts of the episode. 
The humor was basically on point this episode, and really, when you have the actor who's been in Harry Potter and the first of the new Apes movies, there should be some pretty good jokes. HR interacting with Earth 2 Wells was funny, although I guess they didn't have enough effects budget left to make it more realistic looking. 
I didn't really like Grodd, or Gorilla city. The effects were good for a tv show, but my mind automatically compares them to the absolutely gorgeous rendering in the new Apes movies. 

Caitlyn and Felton finally becoming a thing, can i hear a big round of YES! 
So there were some highlights, and then a lot of time that was very mellow. 

 

Legends: 

Spoiler

Huh. So...They do realize that by effectively supporting the creation of the kingdom of Camelot, they just created a flipping HUGE time aberation right? That could realistically have a gargantuan effect on history and western society. 

Other than that, VERY YES, VERY FUN. Ray Palmer taking down an army using a...cattle prod sword?...I don't know, it was cool. Mick using his mental fortitude and scars to overwhelm the rest o the army? YES. 

I was pretty impressed by several parts of this episode, and I thought it was cool that Capt Lance didn't end up just automatically seducing the queen. I know she's a stud, but her seducing every woman through history gets a little old when culturally it would have made little sense. 

 

Arrow: 

Spoiler

How can an episode have that many good ingredients and still be bleh??? 
Basically Arrow has continued to irk me with how much cheap drama there is, how little plot, and how forced character development is. I may not be returning for season 6. 

 

[Dunkum]

One thing I saw suggested for Legends is that

Spoiler

the whole camelot thing was created using the spear before they slit it apart, so that it is not an aberration.  the show itself never mentions this though, and Stargirl's actual words might contradict it

 

[Quiver]

... I have finally finished the Invasion crossover.

I'm slowly getting up to date...

[Modal Seoul]

Anyone seen Supergirl? It's actually crazy good. And it finally...FINALLY...introduced the most powerful being in the DC Universe, Martian Manhunter.

[Left]

I tried Supergirl, but I couldn't make it past the first few episodes of season one. I've heard season two is much better, but I still haven't felt the need to watch it. 

 

My reviews for the shows will will be written after this week's episodes. I ran out of time last week, and I would really like to see how events pan out before I comment since all three shows had major events. 

[Dunkum]

I've been watching Supergirl. In fact, this season, I would rank it 2nd after Legends of Tomorrow.  Flash and Arrow are fighting for 3rd place, and I think Arrow is winning that, which I would never have guessed after their 3rd season.Flash's first season, but here we are.

[Left]

Alright, so I'm going to rush in my reviews before this week's episodes. I meant to do it over the weekend but was too busy...But it was a fun busy

 

Alrighty

Flash: 

Spoiler

I'm pretty satisfied with how Savitar is coming back into the world. I was a little worried that the writers would get lazy with it and make it feel really cheap, but it was actually well done. Wally's emotional conflicts, that largely come from Barry's crap, made a good motive to try and beat Savitar. Savitar being several steps ahead and masterminding his own rescue worked better than I thought it would as well. 

Rescuing Wally was cool. I love it whenever the Speed Force starts taking on an active role in correcting Barry's screw ups. 

My problem is that right now the show is still being more depressing than positive. Flash is at its best when there's positivity and optimism. I mostly blame the current situation on the writers forcing the Barry/Iris romance. Barry has been obsessive, creepy, and the relationship seems really unhealthy. Again, I'm still bitter that Patty didn't work out. 

Still, this season has improved and is definitely better than season 2. The musical crossover will be fun to watch! 

 

Legends: 

Spoiler

Prof. Stein spontaneously breaking into a pub song. Ray geeking out on the moon. Rip realizes that Sara is by far a better captain and doesn't try to take over. Amaya learns the truth and realizes that the awkward romance going on isn't going to work out very well. 
YES!!!! There's not much that I don't like about this season, and this episode shows why. The villains are excellent, the protagonists work well together, and the writers are having such a fun time with it all. It all just makes the show a ton of fun. 

I'm really excited that Snart is finally coming back, and the fact that they're going back to the vanishing point to do it makes a lot of sense. 

So I'm looking forward to season three and thinking about changes I hope to see. 
Amaya will obviously be leaving, but I could see Vixen taking her place. It won't be a big deal to me since I'm not overly attached to Amaya, but I do hope that whoever replaces her continues to be a uniquely strong woman. Maybe Gideon could become a fully embodied Legend. 

I'm also getting hints that Stein might die by the end of this season. I'm not sure how that would affect Firestorm, and I really love Stein, so I'm worried about it. 

If I had to choose one character to lose for season 3, I would be tied between Ray and Nathan. They're good together, but sepperately I don't enjoy either one very much. Nathan gives off a very arrogant dude bro vibe, while still apparently a nerd, and it doesn't work for me. Than Ray has always been a male Felicity, and I'm tired of it by now. 
So who would I want as replacements? Constantine would obviously be great, and he would bring a very unique set of skills to the table. He's also gotten his own little cartoon on the CW seed, so I could see it happening. They could poach Tom Feldman from Flash if he leaves after Flash season 3, or Ragman/Rory if he quits team arrow. Of the heroes in the DC universe that I'd like to see introduced, Nightwing and Greenlantern are the only two off of the top of my head that I'd like to see. Nightwing would obviously be a problem since Batman so far has been excluded entirely from the multiverse, and I would expect Greenlantern to appear in Supergirl, not Legends. 

Arrow: 

Spoiler

Awhhh...First, I was wrong. Adrian is prometheus, not Tommy. 
Second, Adrian had a lot more charisma as DA than as prometheus. 

I'm really not getting where Felicity/Helix storyline is going. 

Seriously, couldn't they just have Cisco open a breach and toss Adrian into a volcano? There's got to be a better way of doing this than another eight episode sequence worrying about how to take down the villain. Damian Darkh was bad enough. 

 

[Quiver]

Semi-rambling side note: I wonder what the "original" Arrowverse timeline looked like.

I mean, the whole point of the first season of the Flash was that Thawne had screwed up the timeline, resulting in Barry becoming the Flash years before he was supposed to. And that mucking in the timeline has had effects which would have ratcheted across everything else:

- Oliver is going to be older and (even more) experienced by the time Barry get's his powers and starts being a hero. But Barry was (one of) the reasons why Oliver finaly started to lighten up some; not the only reason, by any means, but certainly an important factor in making Oliver and Team Arrow re-evaluate their methodology. Presumably Oliver will still face down Ra's, Darkh and Prometheus, since Barry hasn't really factored into any of that; but not having a super speed pal means he might take his season five "kill when necessary" approach sooner, out of sheer necessity.
- According to the future newspaper, Hawkgirl was involved in the Crisis. I have no idea how she and Carter survive Vandal Savage in the present without Team Flash; maybe Vandal gets held up somewhere, giving Kendra and Carter time to become superheroes and have a career in the present before he offs them?
- Snart and Rory probably don't get their guns, and remain normal criminals. At worst, they get them after the particle accelerator accident.
- Stein and Ronnie might become Firestorm eventually, depending on if they happen to still be in Central City when the accident happens. Without the accelerator accident, Jax probably scores his scholarship and goes to college, so... good for him.

If we assume that the "normal" timeline had no time travel, period?

- Ray and Sara aren't going to join the Legends. Both of them were looking for purpose in their lives. I imagine Ray probably would have become a more permanent addition to Team Arrow, while Oliver would reach out to Sara following the stuff with Laurel in season four. So, they are both probably going to be full-time additions to Team Arrow.
- Since Team Arrow will consist of (minimally) Oliver, Sara, Ray, Felicity, Sparta and Curtis, Oliver probably doesn't decide to start recruiting. There is a pretty solid experience pool of heroes there, so they probably just won't bother bringing Reneé or Artemis into things. Rory is a bit of a grey area; Havenrock is going to happen in the timeline anyway, so he's totally a piece of the board. The big question is whether Oliver decides to recruit and train him, or if he's going to send him packing.
- On the plus side, Quentin probably has more of a relationship with Sara than he does in the show at the moment, so if he still ends up hitting the bottle, it might not be quite as hard. It does mean that Thea probably isn't going to become his honorary daughter though.
- Without joining the Legion, Malcolm is still going to be a wild card, one who is now one hundred percent focused on ruining Oliver's life. So that feud probably gets ratchetted up in intensity, pretty damnation quickly. Frankly, Oliver should be thanking Thawne; if he hadn't recruited him, Oliver would probably be fending off attacks by both of the Dark Archers.
- Thawne didn't seem to expect Flashpoint, so that's a good argument for "that wasn't part of the original timeline". So, that means all the things Barry changed aren't going to have happened: that's good. Whether or not the bad future of Grant Wilson is going to be averted is another question entirely; it might just be that John's kid becomes the new Black Canary in a lawless wasteland rather than being the new Green Arrow in a lawless wasteland.

Anything else jump out at anyone?

Edited March 22, 2017 by Quiver

[Left]

On 3/22/2017 at 2:08 PM, Quiver said:

Semi-rambling side note: I wonder what the "original" Arrowverse timeline looked like.

Anything else jump out at anyone?

Well, Supergirl wouldn't know about Earth...er, 1? Which earth are we on right now hahaha? Earth 1 version 5?

The Aliens crossover invasion would go very differently. I assume Firestorm, perhaps the Hawks, Ray, and Team Arrow would still fight the aliens, but without Cisco's vibes and Flash's speed....I don't know, I can't imagine it would go well. Although maybe the invasion wouldn't have happened in the original timeline in the first place. 

 

Alright, I finished catching up this afternoon. 

Flash 

Spoiler

Hey hey, I like it. Mostly. Everything in the musical worked very well. Stein, Kara, and Merlyn all made excellent appearences. It was also cool for me to see Martian Manhunter in action without having to watch Supergirl. 

The idea of Music Meister is neat, but maybe not executed as well as it could have? I don't know what he's like in the comics, but his kind of Hoidish vibe was interesting. I just don't understand why he does what he does, and maybe I'm not supposed to, but it was confusing. 

I did not like the end, the whole Barry (obviously faking it) seranading Iris and her being like, Oh yeah, you can sing, LETS GET MARRIED. Ummm...At least in my experience, that's not how real relationships work. 

Legends

Spoiler

I loved this episode, so much happened, and it rocked. Mick finally cracked and broke with the team, Snart is resurected from pre legends timeline, and the staff is reunited, and then stolen. 

First, Mick broke my heart. I was worried about this....I've really grown fond of him....he's gonna die isn't he 

Second, Snart coming back wasn't neccesarily as cool as I thought it would be. I was expecting more from it. I guess I was expecting them to rescue him from some kind of frozen time zone, not evil snart to reappear. 

Tolkien and WW I, well done. 

As a religious person I really like that they're gonna respect the time around Christ and not mess with that. If they did it would probably make me pretty uncomfortable, and I appreciate that they'll leave it at kind of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade levels. 

Arrow

Spoiler

Woah I did not see all that coming. That got DARK. It's making me rethink the entire first season. I mean...woah. 

Ummm, yeah, good episode. Little messed up. But dang, Arrow just had its best episode in seasons. 

 

[Dunkum]

on the Flash musical episode.  while I don't think that was Grant Gustin singing live, it probably was actually him singing, and in show it was presumably supposed to be Barry singing live (though I agree it definitely sounded like they recorded it separately).  In fact, I would be surprised if any of those songs weren't actually being sung by the cast, even if the sound was recorded or remixed separately.  something like half of them have been in actual musicals and most of the rest were on Glee.  there is a lot of musical talent there, for some reason.  more importantly though, while it wasn't perfect, and the ending (both of the inner musical and of the episode itself) was cheesey, it was also the most fun the Flash has been since...i want to say the Christmas 2015 episode, so since the middle of season 2.

on Arrow: yea, that was a very very dark episode, but a very effective one too.  I like prometheus as a villain now that we can see his identity.  the actor ratcheted the intensity up to 11 for these last couple of weeks, and it  is working.

[Left]

Flash: 

Spoiler

I really liked this episode except for a few things. I don't get where the villain came from, aside from the future obviously. Like, why is he so far back in time, and if he's from so far in the future why is he an enemy with this Flash? 
Caitlyn's abrupt crash at the end of the episode felt very, very out of no where. I get that she needs to turn back to Killer Frost, but why not have her transform after the initial surgery started to fail, not after the surgery works, she stabilizes, and then that weird crash. 

But those are nitpicks. I just bring them up because those little flaws in writing bother me and break my suspension of reality. 

Cisco and Gypsy I liked, and I'm wondering if Gypsy's partner was Cisco's doppleganger on Earth 19. 

No H.R. almost the whole episode, very little Kid Flash too. I get why they minimized Wally to just helping Barry capture the Abra Kadabra, but I'm curious if HR's absence is foreshadowing of something. 

Since we're likely to get an answer to Who is Savitar next episode, I'm going to lock in my final guess. HR, or possibly an evil version of Kid Flash. I think it's slightly possible that it's an evil version of Earth 2 Flash, but I don't think it is. I really don't think that it's Julian, since he's already been revealed as Alchemy.  

Legends: 

Spoiler

I love it when Rip is doing something unique. I honestly think he's at his best when he's not trying to be all Wise Captain and he's just having fun. 

They really did a much better job on this episode than I thought they would. Mick's redemption made me so proud of the big guy, and the interplay between the Legion was a lot of fun. Nate's basement and his mum's sandwiches were beautiful. I'm really looking forward to the finale next week and seeing how everything goes down. 

Arrow 

Spoiler

Dang bruh, Arrow really has actually gotten good again. I loved Diggle's time with Oliver. I'm impressed with the way they had the team working on several different threads working to take down Chase and then tied it all together into a perfect solution. Just unmask the villain and get law enforcement on him. Oliver and Anatolly...I really feel bad for Anattolly. He wants to be a good man so badly, but he's had five years of having to make impossible decisions in an organization that doesn't want him to be a good man. I would watch a spin off show on Anatolly. 

I'm really confused about where this Helix storyline is going. If they end up being the season finale villain, I'm going to be crazy dissapointed. But It would also be really weird pacing wise to spend a couple episodes now taking them down before a big show down with Chase. Mayhaps they team up for the finale and it's only with Ragman's help that the team pulls through. 

Chase's performance as a villain has definitely grown on me. His brooding manipulations and obsessiveness, while also understanding Oliver at a very deep level, really give him the kind of charisma that Dhark never quite had and Ra's never approached. 

 

[Left]

Sorry, I promised to get this posted earlier but with finals I've just had time to watch Arrow. 

Flash: 
 

Spoiler

I really wasn't expecting what we got with this episode. That being said, despite the dark world of the future, there was hope and the episode was really good. Old Barry wasn't great, but almost broken Cisco was absolutely fantastic. I was really surprised at how focused the episode was. Once Barry went into the future it was completely focused there and left the rest of team flash in limbo. Oh, and before I forget. Future H.R. Daaaang Boi, he sure took care of himself well. 

So the obvious question now is, who is Savitar? We assumed that he would be revealed this episode, but apparently not. It worked well this way though. HR seems to be clean, which surprised me. Of the members of team flash, Wally is the only one left who could be Savitar, but Caitlyn's reaction does seem to point to it being someone else. I've seen a TON of theories that Savitar is Ronnie. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that. I'm not sure how Ronnie would become so evil, but he is the only one I can think of that would cause Caitlyn's reaction.  

Great episode, I can't wait for the next one. 

Arrow

Spoiler

Felicity's Helix storyline seems to have climaxed for the season, with a possible villain set up for next season. I can't help feeling that it would've been better if Felicity had died accidentally in the raid on Argus. She doesn't contribute to the show much, and her death could drive Oliver to some very interesting places. 
Renee and Lance were fantastic again, I love their chemistry as characters. Renee's reunion with his daughter was awesome, and his character development was great. 
I'd really like for the first half of the next season, or maybe the second half whichever works, to be a huge showdown between Argus and Helix. And I mean huge. I know it's the CW, so their scale is usually pretty limited, but I think that if they could spend some extra money on it and make it something especially epic and intense and dark that the show would move to a great new place. I'm thinking at least something as big as Deathstroke's invasion of Starling City in the last episodes of season 2. 

 Anyway, the verdict: Pretty good episode. Renee/Lance are great partners, there's some potential setup in Diggle/Lydia/Argus, and Helix would make a great villainous organization for half a season next season. But, Felicity should've died. 

 

[Left]

Flash: Serious Spoilers below. Like, seriously, don't read unless you already know the identity of Savitar. 

Spoiler

Huh. I didn't see that one coming. Ummmmm.....Flash is his own greatest villain. 
I'm still processing it honestly. Maybe this could end up being really cool and a fantastic way to force Barry to become positive and force the show to season one vibes. 
Killer Frost's reaction to Barry being Savitar shouldn't have been that extreme though right? Like, would she really instantly trust evil Barry so quickly?

I was impressed with Joe and Cecile, I liked that they're progressing and that Joe told her. One of the biggest flaws in the Arrowverse has been the heroes being reluctant to share with their friends. Cough Patty, Cough William, Cough Moira, Cough etc. 

Was there really nothing better that Julian could do the whole episode but whine? I'd have loved it if he decided that he was tired of Cisco being a man and not being pushed around, and just built himself some techno wiz gadget to fight Killer Frost himself. 

I did love the Harry Potter style show off between Cisco and KF, I'm betting that was purposefully done and I really liked it. 

Arrow: 

Spoiler

Awh Braize no!!! WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THIS EPISODE??? NO ONE WANTS OLLICITY. THAT WAS EXACTLY THE LAST THING YOU NEEDED TO DO WITH THIS EPISODE. C'MON. REALLY?

Ughhhhhh. I've never really complained a lot about Ollicity before, but gosh, that was awful. Please, just kill her off. PLEASE. 

Seriously though, they didn't even have a normal flashback sequence, they just had that really random stuff that felt SO out of tone. 

Basically, the only thing I liked about this episode was Lyla's hair. You go girl, your hair is beautiful and I love it. 

 

[Left]

I've been holding off on reviewing any more episodes since no one else is commenting, but HOLY CREM. The ending of the last episode of Arrow had me like part of a Sanderlanche. 

But first, let's go through the surprise ending (except was it a surprise? Like, on the one hand I'm surprised but on the other hand we've known for months that this was Supposed to happen) .

Spoiler

So Iris was killed. And I'm hoping that she Really is dead. And please stormfather, let Barry be less of an idiot than normal and not mess up the time line again. if that happens than this season will have been by far the stupidest of the three. 
I'm sorry to say this, but honestly, I was kind of relieved that Iris died. I mean, maybe Patty can come back now 
Is anyone else really bothered by Savitar being a time fragment of Barry? I get that it's the result of a paradox, but I don't see how the paradox could have been created in the first place. The Barry remnant that becomes Savitar was created to defeat Savitar after Iris is killed by Savitar. So Savitar appears from thin air and kills Iris, Barry creates remnant, remnant becomes Savitar. 
But without a Savitar to start with, there would be no one to kill Iris right? So no time remnants to vanish and become Savitar. It doesn't make sense, Savitar should only exist if Savitar exists, and Savitar doesn't naturally exist. Ugh....Timey Wimey wibbly wobbly. 

I'm not sure exactly how this season is going to end...I mean, Caitlyn is very stuck as Killer Frost....With season four we should be getting a new Wells right? But HR can't go home..... Is HR gonna die? I mean, on the one hand I want a new Wells because having a new Wells every season is awesome, but on the other hand HR is so adorable.....

Alright, and here's Arrow

Spoiler

WUT THE BRAIZE
And no, I'm not saying Wut the Braize about Ollicity although it makes me want to puke. 
DEATHSTROKE IS COMING BACK!!!! I'm SO Hyped. Deathstroke is The arrowverse villain. I mean really, he outshines the rest by miles. 

So for the final showdown we're looking at Oliver/Merlin/Slade/Nyssa/Ragman(?) vs Adrian/Evil Canary/Talia/Artemis ? PLEASE YES! Just give us the first thirty minutes as a serious stealth op and showdown between the teams, then a nice fifteen minutes of wrapping up threads and prepping for season 6. And I guess fit in some time for the final flashback. 

Does anyone know what they're gonna do about flashbacks for season 6? It's such an integral part of the show, but I don't know what more could be done... I guess we could have flashbacks for the villain, that'd be cool, but I have two problems with that. First, Arrow works best when it has a halfboss that's charismatic enough to hold the show up for half the season and then lets the real big bad take over. Flashbacks for the villain would almost certainly undermine that. Secondly, flashacks for the villain would probably give away Who the villain is, which is traditionally a bit of a mystery. 

 

I'm incredibly pumped for the finale, and really curious about how the show is gonna transition into season 6. 

Also: Kill felicity. Just do it. I don't know who's keeping her alive in the writers room, but someone needs to take them out. 

 

[Dunkum]

they went on that month long hiatus, and at the end of it, I no longer felt like giving over my weeknights to them, so I havent been watching.  been reading recaps though, and I may have to tune in for the season finales next week.  especially Arrow's, given what I understand happened this week

[Quiver]

On 5/19/2017 at 0:42 AM, Left said:

I've been holding off on reviewing any more episodes since no one else is commenting, but HOLY CREM. The ending of the last episode of Arrow had me like part of a Sanderlanche. 

But first, let's go through the surprise ending (except was it a surprise? Like, on the one hand I'm surprised but on the other hand we've known for months that this was Supposed to happen) .

  Hide contents

So Iris was killed. And I'm hoping that she Really is dead. And please stormfather, let Barry be less of an idiot than normal and not mess up the time line again. if that happens than this season will have been by far the stupidest of the three. 
I'm sorry to say this, but honestly, I was kind of relieved that Iris died. I mean, maybe Patty can come back now 
Is anyone else really bothered by Savitar being a time fragment of Barry? I get that it's the result of a paradox, but I don't see how the paradox could have been created in the first place. The Barry remnant that becomes Savitar was created to defeat Savitar after Iris is killed by Savitar. So Savitar appears from thin air and kills Iris, Barry creates remnant, remnant becomes Savitar. 
But without a Savitar to start with, there would be no one to kill Iris right? So no time remnants to vanish and become Savitar. It doesn't make sense, Savitar should only exist if Savitar exists, and Savitar doesn't naturally exist. Ugh....Timey Wimey wibbly wobbly. 

I'm not sure exactly how this season is going to end...I mean, Caitlyn is very stuck as Killer Frost....With season four we should be getting a new Wells right? But HR can't go home..... Is HR gonna die? I mean, on the one hand I want a new Wells because having a new Wells every season is awesome, but on the other hand HR is so adorable.....

Alright, and here's Arrow

  Hide contents

WUT THE BRAIZE
And no, I'm not saying Wut the Braize about Ollicity although it makes me want to puke. 
DEATHSTROKE IS COMING BACK!!!! I'm SO Hyped. Deathstroke is The arrowverse villain. I mean really, he outshines the rest by miles. 

So for the final showdown we're looking at Oliver/Merlin/Slade/Nyssa/Ragman(?) vs Adrian/Evil Canary/Talia/Artemis ? PLEASE YES! Just give us the first thirty minutes as a serious stealth op and showdown between the teams, then a nice fifteen minutes of wrapping up threads and prepping for season 6. And I guess fit in some time for the final flashback. 

Does anyone know what they're gonna do about flashbacks for season 6? It's such an integral part of the show, but I don't know what more could be done... I guess we could have flashbacks for the villain, that'd be cool, but I have two problems with that. First, Arrow works best when it has a halfboss that's charismatic enough to hold the show up for half the season and then lets the real big bad take over. Flashbacks for the villain would almost certainly undermine that. Secondly, flashacks for the villain would probably give away Who the villain is, which is traditionally a bit of a mystery. 

 

I'm incredibly pumped for the finale, and really curious about how the show is gonna transition into season 6. 

Also: Kill felicity. Just do it. I don't know who's keeping her alive in the writers room, but someone needs to take them out. 

 

I have giben up on avoiding spoilers. I'm going to settle for "if the episode is good, I'll watch regardless".

So... yeah. Man. Arrow season 5. Can we talk about this for a minute? Because this year has been amazing for Arrow, in my opinion. I like Legends for it's goofiness, but it remains the weakest show for me; typically, Flash has been the best of the three... but this year, I think Arrow really came out ahead.

[Dunkum]

2 hours ago, Quiver said:

I have giben up on avoiding spoilers. I'm going to settle for "if the episode is good, I'll watch regardless".

So... yeah. Man. Arrow season 5. Can we talk about this for a minute? Because this year has been amazing for Arrow, in my opinion. I like Legends for it's goofiness, but it remains the weakest show for me; typically, Flash has been the best of the three... but this year, I think Arrow really came out ahead.

agree with you on Arrow, been a great season thus far, though I would still rank 1 and 2 above it.  but i cannot agree that legends is the weakest show.  season 2 of legends is easily one of the top 3 bets seasons they have done across all 4 shows.  arrow 2 is better, and flash 1 might be, but considering each season as a whole, it easily bests everything else available (flash 2 would beat it, and be at the top, if it had ended at christmas.  nearly everything that came after that 2nd christmas special has been consistently terrible)

[Steeldancer]

Flash season 3 was fantastic. Haters gonna hate (I blame season 2) but it was fantastic. I'm glad they didn't kill iris, but i hope they keep HR in all new forms dead. I loved him, but let's let a death be a death. I saw it coming, but it didn't make it any less emotional. I appreciate that Caitlyn isn't just going to go back to normal, and that kid flash is now being given free reign. I know they'll bring Barry back, but maybe give wally an episode alone????

Edited May 25, 2017 by The Flash

[Left]

Alright, season finale reviews are here: 

Flash: 

Spoiler

I would have been surprised by the HR/Iris swaperoo except I read a theory online last week that predicted it happening. On the one hand, it's a great death for HR. On the other hand, really? Can't Iris die?
This was honestly only an okay episode. Barry trying to be friends with BadBarry was pretty meh, and didn't add anything that shouldn't already have been in place. It should have been addressed a lot earlier that IF they did fail and Iris died, Barry needed to be okay and not freak out so badly that he created Savitar while trying to defeat Savitar. I mean, really, if they'd made Barry all zen and chill then Savitar never could've been created even if Iris was killed. I pointed out last time that the Savitar paradox made basically no sense, and I feel like this episode really kinda confirmed that. 

My last complaint is, SERIOUSLY HR DIED. No one freaked out, even a little, except for the new scientist lady. HR Wells was special to Cisco? I DON'T THINK SO. He barely blinked an eye after he was brutally killed. Seriously, he was the most likable iteration of Wells, and the most likable member of team Flash this season, and everyone's just like...meh, we'll find a new Wells to replace him. Even at the funeral they're all so....Happy? It's like they're happy that the coffee addict is gone  I'm not okay with how they finished the HR character arc. 

So that was a lot of negative, I'll switch over to positives now. The confrontation with Black Flash was pretty awesome. I wasn't expecting a visit from him, but it made sense and was really cool. Is he really dead now though? 
The final showdown against Caitlyn and Savitar was pretty cool, not perfect, but cool. 
Killer Caitlyn is finally merging her personalities! Thank goodness! Honestly, Caitlyn was so broken and brittle that it was probably hard to know what to do with her. Killer Frost got pretty old after a while too. I think that there's a LOT of really cool directions they could go with Killer Caitlyn though, and aside from the next Wells I'm looking forward to her the most. 

The season started off really rough, but it's gotten better, and it has definitely improved over season 2. Season 3 definitely didn't get as good as the first season, but it's worked to address and move past the flaws in the second season. Hopefully season 4 will continue the trend and keep the showing moving and improving. 

 

Arrow: 

Spoiler

Let's see, what did I order for the season finale? An hour of non-stop battle, confrontation, and showdowns between the expanded team Arrow and Chase's crew, with a decent finish to the flashback sequence. 
And what did I get? 
Pretty much exactly that!!! That was a great finale, far above Season 3 &4's. There was too much time on Felicity, Thea/Merlin, and Curtis, and a notable absence from the Ragman, but otherwise that was pretty darn awesome. Slade was storming fantastic, I Really hope he can rejoin the arrowverse. Perhaps the Legends could use Deathstroke?  

So.....how many dead are there? Here's who I think is still alive: 
Merlin (Offscreen death, there's no way he's actually dead.)

Felicity (As much as I hate it, it looks like they're trying to bring back Olicity) 

Lance/Renee ( They still have their story line with Renee's kid to tie up, they're not dead yet. And there's no way they'd kill off Lance without a proper send off) 

Diggle ( I mean...again, I don't see them killing him off without a proper send off) 

Artemis and the Al'ghuls ( I think it's likely that Artemis will be prominent in the first few episodes of season 6 as a minor villain, but will be locked away quickly or die. Talia and Nyssa...ehh, same reason as Merlin. ) 

Curtis? I'm not sure about him honestly, but he probably survived. 

So that leaves: Thea, William's mum, Slade, and capt boomerang who could have died. 
Thea makes the most sense to kill. Her character has been backing out for a long time, and it would punish Oliver well, while still giving him incentive to become closer to William.

William's Mum: Her dying would also be a good incentive for William to actually be on the show and closer to Oliver. I'm making the assumption that he won't be hiding in the background anymore and the showrunners want some young blood. 

Slade: I really hope he didn't die because there's so many interesting things to do with the character, but if they can't get the actor to commit to the arrowverse than they may have decided to just kill Slade off. 

Cap Boomerang: Meh, could be dead, could be alive, don't care. 

 

As a season, this is the best Arrow has been since season 2. There Have been issues, usually involving Felicity, but there have also been Reaaaaally good episodes and some great character arcs. 

 

With all three shows having their seasons done I'm going to rank them by best current season and by best series over all. 

This year's shows go as follows: 
Legends for it's huge comeback, great villains, pacing, adventure, and more likeable heroes. 

Arrow in second for it's huge comeback as well but poorer pacing and a re emphasis on felicity that no one wants. 

Flash in third for a better season, but one that was still filled with flaws and had a weak beginning. 

 

Over all: 
Arrow for two fantastic seasons, one very good one, and two poor ones. It's hard to be a long running CW show and not have rough spots, but Arrow has done pretty well for itself and shown that it can still shoot true. 

Legends for a pretty mediocre first season with nice highlights, and an absolutely Rocking second season that had very few flaws. 

Flash comes in third because the second season and beginning of the third season were just SO bad, and it hasn't improved enough yet to redeem itself. 

[Quiver]

10 minutes ago, Left said:

Alright, season finale reviews are here: 

Flash: 

  Hide contents

I would have been surprised by the HR/Iris swaperoo except I read a theory online last week that predicted it happening. On the one hand, it's a great death for HR. On the other hand, really? Can't Iris die?
This was honestly only an okay episode. Barry trying to be friends with BadBarry was pretty meh, and didn't add anything that shouldn't already have been in place. It should have been addressed a lot earlier that IF they did fail and Iris died, Barry needed to be okay and not freak out so badly that he created Savitar while trying to defeat Savitar. I mean, really, if they'd made Barry all zen and chill then Savitar never could've been created even if Iris was killed. I pointed out last time that the Savitar paradox made basically no sense, and I feel like this episode really kinda confirmed that. 

My last complaint is, SERIOUSLY HR DIED. No one freaked out, even a little, except for the new scientist lady. HR Wells was special to Cisco? I DON'T THINK SO. He barely blinked an eye after he was brutally killed. Seriously, he was the most likable iteration of Wells, and the most likable member of team Flash this season, and everyone's just like...meh, we'll find a new Wells to replace him. Even at the funeral they're all so....Happy? It's like they're happy that the coffee addict is gone  I'm not okay with how they finished the HR character arc. 

So that was a lot of negative, I'll switch over to positives now. The confrontation with Black Flash was pretty awesome. I wasn't expecting a visit from him, but it made sense and was really cool. Is he really dead now though? 
The final showdown against Caitlyn and Savitar was pretty cool, not perfect, but cool. 
Killer Caitlyn is finally merging her personalities! Thank goodness! Honestly, Caitlyn was so broken and brittle that it was probably hard to know what to do with her. Killer Frost got pretty old after a while too. I think that there's a LOT of really cool directions they could go with Killer Caitlyn though, and aside from the next Wells I'm looking forward to her the most. 

The season started off really rough, but it's gotten better, and it has definitely improved over season 2. Season 3 definitely didn't get as good as the first season, but it's worked to address and move past the flaws in the second season. Hopefully season 4 will continue the trend and keep the showing moving and improving. 

 

Arrow: 

  Hide contents

Let's see, what did I order for the season finale? An hour of non-stop battle, confrontation, and showdowns between the expanded team Arrow and Chase's crew, with a decent finish to the flashback sequence. 
And what did I get? 
Pretty much exactly that!!! That was a great finale, far above Season 3 &4's. There was too much time on Felicity, Thea/Merlin, and Curtis, and a notable absence from the Ragman, but otherwise that was pretty darn awesome. Slade was storming fantastic, I Really hope he can rejoin the arrowverse. Perhaps the Legends could use Deathstroke?  

So.....how many dead are there? Here's who I think is still alive: 
Merlin (Offscreen death, there's no way he's actually dead.)

Felicity (As much as I hate it, it looks like they're trying to bring back Olicity) 

Lance/Renee ( They still have their story line with Renee's kid to tie up, they're not dead yet. And there's no way they'd kill off Lance without a proper send off) 

Diggle ( I mean...again, I don't see them killing him off without a proper send off) 

Artemis and the Al'ghuls ( I think it's likely that Artemis will be prominent in the first few episodes of season 6 as a minor villain, but will be locked away quickly or die. Talia and Nyssa...ehh, same reason as Merlin. ) 

Curtis? I'm not sure about him honestly, but he probably survived. 

So that leaves: Thea, William's mum, Slade, and capt boomerang who could have died. 
Thea makes the most sense to kill. Her character has been backing out for a long time, and it would punish Oliver well, while still giving him incentive to become closer to William.

William's Mum: Her dying would also be a good incentive for William to actually be on the show and closer to Oliver. I'm making the assumption that he won't be hiding in the background anymore and the showrunners want some young blood. 

Slade: I really hope he didn't die because there's so many interesting things to do with the character, but if they can't get the actor to commit to the arrowverse than they may have decided to just kill Slade off. 

Cap Boomerang: Meh, could be dead, could be alive, don't care. 

 

As a season, this is the best Arrow has been since season 2. There Have been issues, usually involving Felicity, but there have also been Reaaaaally good episodes and some great character arcs. 

 

With all three shows having their seasons done I'm going to rank them by best current season and by best series over all. 

This year's shows go as follows: 
Legends for it's huge comeback, great villains, pacing, adventure, and more likeable heroes. 

Arrow in second for it's huge comeback as well but poorer pacing and a re emphasis on felicity that no one wants. 

Flash in third for a better season, but one that was still filled with flaws and had a weak beginning. 

 

Over all: 
Arrow for two fantastic seasons, one very good one, and two poor ones. It's hard to be a long running CW show and not have rough spots, but Arrow has done pretty well for itself and shown that it can still shoot true. 

Legends for a pretty mediocre first season with nice highlights, and an absolutely Rocking second season that had very few flaws. 

Flash comes in third because the second season and beginning of the third season were just SO bad, and it hasn't improved enough yet to redeem itself. 

Like I said, I sort of resigned myself to spoilers, since I was THAT far behind in things, so...

I'm glad to hear that Arrow completed it's comeback. Season 5 was a big step up after season three and four, so glad to hear it kind of ended as a "Good" year for the show. I can wear my fanboy status with pride again!

[Dunkum]

2 hours ago, Left said:

This year's shows go as follows: 
Legends for it's huge comeback, great villains, pacing, adventure, and more likeable heroes. 

Arrow in second for it's huge comeback as well but poorer pacing and a re emphasis on felicity that no one wants. 

Flash in third for a better season, but one that was still filled with flaws and had a weak beginning. 

 

Over all: 
Arrow for two fantastic seasons, one very good one, and two poor ones. It's hard to be a long running CW show and not have rough spots, but Arrow has done pretty well for itself and shown that it can still shoot true. 

Legends for a pretty mediocre first season with nice highlights, and an absolutely Rocking second season that had very few flaws. 

Flash comes in third because the second season and beginning of the third season were just SO bad, and it hasn't improved enough yet to redeem itself. 

That ranking sounds about right to me.  for what its worth, this year, I would put Supergirl a bit below Arrow, but well above Flash and in overall rankings, it probably comes in last, but it could overtake Flash if it keeps improving and Flash doesn't.

 

season by season:

1. Arrow 2
2. Flash 1
3. Legends 2
4. Arrow 1
5. Arrow 5
6. Supergirl 2
7. Supergirl 1
8. Flash 2
9. Legends 1
10. Arrow 4
11. Flash 3
12. Arrow 3

numbers 1-5 are all pretty solidly great seasons of TV.  I don't think most people would argue that.  I almost bumped Arrow 5 up a bit just based on that Finale and how absolutely deranged the villain is.

6 is pretty good, though still with some flaws

7, 8, and 9 have their share of ups and downs, and I could honestly see this order changing depending on my mood at any given time.  basically, supergirl 1 is a mess with a few great episodes (depowered episode, red kryptonite episode, flash crossover), a perfectly cast lead (Melissa Benoist carried this show), and a bunch of annoying stuff all crammed in there together.  Flash season 2 has a fantastic first half culminating in the Christmas episode with the Trickster, then goes downhill in a very, very bad way. and Legends Season 1 has some great stuff (Snart and Sara, plus occasional bits from Mick and Stein) and some terrible stuff (every scene with hawkgirl, hawkman, or savage) all mixed up.

 

10, 11, and 12 are all just pretty bad.  Arrow 4 at least gives us Damien Darhk who is great, which is why it beats the other 2 here. Flash 3 is better than the back half of Flash 2, but only rarely rises above the level of mediocre.  Arrow 3 is just bad.

[Andy92]

I started watching this series on Netflix over the summer and finished season 5 today. Solid show. I enjoyed the first two seasons the most, but the second half of season 5 was a nice rebound from some of the stuff going on in seasons 3 and 4. I was pretty giddy during the season 5 finale...I enjoyed all of the character appearances in that one. 

[Andy92]

Anyone been watching Season 6? It’s had its ups and downs, but I really liked last night’s episode (Episode 19: The Dragon) that mostly featured Diaz. 

[Dunkum]

7 hours ago, Andy92 said:

Anyone been watching Season 6? It’s had its ups and downs, but I really liked last night’s episode (Episode 19: The Dragon) that mostly featured Diaz. 

I honestly haven't been.  I've had a lot less free time this past year, so of all the various arrowverse shows, I've only been watching Legends of Tomorrow, which I think is easily the most fun one.

[Andy92]

10 hours ago, Dunkum said:

I honestly haven't been.  I've had a lot less free time this past year, so of all the various arrowverse shows, I've only been watching Legends of Tomorrow, which I think is easily the most fun one.

Yeah I personally don’t like the show as much as I did in its early seasons, but I’ve still been watching it. It looks like the ending of this season is shaping up to have a lot of potential anyways.