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Most Sanderson-esque Magic Systems?


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Pretty much exactly what it says on the tin, we all know that Sanderson has a very particular style of magic with a scientifically rigourous approach applied both in universe and out, what other settings and magics fit the same general mold?

 

Which magic systems fit most closely with the Sanderson 'hard magic' approach? Which ones are most interesting to compare to his? What magics can you see working within the Cosmere and what setting are they from?

 

For instance one of my favorite 'magics' from any work is Alchemy from FullMetal Alchemist. The rules are simple, logical and clearly defined and everything the characters can do with it follows on sensibly from the initial premises.
There are occasional surprises and exceptions to the familiar rules but all of them are satisfactorily explained as the characters discover more about the laws of Alchemy and learn where the rules can be bent via loopholes. The use of magic, both as a tool of the characters and as an overarching aspect of the stories plot and mystery reminds me very much of Mistborn.

 

Alchemy itself is similar in many ways to Soulcasting, it's a 'magic' (everyone in universe regards it as a science) based around the transmutation and reshaping of matter, using various fuel sources such as tectonic energy or

 

Human souls in the form of a Philosopher's Stone

 

to do so.

 

Alchemy is governed by simple rules and principles

The main one being The Law of Equivalent Exchange 'for something to be gained  something of equal value must be lost'. In other words you can't violate conservation of mass and you have to convert things into similar things, water to ice is easy but flesh to gold is another matter entirely.

 

The actual process of transmutation is broken down in to three steps:

 

Comprehension:

 

Where you work out and understand the makeup of the matter you want to change and the mental 'equations' for the actual process

 

Deconstruction:

 

Where you use energy to break matter down into a malleable state

 

Reconstruction:

 

Where you rebuild the matter into the new form, assuming you got you equations right and didn't make the process back fire or 'rebound' warping and ripping apart nearby matter wildly.

 

To achieve this effect alchemists use 'transmutation arrays', circles contain glyphs and runes which provide a 'matrix' for the transmutation, like an instruction manual or program. The circle itself regulates the flow of energy used in alchemy, similar to the flow of matter and energy within nature.

 

Fancy transmutation array.

human_transmutation_circle_by_Solarifur.

Simpler one.

fma___alphonse_blood_seal_by_nirnaethedh

Practical ones.

 

Technically anyone can become an Alchemist but mastering the science usually takes years of study.

 

From those basic rules you get all sorts of effects, like reshaping the earth to make tools out of trace metals or barriers of stone, repairing buildings and machines or even altering the composition of the atmosphere to make it flammable which make for great fight scenes and creative non-combat uses.

 

(For added bonus there's even a Shard like entity behind the magic system named after a concept, in this case Truth...)

 

What would you pick?

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We did a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood marathon this weekend: we rewatched the whole thing start to finish, and I was actually thinking exactly the same thing. Transmutation even creates a glow, just like Investiture, and Truth totally works as a Shard, although I doubt its Intent would actually be "Truth"... Maybe something along the lines of Justice or Equilibrium? The other side of the Portal of Truth is basically that world's Spiritual Realm. Of course, if Alchemy were a form of Investiture, you wouldn't need any energy from Tectonic Plates and whatnot. The Transmutation Circles would work like metals on Scadrial or Aons on Sel, simply opening gateways to "Truth's" power. 

 

At the end, Ed sacrificed part of his own Spiritweb, rendering him similar to a Drab, since the potential to perform Alchemy is part of their Innate Investiture in that world. Homunculi are effectively Splinters, right? A bunch of Investiture pooled together which develops a sentience of its own.

 

 

It's surprising how easy it is to make Alchemy work as a manifestation of Investiture! 

Edited by Lindel
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We did a Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood marathon this weekend: we rewatched the whole thing start to finish, and I was actually thinking exactly the same thing. Transmutation even creates a glow, just like Investiture, and Truth totally works as a Shard, although I doubt its Intent would actually be "Truth"... Maybe something along the lines of Justice or Equilibrium? The other side of the Portal of Truth is basically that world's Spiritual Realm. Of course, if Alchemy were a form of Investiture, you wouldn't need any energy from Tectonic Plates and whatnot. The Transmutation Circles would work like metals on Scadrial or Aons on Sel, simply opening gateways to "Truth's" power. 

 

At the end, Ed sacrificed part of his own Spiritweb, rendering him similar to a Drab, since the potential to perform Alchemy is part of their Innate Investiture in that world. Homunculi are effectively Splinters, right? A bunch of Investiture pooled together which develops a sentience of its own.

 

 

It's surprising how easy it is to make Alchemy work as a manifestation of Investiture! 

 

I thought about this a lot actually, I reckon the tectonic energy might be something like Feruchemy or Lift, converting normal energy into Investiture maybe? Or it could be like color in Awakening, not the fuel but a necessarily catalyst. Or they could be wrong and tapping into something like the Dor, the Xingese Alkahestrians mention something called the Dragon's Pulse as a source of energy which seemed somewhat similar...

 

Father is definitely a Splinter imo, and the Homunculi are splinters from him, which in a roundabout sort of way makes Ling an equivalent to a Knight Radiant :P The Order of the Greedskins Oaths include "I want everything you can possibly imagine. I want money and women, power and sex, status, glory! I demand the finer things in life!" 

 

And that's it. That's all the oaths.  :lol:

 

I also think that the human sacrifices are, if not full Slivers, getting close to that, being people who performed Human Transmutation, touched the power of a Shard, and were left altered body, mind and soul.

 

 

For Truth I reckon Truth actually works quite well for him, he grants knowledge of the world and it seems like it's primary goal is to educate the people who try human transmutation, it gave Father a whole speech about how he had failed to learn about himself and how Ed (by trading away his Gate) had learnt the lesson he was trying to teach etc.

 

According to the author the reason he looks and acts differently is because it's a reflection of the person it's talking to, their own personal Truth that reflects what they need to hear and mimics their shape and personality. Which is why it always knows what to take that the person would value the most. So in away the Truth Ed talks to isn't the Shard itself so much as the part of the Shard invested in him.

 

I...may have thought a fair bit about FMA and the Cosmere.  ^_^ But really, it fits so well part of me thinks that Amestris must be on a Shardworld somewhere in the Cosmere galaxy, which then makes me want to see Hoid and Hohenheim getting a drink sometime.  :D

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(Other awesome stuff that makes a lot of sense.)

 

For Truth I reckon Truth actually works quite well for him, he grants knowledge of the world and it seems like it's primary goal is to educate the people who try human transmutation, it gave Father a whole speech about how he had failed to learn about himself and how Ed (by trading away his Gate) had learnt the lesson he was trying to teach etc.

 

True, but all the Shardic Intents we've seen are active. Ruin ruins, Preservation preserves, Endowment endows, Devotion devotes, (that one's a stretch. I'd say "Devotion is devoted" is more accurate, but you get the point), Odium hates, and Culivation cultivates. What does Truth do, though? Truth "truths"? 

 

It doesn't fit. It might seem that Honor isn't inherently active. But, in a way it is. Honor binds, but he also honors (in the sense that he "honors" oaths, etc). 

 

But Truth isn't something you can do. If I make a promise, I can honor that promise, but I cannot "truth". Perhaps a better Intent would be Enlightenment? 

Edited by Lindel
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Brent Week's the Lightbringer book's have a "hard" magic system and its super cool.  Each person draws in a specific colour of light, and they need to be see that colour to draw it in, then they can create Luxin. Each type of luxin has a unique mass texture smell, and thus some are better suited to making different things.

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Brent Weeks <3 (really wish he'd expand the Night Angel trilogy)

 

Paoilini's Inheritance Saga was interesting. Conservation of Energy/Intent/Commands blend.

 

Truth is a tricky concept. I think it would tie more in with Awareness/Sentience/Sapience

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Larry Correia's Grimnoir Chronicles series: imagine Ruins and Preservation exist in our world, with the Chairman (A Japanese dudes) became the first one to use and then Imperial Japan got its own Lord Ruler and America got Vin. (Oh and Kelsier is a detective). Seriously, everything in here reads like the original Mistborn, they even mentions the three worlds: physical, cognitive and spiritual.

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True, but all the Shardic Intents we've seen are active. Ruin ruins, Preservation preserves, Endowment endows, Devotion devotes, (that one's a stretch. I'd say "Devotion is devoted" is more accurate, but you get the point), Odium hates, and Culivation cultivates. What does Truth do, though? Truth "truths"?

It doesn't fit. It might seem that Honor isn't inherently active. But, in a way it is. Honor binds, but he also honors (in the sense that he "honors" oaths, etc).

But Truth isn't something you can do. If I make a promise, I can honor that promise, but I cannot "truth". Perhaps a better Intent would be Enlightenment?

Good points and thanks for the compliment :) I think if I were to do a crossover I'd keep him as being Truth but Enligtenment or something similar would also work. I do find it interesting how much of Alchemy works under Realmatics, they even have a three part model of their universe, body mind/spirit and soul (they use both mind and spirit interchangeably depending on the translation but it's still pretty close). Large parts of the system like swallowing souls to gain powers and immortality are right out of Awakening and Hemalurgy. They even have a similar life sense ability. Edited by VindicationKnight
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Until I started reading Sanderson's books magic was just magic. Now I get very frustrated when a magic system does not have a semblance of logic behind it. If it is just waving a wand and saying some funny sounding commands with no explanation on how it actually works I find myself turned off really quickly even if I like everything else about the story. 

 

 

Although not as complex as any of Sanderson's magic system I saw some similarities In The Powder Mage series by Brian McClellan.

 

There were different types of magic but one you gained abilities by ingesting black powder. Another "Privileged" could look into the Else (similar to cognitive realm) and harness it's powers by using gloves. There are also versions of these called Knack that have one magic ability (like a mistling almost). And then the Bone Eye which we only see one of but it is almost like voodoo. Another thing that I don't want to give too much away on even though there is a spoiler tag is the "Wardens" which reminded me a little of the koloss. The Privileged somehow change people to Wardens and they become physically very strong among other things later in the books. One downside unlike what you see typically in Sanderson's books it is never really explained exactly how it is accomplished.

Edited by StormingTexan
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  • 2 weeks later...

Until I started reading Sanderson's books magic was just magic. Now I get very frustrated when a magic system does not have a semblance of logic behind it. If it is just waving a wand and saying some funny sounding commands with no explanation on how it actually works I find myself turned off really quickly even if I like everything else about the story. 

you want a logical magic system look to rothfuss's king killer chronicles ( guessing you probably already read it, but still).

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Warding magic in the Demon Cycle by Peter V. Brett is very scientific and specific. Different wards do different things, and they have to be very precise in their positioning, location and what not. Although later on in the series this seems to be loosened a tad bit, and there doesn't seem to be as many restrictions.

 

Especially when Arlen starts drawing wards in the air. Like, whut? When did this become a thing??

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