The Heralds are Identity Spren and the Honorblades Are Voidbinding Fabrials

[Confused]

It seems strange to me that the Heralds would accept immortality in exchange for eternal torture. I don’t care how “honorable” the Heralds are (and many of them have as much or more Cultivation in them as Honor). No earthly religious figures endured so much over their lifetimes for their beliefs, let alone through eternity. It's just so improbable, even in a work of fantasy fiction.

 

So I sought an alternative explanation consistent with Roshar’s magical and planetary peculiarities. This is what I’ve come up with.

 

1.  The Heralds Are Identity Spren

 

Whoever the original Heralds were, they gave their memories and physical, mental and emotional characteristics (their “Identity”) to Honor to help maintain Odium‘s imprisonment in the Rosharian system. Honor created an “Identity spren” for each Herald and implanted that spren in each Honorblade.

 

When the time comes for a Desolation, each Honorblade seeks a human whose physical characteristics and temperament match their Herald’s “Divine Attributes.” The Honorblade then bonds that person to itself. In other words, the Identity spren/investiture attaches itself to that person’s spirit web at precisely the places necessary to make that person into their Herald.

 

As Syl has noted, the Blade itself is not a spren, but the spren within the Blade chooses a human to bond with. Through this investiture – more than the amount of investiture constituting a RadiantSpren – each bonded Herald acquires his or her non-surgebinding abilities that Brandon has alluded to (Taln’s quickness and hand speed, for example), as well as that Herald’s physical appearance, personality and memories.

 

2.  The Oathpact

 

The Oathpact was the agreement of the Heralds to fight for Honor in exchange for immortality. I believe they did not know how they were made immortal or that it would result in their perceived “torture.” Kalak’s interaction with Jezrien in the WoK Prelude (calling him the “immortal king”) supports this interpretation. Moreover, WEZ313 in an April 2015 post referenced a WoB that purportedly said "the Heralds blamed Honor for what happened to them."

 

3.  The Honorblades Are Voidbinding Fabrials

 

Honor designed the Honorblades to consume investiture, bind the investiture together as Stormlight (“Voidbinding”), and recycle the Stormlight. The Heralds are Voidbinders. Stormlight consists of physical investiture in gaseous form from each of Honor, Cultivation and Odium. It is the balance of the investitures that enables Honor to "bind the Void," and imbalances that cause Desolations. (Many storylines grow from this conclusion, and I’m still working through all the implications. Rather than to go into more about this now, may I say RAFO?

 

4 . Where the Heralds Go When They Don’t Die

 

The Heralds “go back” following Desolations even when they don’t die because the Honorblades consume and return each Herald’s Identity spren to the corresponding Honorblade.

 

5.  The Heralds’ “Torture”

 

A Herald’s “torture” between Desolations is the Identity spren’s exposure to Odium’s investiture in the re-forging of Stormlight through the Voidbinding process. The Identity spren may or may not participate in this process. The intensity of the intra-Honorblade battle between Honor’s binding and Odium’s divisive investiture is what the Heralds perceive as the daily rendering and regrowth of their “flesh.” (Recall that Stormlight includes Cultivation’s Progression surge, which heals the Heralds from that damage.)

 

6.  Who Is Taln?

 

Taln IS Taln. But the spren that constitutes his identity had been locked inside that Honorblade waaaay longer than it had ever been before. Like other spren, it lost much of its memory and other cognitive characteristics when it transitioned into the Physical Realm. It will take Taln some time to recover himself. (Who now has his Honorblade is another story…)

 

7.  The Stone Shamans Keep the Honorblades in the Mountains East of Shinovar

 

Of the many singular things about Shinovar, most striking is the absence of spren. One reason is that the Stormlight-bearing Highstorms have dissipated by the time they reach the mountains east of Shinovar, and those mountains scrape off however much of the Highstorms remain. I propose an additional reason: the investiture-consuming Honorblades are kept in those mountains. They create a barrier to ensure that no investiture of any kind slips through into Shinovar. (I address why that is in another part of my Theory.)

 

There's a lot more to say, but that's it for now.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Confused

[IAmTheBeard]

I think that the idea that the Heralds are a different person each Desolation has much to recommend it. It explains how "Taln" can both be and not be Taln and is the only theory I've seen for "Taln" not quite being Taln that explains (remotely adequately) why he's so crazy. I'm not saying I agree, or that I find it plausible, but I think this aspect of the theory is very interesting.

[ParadoxicalZen]

Indeed, it is interesting.

 

EDIT: I just think they're generally immortal

Edited July 18, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Mckeedee123]

Eh. It's very well thought out. Kelek does seem to have something specific in mind, however, when he thinks about his torture. Something about hooks digging into his flesh every day.

[The Honor Spren]

Eh. It's very well thought out. Kelek does seem to have something specific in mind, however, when he thinks about his torture. Something about hooks digging into his flesh every day.

I don't know why I find this so funny. Just the way you reference it, I guess. Like, "Eh. There were hooks digging into his flesh every day. No biggie"

[Seloun]

I'm not sure I really agree with the initial premise of the argument. I don't see immortality as the reward or benefit the Heralds gets from the Oathpact; rather, it's just a side effect to make the thing work at all.

 

It's also worth noting that most of the Heralds (and possibly all of them) seem to have come to conclusion that it was in fact a raw deal and they've reneged on it. I don't know why it's so hard to imagine that at the beginning of the Oathpact the Heralds might have been much more optimistic about it than later (especially if the nature of the cost was downplayed or presented in a heroic fashion).

 

If Kaladin was presented with a similar bargain (e.g. the ability to protect the bridgemen in return for a similar cycle of torment) I'd imagine he'd take in a heartbeat. Eventually he may grow to regret it, or decide that he wasn't truly aware of what the cost would be (it's tough to imagine eternity without experiencing it, I'd guess), but at the beginning it seems easy to think that he'd jump at the change. Likewise for Shallan. In the chasm scene, Shallan says:

 

 

She turned and looked to him. “The crushing guilt,” she said, “of being powerless. Of wishing they’d hurt you instead of those around you. Of screaming and scrambling and hating as those you love are ruined, popped like a boil. And you have to watch their joy seeping away while you can’t do anything. They break the ones you love , and not you. And you plead. Can’t you just beat me instead?”.

 

which is practically what we assume the Oathpact is (in practical consequence): you get beat so other people don't (or so you can sometimes prevent them from getting beat).

 

Basically I don't really see a reason why it's necessary to postulate the Heralds are anything other than heroic humans since it's so easy to see how the current crop of KR (in particular Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Jasnah, Szeth and even Lift) could easily accept a deal like the Oathpact (or what we are postulating the Oathpact is, anyway) even if they ended up regretting it after a couple of millennia. Heck, Szeth already seems to have made this deal to some extent - his loyalty to his oaths despite knowing that will keep him in damnation forever sounds very Oathpact-ish.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Seloun

[Confused]

McKeedee123:

 

Kalak and Taln are the principal sources of information about the Heralds' torture, in the WoK Prelude and Taln's WoR Interlude respectively. You have identified the passage, from the Prelude, that most questions this theory:

 

“Those fires, those hooks, digging into his flesh anew each day. Searing the skin off his arm, then burning the fat, then driving to the bone.”

 

            - WoK, Kindle p. 16 (emphasis added).

 

As you note, that’s pretty specific. Responses:

 

1.  The spren perceive themselves as still human, as I indicate in the OP. They are unaware of how they achieved immortality. Thus, the “hooks” and “earing” is Kalak’s human interpretation of what is happening to him.

 

2.  Brandon has also talked about how Odium has corrupted some spren through “holes” he reaches through. Wouldn’t you think that Odium is doing everything he can with his investiture to corrupt and/or destroy the Heralds? An interesting thread I believe Moogle started suggests that Odium has already done just that – he corrupted Jezrien to induce the Heralds to abandon the Oathpact. The following quote sounds more like Taravangian than Jezrien:

 

“‘Better that one man should suffer than ten,’ Jezrien whispered. He seemed so cold. Like a shadow caused by heat and light falling on someone honorable and true, casting this black imitation behind.”

 

- WoK, Kindle, p. 17.

 

3.  When Taln appears at Kholinar’s gates, he is described as follows: “His muscles glistened, wet as if he’d just swum a great distance.” (WoK, Kindle p. 1001.) Every time something pops up in the Physical Realm from the Cognitive Realm, it drips with condensation. (Shardblades anyone?) As does Taln. His spren just came out of the Cognitive Realm, found a host and transformed him into Taln. That’s enough to make anyone “glisten.”

 

4.  The analogy between the Heralds and the Unmade has been frequently noted. Brandon has stated that the Unmade are splinters of Odium. Shouldn’t the Heralds be splinters of Honor and Cultivation?

 

5.  While this appears to be a minority view, I just cannot get past the gross improbability that anyone, Herald or otherwise, would accept the most horrific torture imaginable – for all eternity – just because the Almighty asked them to. That sounds more like Damnation than Salvation.

 

So, no, the Heralds don’t seem actually immortal to me.

 

Seloun:

 

Seloun, Seloun, Seloun...It's been awhile. I should have expected you. Always a pleasure (sincerely!), since you test my ideas so successfully. Here goes:

 

A. I did not say the Heralds received a "reward" for their participation in the Oathpact. But it is a "pact," and they received something in exchange for their participation, whether wanted or not. I actually believe that the Heralds' "immortality" was just a byproduct of the creation of the identity spren. Honor could have selected and trained new individuals to give Honorblades to in each Desolation generation. He chose a different way.

 

B. The balance of your argument has to do with a "martyr mentality." Let's agree that people often regret decisions that seemed good at the time. (What happens in Vegas...) In this case, though, I'm not sure that the Heralds even knew they would end up fried throughout eternity. I'm not sure Honor even knew, lacking foresight as he did. Brandon has repeatedly said that Odium was NOT part of the Oathpact. Why would anyone think torture would be part of the deal? I don't think it was. I think it resulted from what the Honorblades were primarily intended to do -- suck up investiture so spren can't make the transition from the Cognitive Realm to the Physical Realm, thereby causing a Desolation. (There, I said it.)

Edited July 20, 2015 by Confused

[Seloun]

1. While this appears to be a minority view, I just cannot get past the gross improbability that anyone, Herald or otherwise, would accept the most horrific torture imaginable – for all eternity – just because the Almighty asked them to. That sounds more like Damnation than Salvation.

 

I don't think that they agreed to it because the Almighty asked them to; it seems likely they agreed to it because Honor told them they could save their world by doing so. Nor does it seem like it was actually an agreement for eternity:

 

 

Jezrien hesitated, looking at the sword, then bowed his head and turned away. As if ashamed. “We chose this burden willingly. Well, we can choose to drop it if we wish.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 17). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

Again I'm not really sure why this seems so unimaginable. Someone comes up to Kaladin (or Shallan or any of the proto-KR) and tells them that they can have the power to protect the world and their loved one in return for their personal suffering (something, as noted above, that Shallan specifically brings up as a desire); why is it so weird that they might agree, even if they end up regretting it later?

Edited July 20, 2015 by Seloun

[Kelek's Breath]

I don't have much to to say about this theory except this:

does this sound like it fits with Honor's intent? Picking random humans on Roshar at the beginning of each Desolation and shoving a spren bond on to them, making them Heralds and possibly having them killed at some point in the battles? Would Honor do that if the person was not aware, or didn't choose it themselves? I mean, I wouldn't necessarily want to take on Taln's burden because I look like him and have his temperament.

[soulcastJam]

I've always thought it likely that there is a planned end to the oathpact and desolations.  That there are conditions, which if fulfilled, will end the suffering of the heralds.  In other words, the heralds went into this as a temporary shield for mankind and they are hoping someone will take up the other half of the battle and somehow defeat Odium while the heralds keep him pinned.  Suffering for mankind would be an acceptable sacrifice if it wasn't for eternity.  Only after repeated cycles where mankind never completed what was required of them did most of the heralds give up.

 

I expect there are holes in that theory, so feel free to pick it apart.

[WeiryWriter]

I'm curious how you reconcile this theory with this quote from the prelude:

 

 

The figure in white and blue glanced toward him. Even after all these centuries, Jezrien looked young, like a man barely into his thirtieth year. His short black beard was neatly trimmed, though his once-fine clothing was scorched and stained with blood. He folded his arms behind his back as he turned to Kalak.

 

This heavily implies, to me at least, that Jezrien is still in the same body.

 

As for the Heralds being Splinters of Honor and Cultivation, that's not really how things work.  Splinters are not human (or human-like) they're bundles of Investiture.  It's also important to note that there is not a 1-to-1 parallel between the Heralds and the Unmade, there aren't 10 of the latter for example.