Shardcellist

Secret Societies of Roshar: A Comprehensive Guide

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What a very comprehensive, useful and accurate resource! I had forgotten that Helaran "sought out the Skybreakers"...

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Nice post! Thanks for putting this together.

 

Some possible info you may consider adding:

 

Major group you have missed: the Stormwardens. Lots to say about them. And Restares is a stormwarden.

 

There is also another group, the Vanrial who are a group of people that have collected information (after all, they have preserved The Way of Kings book as well as the dawnchant).

 

As for the Skybreakers, they could be hunting anyone that may bring about the Desolation, not just the proto-Radiants, so that is where hunting Amaram fits in. Although, Helaran's actions do not fit in with even a broken Nalan. Helaran, nonchalantly kills any soldier that is in his path. I don't think Nalan would sanction that. So Helaran being a 'Nalan Skybreaker' should come with an asterisk.

 

For the Ghostbloods, don't forget to mention minor members such as Kabsal, Lord Davar and his steward Luesh.

 

Maybe make a Wild Card entry, for people we know belong to some organization, but we can't decide which one. Like Shallan's mother and her friend, who may have belonged to either Ghostbloods or Skybreakers, or even another, yet unnamed group.

 

In the TWoK, there is another group mentioned by Sigzil, somewhere in the West, that also has collected info on the Radiants and awaits their return. related to the Envisagers. But I can't locate their name.

Edited by Kelek's Breath
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The Stormwardens seem to be closely allied/joined with the Sons of Honor, as Kelek's breath has indicated above. Especially since Amaram's notes were in Stormwarden glyph-script and the stormwarden was complicit in the murder of kaladin's men. Also don't forget that Gavilar did seem awfully close with Amaram.

 

I want to highlight the fact that at one point in TWOK, one of the ardents goes to great lengths to assure Dalinar that "they" hold him in high esteem. He then promises to be in touch. This is either another potential group, or an ardent who is part of the existing groups we know about. (As the parshmen are proving, slaves (the ardentia are too) who have their hand in everything make potentially dangerous groups...)

 

Interestingly, the person in charge of Taravangian's "Silent Gatherers" is also an ardent. We don't know much about him, except that he supposedly discovered the diagramists on his own, then joined them. To me, that just reeks of a spy being planted.

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Thanks, yurisses!

Kelek:

Unless I missed something big, the stormwardens are something different: a group of male scholars (the only such, due to Vorin restrictions) known for mathematically predicting highstorms and adapting glyphs as a phonetic written language. While there are certainly stormwardens involved with some secret societies, the organization itself is not one.

There is also the group Sigzil belongs to, along with Hoid: the Worldsingers. Neither they nor the Vanrial are true secret societies, but since I gave notice to the Ardentia and the Stone Shamans, I should include those as well. Good catch!

I'll work on updating the Ghostbloods. As for the Skybreakers, the only ones we saw Darkness going for were the Surgebinders. I'm trying to avoid speculation as such unless it's clearly noted and somewhat well substantiated, but your idea does have merit. Do you have any ideas on how we might phrase the first part better? As far as Helaran goes, there was some discussion a while back that might interest you about how since killing on the battlefield isn't considered murder, he could be justified as far as Nalan is concerned.

Great idea on the Wild Card section, as you put it, for miscellaneous individuals!

I don't recall another group like the last you mentioned. If you find anything, let me know. If not, I'm rereading The Way Of Kings right now anyway and I'll keep an eye out for anything about them.

Thanks for the feedback!

Edited by Shardcellist
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Could possibly add the 17th Shard to either the Wild Card section or their own. Granted we haven't really seen any actions taken in regard to main storyline

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If I remember that scene right. The ardent was working for one of the high princes in political matters. During that point in the book, Dalinar was still largely shunned due to this episodes during high storms and I'm pretty sure that the "they" was the high prince he worked for(can't remember the name). He was probably suggesting that if anything were to happen Dalinar could find himself an ally.

Edit: -.- my brain works faster then my fingers, so many typos to fix.

Edit2: actually nvm now that I thought it over it might have been another group.

Edited by TCshard
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Excellent work!  It would be nice if this thread could be pinned and the OP updated, in my opinion. 

 

A Rosharan Political Analysis:

Secret Societies

 

Ghostbloods, Diagramists, Skybreakers, Sons of Honor, Envisagers, Stone Shamans, Ardentia

 

...

 

The Ghostbloods:

 

Mraize tried to assassinate him at the end of Words of Radiance;

I believe Iyatil blew darts toward him.  The Ghostbloods have at least one nonlethal dart poison, so I don't know whether they wanted to interfere with his mission or kill him.  Presumably, if they just wanted to abduct him, they would have done so before he was with "Taln," but we can't entirely rule out abduction as a goal. 

 

·         Taravangian and Tukar: ...

 

In the same conversation, he speaks of a “creature in Tukar” that is either not human or not of the local species. I believe that of the current choices this probably refers to Nalan, Herald of Justice, but it could also mean there is something else that we have not yet seen.

Since Mraize refers to Heleran as seeking out the Skybreakers, Nale refers to his group as the Skybreakers and Nale travels widely, I find it unlikely that he is referring to Nale.  It seems to me that it could be Restares or some unknown player. 

 

·       ...
 

Significant Members:

·        

·         Thaidakar: ...

 

Shallan's father, the family steward and brother Kabsal seem to have been members also. 

 

The Sons of Honor:

...

Amaram: A devout Son of Honor, he has been seeking Heralds (namely the “person who calls himself Taln), gathering maps (presumably seeking Urithiru), and trying to get the Parshendi to transform into Voidbringers.

On the night of his assassination, Gavilar sent him on a mission whose nature he concealed from Jasnah.  Was this mission the thing that made Szeth "too late?"

 

The Diagramists:

Quotes:

"There ​has ​to ​be ​an ​answer​. What​ is ​the ​answer? ​Stop. ​The ​Parshendi​. One​ of ​them. ​Yes ​they ​are ​the ​missing​ piece. ​Push ​for ​the ​Alethi ​to ​destroy ​them ​outright ​before ​this ​one ​obtains ​their ​power. ​It ​will ​form ​a bridge."

Could this correspond to the events at the end of WoR?  Did the Parshendi singing form the "bridge" to bring the Everstorm to Roshar?  If so, then this part of the plan has already failed.  But in actuality the Diagramists actually tried to have Dalinar and Elhokar killed, which made the destruction of the Parshendi less likely.  So the Diagramist's and Mr. T's actions apparently make no sense.

 

  

Members:

·         Taravangian: ...

Danlan: a part of Graves' cell, involved with Adolin briefly and one of Dalinar's scribes. 

 

The Envisagers:

A cult, as Teft called them, that “believed in the Radiants, Heralds, and Old Vorinism; especially Old Vorinism.” They believed that if they could return the Voidbringers, it would bring back the Knights Radiant (comparable to the Sons of Honor in the preceding respects). They believed that if they put their members in mortal danger, they would manifest Surgebinding powers – a Snapping concept, of sorts. None did, but many (including Teft’s mother) died trying.

Teft turned the Envisagers in to his citylord, who executed them all. If other groups exist, he (and we) is unaware.

Sigzil refers to groups on the Yulay(not sure about name?) Peninsula as trying to bring back the Radiants, which could be similar

 

The Oldbloods have distinctive tattoos.  They once ruled Alethkar.  If the people who grabbed the Radiant weapons deposed the previous leadership, would the previous nobility have been the Oldbloods?  When was their rule relative to the Sunmaker's deposing of the Heirocracy? 

 

Shallan's mother was a part of some group, which led her and an associate to try to kill Shallan

Ialai has a spy network

Edited by hoser
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Recent WoB confirms that Mraize and Iyatil are worldhoppers.

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It seems likely to me that the ardent Pai, in the interludes was also part of a society. The way she specifically sought out the queen's ardents, and the chaos she caused almost screams that she is a diagramist. After all, who would be a better person to take control of a chaotic Alethkar that Taravangian? He supposedly cares for the people, as shown by his hospitals, and he would not let the people starve like Elhokar's wife.  Even if she is not part of the diagramists, I highly doubt she acted alone.

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With regards to the "creature in Tukar," there's a snippet in tWoK:

 

 

“The city’s pattern is central to the Emuli religion,” the ardent said. “They claim it is their ancestral homeland, a gift to them from the Heralds. And the Tukari are led by that god-priest of theirs, Tezim. So the conflict is religious in nature.”

 

I expect Mraize is talking about this guy, and he's a future player.

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With regards to the "creature in Tukar," there's a snippet in tWoK:

 

 

I expect Mraize is talking about this guy, and he's a future player.

Good catch, and a pleasure to see your handle as the poster. 

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Wow! wish I could give you more upvotes! This is awesome. Thanks.

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Could I just put out there that I personally believe Iyatil is a parshendi?

This seems as good a place as any.

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One more group that might be worthy of note is the ring, the group that Wyndle mentioned. We don't know anything about them other than that they seem to be a group of spren who instructed Wyndle to bond Lift. Not sure if they qualify as a full blown society or not but I for one find the idea of a society of spren very interesting.

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I think hoser hit all of the points I was going to bring up. This is a very good, well written summary--I hope you incorporate it into the Coppermind articles once you are happy with it. (Or give permission for someone else to do it.)

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The Ghostblood section has been updated. It should be accurate now.

Thanks, everyone, for your help! It seems I have quite a bit to fix and add - I am working on it, and I will get to it, but it will take a while before I am finished.

Ccstat: I'm happy to work on the Coppermind pages, but it will be a while before I can. Anyone that wants to use this as a reference for the Coppermind is welcome to, but I will get to that eventually.

Edited by Shardcellist
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Edit 2:

Added Worldsingers, Vanrial, Veristitalians, Stormwardens, Oldbloods, and Yulay groups.

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One more society that we are definitely due to learn more about: the Devotary of Sincerity, the original followers of the Book of Endless Pages.  I know they're a subgroup of the Ardentia, but they seem sufficiently distinct to merit mention.

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This isn't terribly important, but in the name of compiling the most exact set of information:

 

 

Tyn: An expert con artist that took Shallan under her wing. She was in league with the Ghostbloods but may not have been an actual member. She was in charge of the operation to assassinate Jasnah Kholin. Shallan killed her with her Shardblade when Tyn discovered her identity and tried to kill her.

 

It is known that Tyn was not a full member. Mraize tells Shallan this when he first brings up making her a member. Tyn was only an associate of the ghostbloods.

 

This is a very, very good overview though. I found it interesting to read through all the death rattles juxtaposed. Many of them seemed to be referencing things. Sometimes from the perspective of the person themselves, sometimes from the perspective of somebody important in the future.

 

Two possible meanings of rattles that popped out to me:

 

I see them. They are the rocks. They are the vengeful spirits. Eyes of red.

 

This is almost certainly a description of stormclasts in the desolations.

 

All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

 

I bet this is about Eshonai. It fits quite well. "All is withdrawn from me" probably references the fact that she was basically possessed by odium. This is also in line with her attacking her friends (alternatively her closest parshendi friends she killed or perhaps the humans she tried to make peace with), and standing for a cause she would have previously thought as evil. Also, the most obvious reference, "I raise my hand. The storm responds" is almost certainly a reference to the effects of storm form.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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“All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.”

I bet this is about Eshonai. It fits quite well. "All is withdrawn from me" probably references the fact that she was basically possessed by odium. This is also in line with her attacking her friends (alternatively her closest parshendi friends she killed or perhaps the humans she tried to make peace with), and standing for a cause she would have previously thought as evil. Also, the most obvious reference, "I raise my hand. The storm responds" is almost certainly a reference to the effects of storm form.

Actually it's Kaladin protecting Elhokar from Moash. Moash saved his life during some bridge run. Kaladin protects Elhokar who "killed his promises" (the chapter "The one who killed promises" is the Dalinar visiting Kaladin in prison and telling him about Elhokar sending Roshone to Hearthsone what ultimately effected in Kaladin breaking his promise about bringing Tien back home). Raising hand is stretching the arm out for Shardblade and storm responding is Stormfather accepting the words or Syl turning int Shardblade and falling into Kaladin's hand.

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Actually it's Kaladin protecting Elhokar from Moash. Moash saved his life during some bridge run. Kaladin protects Elhokar who "killed his promises" (the chapter "The one who killed promises" is the Dalinar visiting Kaladin in prison and telling him about Elhokar sending Roshone to Hearthsone what ultimately effected in Kaladin breaking his promise about bringing Tien back home). Raising hand is stretching the arm out for Shardblade and storm responding is Stormfather accepting the words or Syl turning int Shardblade and falling into Kaladin's hand.

 

Possibly. The link between protecting your foes and standing against your friends definitely makes the most sense with Kaladin. The line about storms responding makes the most sense with Eshonai, on the other hand, given that she literally did control thunder and ultimately summoned a highstorm.

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What a useful read this was, OP! Thanks for taking the effort to do this, as I learnt many things from it.

Anyways, I have a few questions on certain points. About the Diagramists, if Graves was really part of it, I would have expected him to give the information about Kaladin being/becoming a radiant to Taravangian, especially because the latter was looking for the man Szeth had met during his assassination attempt.

 

Also, I find it awfully strange how the Skybreakers are so effective in finding potential radiants and even more so, how they were able to find out about any crimes they have committed in the past. Are there any theories on how Nale is capable of that, like maybe he possesses some sort of power that can read in their conscience or something?

 

Finally, is there any speculation on the following quote from the diagram?

Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return

The fact that Taravangian knows the reason for the recreance will probably play a huge role in the story in the future, so here's hoping the secret doesn't end up being the betrayal of the Heralds. 

 

Oh and one more thing, Gavilar was affiliated with the Sons of Honour, wasn't he?

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What a useful read this was, OP! Thanks for taking the effort to do this, as I learnt many things from it.

Anyways, I have a few questions on certain points. About the Diagramists, if Graves was really part of it, I would have expected him to give the information about Kaladin being/becoming a radiant to Taravangian, especially because the latter was looking for the man Szeth had met during his assassination attempt.

 

Also, I find it awfully strange how the Skybreakers are so effective in finding potential radiants and even more so, how they were able to find out about any crimes they have committed in the past. Are there any theories on how Nale is capable of that, like maybe he possesses some sort of power that can read in their conscience or something?

 

Finally, is there any speculation on the following quote from the diagram?

Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return

The fact that Taravangian knows the reason for the recreance will probably play a huge role in the story in the future, so here's hoping the secret doesn't end up being the betrayal of the Heralds. 

 

Oh and one more thing, Gavilar was affiliated with the Sons of Honour, wasn't he?

 

The in-world book Words of Radiance notes that the skybreakers had an almost supernatural sense for divining whether a person was guilty or not. Nobody was quite sure why but it was a very real power. Kind of like how lightweavers were said to have flawless memories, something that Shallan proves to be correct.

Their sense of who is guilty may be quite similar to that of nightblood. Nightblood is very well suited to the order of skybreakers, when you think about it.

 

Also, it may be possible that Graves didn't really grasp that Kaladin had actually become a radiant.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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