StormyAngel

Perhaps This is TOO Obvious

60 posts in this topic

I wondered about the Simple Rules. They seemed like expenditures of energy used in desperation while I was reading. If you're running, chances are you are afraid or in a desperate kind of hurry, using a lot of energy. If you're shedding blood, you're most likely using a lot of energy and it flipping HURTS, resulting in that desperate emotion. Fire is hot, fast moving energy in itself that you're probably using to survive.Actually, all of these are a heated energy. Hmm.

What do we really know about the Simple Rules? They can be gotten around, yes. Are there really only three?

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I wondered about the Simple Rules. They seemed like expenditures of energy used in desperation while I was reading. If you're running, chances are you are afraid or in a desperate kind of hurry, using a lot of energy. If you're shedding blood, you're most likely using a lot of energy and it flipping HURTS, resulting in that desperate emotion. Fire is hot, fast moving energy in itself that you're probably using to survive.Actually, all of these are a heated energy. Hmm.

What do we really know about the Simple Rules? They can be gotten around, yes. Are there really only three?

Some speculate that the Shades are aganist the Entropy, and anyone who accelerate it

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Shades' and their multiple states remind me of

Warbreaker Spoilers

The way Nightblood kills his victims ands the way he corrupts investiture. Perhaps the Shades are the corrupted souls of all the people Nightblood's killed? Along with that Silver theory over in the Cosmere section, with Nightblood's sheath being silvery in appearance, there might be something here

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Well there are some similitudes.

But I really don't think there is a "strong" correlation, maybe just the same (or similar) phenomenon that occours on both independently Shardworld.

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I wonder what the AOE for the simple rules is. These Threnodites(I like it better than Threnodians, sry Alfa) really need to star sciencin'. I mean I know silver can create a border(blocking the simple rules? Or maybe the Shades can still detect it, but the silver in the border walls stops them.?). Really I'm just wondering if Yata is correct, saying you need to be near a Shade for the Simple Rules to take effect, or if it's effect on the FOH is pervasive.

Edited by The Ninja Yodeler
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I didn't read everything in this thread because its kinda long but I doubt that the Forests of Hell is any sort of afterlife... How can you die in the afterlife, and even if you ignore that how can a character escape from it? Isn't there a worldhopper from Threnody? It just doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't seem Sanderson-like. And wasn't there a different sort of afterlife already hinted at by Harmony? What if each world had its own afterlife, unique to the beliefs of the people living there. That would make sense to me.

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I didn't read everything in this thread because its kinda long but I doubt that the Forests of Hell is any sort of afterlife... How can you die in the afterlife, and even if you ignore that how can a character escape from it? Isn't there a worldhopper from Threnody? It just doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't seem Sanderson-like. And wasn't there a different sort of afterlife already hinted at by Harmony? What if each world had its own afterlife, unique to the beliefs of the people living there. That would make sense to me.

I don't know what books you have read so far, so I'm not going to spoil anything from another series. Suffice to say people can die and remain around in a certain form that I won't spoil for you either.

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I don't know what books you have read so far, so I'm not going to spoil anything from another series. Suffice to say people can die and remain around in a certain form that I won't spoil for you either.

Uhh, I think I have read all the cosmere related books, including all the short stories (and White Sand that Brandon's assistant emailed me upon request)... I know there is another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. Anyways, please enlighten me.

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another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. 

Yeah, it's called the Aether of Night.

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Yeah, it's called the Aether of Night.

Thanks!

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Uhh, I think I have read all the cosmere related books, including all the short stories (and White Sand that Brandon's assistant emailed me upon request)... I know there is another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. Anyways, please enlighten me.

Oh OK. In that case I meant (spoiler tags since its not Mistborn boards)

Kelsier and his Cognitive Shadow. Not sure if Saz was responsible for that, or if it just happens.

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Thenody has the peculiar to have Cognitive Shadows twisted in Shades and if someone were killed by a Shade he became a Cognitive Shadow (and of course a Shade).

 Answer to the Spoiler:

Sazed isn't responsable for that (maybe Leras but I am unsure). Kelsier became a cognitive Shadow before the Sazed's Ascension.

He pick up Preservation at the Leras's death. To keep the Shard safe until Vin can reclame it.

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Thenody has the peculiar to have Cognitive Shadows twisted in Shades and if someone were killed by a Shade he became a Cognitive Shadow (and of course a Shade).

 Answer to the Spoiler:

Sazed isn't responsable for that (maybe Leras but I am unsure). Kelsier became a cognitive Shadow before the Sazed's Ascension.

He pick up Preservation at the Leras's death. To keep the Shard safe until Vin can reclame it.

Oh OK I see. So its not dependant on a Shard to make Cognitive Shadows. That's good to know. Wonder why CogShadows are so screwy on Threnody?

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Oh OK I see. So its not dependant on a Shard to make Cognitive Shadows. That's good to know. Wonder why CogShadows are so screwy on Threnody?

 

It almost makes me wonder if there's something there in the Cognitive Realm that's blocking their sentience, similar to what the kandra experience as mistwraiths.

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I've always seen it as the specific phenomenon, like an infection. People don't turn into shades just because they died, it's only if you're killed by a shade. While it's possible there's some universal component that acts together, there is something unique in people killed by shades, not just people killed, period.

 

Silence worries for a moment that she might have awakened... I think it's called a Deeper One, or a Deepest One. I sorta see it as patient zero. Once, long ago, there were no shades, just a few Deepest Ones. The first people killed by a Deepest One turned into a shade, and now anyone killed by a shade or a Deepest One turns into a shade. It's basically like zombies. In theory, if someone led a concerted effort and simply killed off every shade, and if they were able to somehow kill or trap the Deepest Ones, the Forests would become just another wood. It's just that there are so many at this point that it's realistically implausible.

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Hmm just a thought... Deepest One... Jedeth from Elantris is refered to God Below at one point and in Shu-Dereth they believe he'll come from underground one everyone is united in Shu-Dereth. Maybe there's some connection?

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It's totally Cthulu.  Deepest Ones... Cthulu runs Threnody and that's why there are no shards there.  Everyone is too scared to challenge him.

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OK, simple and whimsical theory here, and probably wrong. Shadows For Silence in the Forests of Hell is a cosmere work, one which Sanderson specifically said he wrote in order to highlight the Cosmere afterlife a bit. Or the...kind of afterlife. Whatever it is.

 

Is it possible that he's just being ridiculously blunt, and the truth is in the title? Its the Forests of Hell. Therefore, these forests are the Cosmere's physical manifestation of Hell, the place where bad shardfolk go from all over the cosmere.

 

It's too simplistic, but knowing Sanderson's habit for putting the truth in obvious places...I find it hard to let go.

 

 

More importantly, I like the idea of trying to understand what this says about the cosmere afterlife by starting with this assumption. Instead of trying to figure out how this ties into the Cosmere afterlife by examining the shades' actions, let's examine their actions with the assumption that these are the shades in hell...

I think we had a WoB that Braize was Cosmere hell.

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I think we had a WoB that Braize was Cosmere hell.

 

Roshar hell, I believe.  I don't believe the Cosmere has a hell, per se.  

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Cthulhu gets mad when you spell his name wrong  ..ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

just sayin

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I have a (slightly grim) theory. I think everyone on that continent is dead. They just ended up trapped in the cognitive realm. "The Evil" was just death. They end up perceiving the world differently in order to keep themselves sane (or some form of illusion is at work). There was some sort of blockage keeping them from getting to the spiritual realm. Once people realize they are dead, they go insane, and in order to maintain the illusion, people perceive them as "shades". The shades are trying to get others to realize they are dead and help them clear the blockage (or something along those lines). The only issue is, they can't see anyone unless they break the Simple Rules. When they see someone, they try to talk to them, but end up killing them (possibly sending them to the Spiritual Realm).

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8 hours ago, Riversong said:

I have a (slightly grim) theory. I think everyone on that continent is dead. They just ended up trapped in the cognitive realm. "The Evil" was just death. They end up perceiving the world differently in order to keep themselves sane (or some form of illusion is at work). There was some sort of blockage keeping them from getting to the spiritual realm. Once people realize they are dead, they go insane, and in order to maintain the illusion, people perceive them as "shades". The shades are trying to get others to realize they are dead and help them clear the blockage (or something along those lines). The only issue is, they can't see anyone unless they break the Simple Rules. When they see someone, they try to talk to them, but end up killing them (possibly sending them to the Spiritual Realm).

If that was the case, it would have been said in the Threnody essay in AU. According to the essay the planet still has a form of perpendicularities, and there are worldhoppers from Threnody (Nazh). If everybody in there was already dead then worldhoppers probably wouldn't be able to exist.

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Yeah, Nazh pretty much shoots down the idea, interesting as it is. He even mentions in his Secret History appearance that one could choose to become a Shade, at least at some point in Threnody's past. And there's indications that he uses Shades to perform his 'grumpy James Bond' stunts.

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19 hours ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, Nazh pretty much shoots down the idea, interesting as it is. He even mentions in his Secret History appearance that one could choose to become a Shade, at least at some point in Threnody's past. And there's indications that he uses Shades to perform his 'grumpy James Bond' stunts.

Acutally he says "Shadow" not "Shade" so He probably doesn't talk about become a Shade (a subset of Cognitive Shadow) but a general Cognitive Shadow.

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6 hours ago, Yata said:

Acutally he says "Shadow" not "Shade" so He probably doesn't talk about become a Shade (a subset of Cognitive Shadow) but a general Cognitive Shadow.

I'm not sure it's a distinction with a difference in this case. He uses 'Shadows' as an oath, shade and shadow are derived from the same root, the book that introduced Threnody and is all about the Shades is called Shadows for Silence... and we have two sources implying that Nazh uses Shades in some way  But whether you think he was talking about a Shade specifically or a Cognitive Shadow more generally, he's explicit that it's something you could do deliberately, with attendant rituals. That should extend to Shades as well as more self-aware manifestations.

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