yurisses Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Vasher needs Breath, or any Investiture to survive. He can't force Breath out of others. It's unlikely (though possible) that he can suck in Stormlight without a Nahel bond or an Honorblade. He'd need a hack. Luckily, Nightblood, an Awakened object, can steal Breath, and can feed on Stormlight. Make the leap of faith that you can further Awaken an object to transfer siphoned Investiture to its owner, and you get a nice, plausible cross-magic hack. If we assume Vasher does need a hack to feed on Stormlight, this is reasonable enough a way. It's a long shot, but I guess you could Awaken, for example, a flute... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VindicationKnight Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's...not a bad idea, you don't have the Cognitive and Spiritual requirements to wield a magic so you create a preprogramed tool to do so for you. Going further, could you 'program' your Awakened item to use that Investiture without human interference at any step, a new kind of 'Awakened-Fabrial' hybrid... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) Also, Vasher showed in Warbreaker that it is possible to use auto-awakening to erase memories. Perhaps it is possible to use it to reprogram your spiritweb? For exemple, faking a connection with a selish region to use its magics? Edited July 4, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecohansen Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 WoR I-6 Zahel pulled up his blanket--damnation monks only got one--and turned over on his cot. He expected a voice to speak in his mind as he drifted off. of course, there wasn't one. Hadn't been one in years. So why is Vasher's new Awakened object so much quieter than Nightblood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 WoR I-6 So why is Vasher's new Awakened object so much quieter than Nightblood? He learned his lesson on that part. jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecohansen Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Also, a lot of people assume that one of the reasons Vasher went to Roshais to get a more ethical source of investiture. It would kind of defeat the point to use several thousand Breaths to create an object whose main purpose is to allow you access to non-breath Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Also, a lot of people assume that one of the reasons Vasher went to Roshais to get a more ethical source of investiture. It would kind of defeat the point to use several thousand Breaths to create an object whose main purpose is to allow you access to non-breath Investiture.He already had a decent amount though.Wait, a gemheart should be way cheaper to awaken if reshaped a bit relative to a normal gem right? Might not be relevant, just curious. Edited July 5, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posaune Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 It makes me wonder if you could awaken a spike to 'grant allomancy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Perhaps if it was soulcast out of wood or bone it would be safer, because trying to turn a spike into a type four awakened object would be risky, to say the least. Maybe it would convert the breaths used to awaken it into a sDNA fragment that allows your to use allomantic powers drawing from Endowment, not Preservation? But them you would have to hack it even more to use it without comsuming breaths, since Endowment's power doens't flow throught metal like Ruin's and Preservation's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Pulse: Metal objects can be made into Type III entities, it's just very hard. According to the Ars Arcanum, you have to be at one of the extreme Heightenings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 To make a Hemalurgically charged spike Awakened would require an incredible amount of Breath. It'd be something like trying to make a Drab out of someone already living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 To make a Hemalurgically charged spike Awakened would require an incredible amount of Breath. It'd be something like trying to make a Drab out of someone already living. Errrr... Do you mean Lifeless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VindicationKnight Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I doubt this is actually how Vasher is taking in Stormlight but the fundamental concept is interesting, could you create an Awakened being like Nightblood that would feed you Investiture and do certain pre-programed things with it? Is that essentially what Honorblades already are? A device like Nightblood that lets a normal person access and wield Investiture? The possibilities are intriguing to say the least. Edited July 6, 2015 by VindicationKnight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I wonder if you'd need a model, somehow. If you're not a Seeker, have never Sought in your life, how would you know how to Awaken something to use allomantic bronze? Intent matters. A normal Awakener couldn't tell a straw man to Fetch Keys, Vasher has to have something incredibly specific and very complicated in mind. Presumably, then, you couldn't just say, "Sense Allomancy" and think about the way someone described bronzepulses to you once; you'd need to actually understand the mechanics of what, realmatically speaking, a Seeker is doing and form a mental construct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Is that essentially what Honorblades already are? A device like Nightblood that lets a normal person access and wield Investiture? I think you're right here, the fundamental difference being that Nightblood is sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Arum Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) According to Brandon, Vasher could Awaken an object on Roshar if he knew how to use Stormlight to Awaken. In the same WoB he also basically tells us that currently Vasher only uses Stormlight to stay alive, so if you ask me, he doesn't need to hack Stormlight to simply use it to stay alive. This seems like an innate ability for him, or at least very simple. The difficulty is using that Stormlight to fuel his native investiture. From the Phoenix Firefight signing on Jan. 21st, 2015 (and unfortunately paraphrased): Q: Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things? A: No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to awaken things. source [Edit to add source] Edited July 8, 2015 by Titan Arum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yafeshan Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Doesn't anyone need their sDNA to use other types of investiture than their native one. I believe Vasher found out a way in centuries like he found a way to stay hidden Returned. He is as powerfull as the Lord Ruler Rashek to the people of Nalthis. He had centuries to study nature of investiure. He could figure out a away to use stormlight awakening but I think he do not bother. He just want to have nice time vacation in Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VindicationKnight Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Doesn't anyone need their sDNA to use other types of investiture than their native one. I believe Vasher found out a way in centuries like he found a way to stay hidden Returned. He is as powerfull as the Lord Ruler Rashek to the people of Nalthis. He had centuries to study nature of investiure. He could figure out a away to use stormlight awakening but I think he do not bother. He just want to have nice time vacation in Roshar. He has tried and failed so far so it's not that he doesn't bother. He's also not remotely as powerful as the Lord Ruler, even in the context of Nalthis. Given his personality, and the local issues about to go down, I also firmly doubt he's on Roshar for a vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpsmith Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The difficulty is using that Stormlight to fuel his native investiture. No, he can fuel his native investiture with Stormlight, otherwise he would not be able to feed off it what he cannot do is apply Stormlight the way Breaths are, which is not surprising really given the two investitures' forms natures: both are gaseous but Stormlight tends to leak out of stuff while Breath clings to it, even too much in certain cases as seen with the Lifeless. He has tried and failed so far so it's not that he doesn't bother. He's also not remotely as powerful as the Lord Ruler, even in the context of Nalthis. Given his personality, and the local issues about to go down, I also firmly doubt he's on Roshar for a vacation. Well he tried to awake stuff with Stormlight and failed to do so, that is not to say that he was not capable of discovering another completly new power using the stuff while trying to use his native power, Vasher is rather smart and has quite a lot of experience in the wielding of investiture(True, Titan Arum's WoB seems to say I am wrong on that, but since he himself said it was paraphrased I will hold the hope that Brandon just said not to awakening and nothing else). As for Vasher not being as powerful as TLR well I agree with Vasher as he was in Warbreaker but then there seems to be quite some time between it's events and when Vasher came to Roshar, so there is no way to know how many breaths he holds(either on himself or hidden in an object or another)which means he COULD potentially be quite powerful. Now he seems to be TLR's equivalent on one thing: the knowledge and understanding of the Nalthian magic system which he knows more about than pretty much everyone else still alive(except maybe his former colleague Ysteel and the Sequel's new big bad, damnation how I want the thing to come out) As for the thread theory: I could see objects being awakened to make use of other investitures and perform lots of things, mostly very useful ones but I think such things would require a very high hightening on the part of the Awakener and quite a lot of breaths, maybe not as much as Nightblood but still. I really like that idea, and the best thing is Roshar is home to a magic that can work very nicely with awakening: Soulcasting, the potential of a good Soulcaster and Awakener working together...(and now I want Jasnah and Vasher to meet, eh what could go wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) You should be able to store Breath in a rock I was intending to store Breath into a metalmind, store an attribute, and then withdraw the Breath to Return myself. But the same concept should apply here: Store Breath in gem. Leave it out in a highstorm; retrieve Breath. Now you never completely consume a Breath because it's getting reinvigorated. I AM aware there is a known effect where Investiture fights and blocks other Investitures. This doesn't seem consistent, but there's a very good chance it will render my above point moot. And thus completely destroy my Breath-Compounding megalomaniacal plans. Edited October 9, 2015 by Pechvarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Doesn't anyone need their sDNA to use other types of investiture than their native one. I believe Vasher found out a way in centuries like he found a way to stay hidden Returned. He is as powerfull as the Lord Ruler Rashek to the people of Nalthis. He had centuries to study nature of investiure. He could figure out a away to use stormlight awakening but I think he do not bother. He just want to have nice time vacation in Roshar. It would certainly seem so. On Roshar you need an Honourblade, Radiant sDNA, or to become a Radiant Squire in order to breathe in Stormlight. We do have WoB that Breaths are different in this regard, most likely due to the nature of Endowment's powers. Most likely he has a gem awakened with a command like "Be as my breath and gather Stormlight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 "Upon my touch, grant me the stormlight you hold." is more likely, I think, Ari. Now, as to powering other magic systems using Awakening, I think it would be impossible (or at the least insanely difficult), because of the required understanding of those systems, as has been illustrated before, you can't awaken something to grant yourself bronze allomancy if firstly you don't know how it works, and secondly you don't know what it feels like, since both of those would be necessary for the mental image linked to the command. It might be possible to imitate some systems. I'm thinking of Feruchemy specifically, think about the others yourself (can't take all the fun out of it for you guys). Imagine awakening a leather bracelet (or other miscellaneous organic object) with the command "Upon my command *weaken*, take my strength into you and return it to me upon my command *strenghten*." Ta dah: fake pewtermind. You'd have to have the appropriate heightening of course, since it's a rather complex command, as well as some understanding of Feruchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 ...don't forget a "stop" Command, or else once it does one of those things, it'll have to do one or the other forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Granted, but I was just trying to outline a general mechanism, not the exact command. And as a last measure you could just use the "your breath to mine" command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverblade5 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I wonder if you'd need a model, somehow. If you're not a Seeker, have never Sought in your life, how would you know how to Awaken something to use allomantic bronze? Intent matters. A normal Awakener couldn't tell a straw man to Fetch Keys, Vasher has to have something incredibly specific and very complicated in mind. Presumably, then, you couldn't just say, "Sense Allomancy" and think about the way someone described bronzepulses to you once; you'd need to actually understand the mechanics of what, realmatically speaking, a Seeker is doing and form a mental construct. But, what if you instead awakened a flute to sense investiture, and play a different note for each kind/form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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